texasgrillchef

Hey Chef, I noticed you don't mention the container types on your cache pages. What kind of containers are you using? Not for sure I understand your question? Up top I state what size they are. Micro, Small, Regular, Large. Or are you asking what the containers actually are? Well for waypoints I use laminated cards. All are about Double the size of postage stamp. I have one .30 ammo can covered in black tape. I have 2 waterproof containers similar to the otter box's &/or pelican waterproof boxes. About the size of a stack of 10 CD/DVD's. I have one that is a large spice bottle, and 3 that are large perscription bottles that you get from mail order pharmacies. In the Ammo can I have replaced the rubber gaskets with new, & everything that needs protection from water is in another waterproof container thats similar to the otter/pelican boxes. The spice container I made waterproof by installing a rubber gasket. The perscription bottles were allready waterproof. But to make sure they really were. I tested them by submersing them in 2 feet of water for 30 min. Everything remained dry. The waterproof boxes are of course waterproof so they needed no improving. TGC

The geocaching.com site points to the following rating suggestions http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/ When you create the entries for your caches, on the "Report/Edit a Cache Listing" page, right next to where you select the difficulty and terrain ratings, you'll find that link. Thanks... Someone gave me the link to that earlier. Although you have now told me where it is on the cache page!. DUH.... guess if it was a snake it would have bit me! Anyways thanks for pointing that out to me. I appreciate it very much. That will make it so much easier for me to decide how to rate my caches. I see that it isn't quite perfect. But it is a huge help. TGC

I wasn't going to comment on your original post about lack of experiance and hiding caches... but now you have clarified your point of view I feel like I should now. Normally I would agree with you. A noob doesn't normally have an understandin of proper containers, log books/sheets etc... However.... like everything in life... there are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule! Even this rule has exceptions! The thing is being that I have been in Search & Rescue and have been a very "outdoors" type of person for many years, proper containers is something I know very well about. Waterproofing is something I wish even MORE experianced CO's would think about but actually DON'T! I actually tested all of my containers by placing underwater for 15 min and checking for leaks. All of my waypoints are printed on laminated cards. As far as log books/sheets. Geocaching makes it very very easy. You can buy log books directly from Groundspeak.com &/or print out useable log sheets directly from geocaching.com. As far as containers go. You can even buy geocaching containers directly from Groundspeak.com as well. Now where a noob even myself might have issues is HOW, WHERE a cache/hide is made & all the considerations that should be made. This is EXACTLY WHY I started this thread. In placing my cache/hides my FIRST desire is to make the hunt fun, challenging without being to easy or too difficult for the average person. Although as a memorial to my father, I did create a puzzle/multi-cache to honor his being a math teacher. That one probably won't be any fun unless you like doing math! So am I to assume... that you don't hunt for cache/hides from noobs? TGC

Thank you so much for that link! That is exactly what I have been looking for. TGC

First off, I want to thank you for taking the time to offer some actual usefull contructive critisism, opinions and observations. I found them very helpfull.... I tend to be a very very curious type of person. I have thought of the obvious reasons that some caches weren't hunted for while others were. Time, availability and even the type of cache hide. I thought I mentioned this in my original post but it is possible I wasn't clear. I realize after reading some other threads that some people don't like lampost hides, or even park-n-grabs. Others don't want to take the time to Hikeing/Bikeing to a cache/hide. Two of my hides require hiking/biking to get too. I only asked part of this question as to see if there were OTHER reasons that I hadn't thought of. Most of the DNF's that were posted the geocacher in question admitted an error on their part & went back and found it later. Both after I had given them some insightfull help. I then tweaked my encrypted hint/description some to clarify the issues they had. I did this in hopes that future cache hunters would not have the same issues they did. However.... Yes.... if in the future I get a few DNF's that seem like might not be there. I will absolutely go check on it's status. I wont' argue this point as to if I agree or not about the geocaching/Groundspeak rules on this. I also won't argue about the bank situation and the banking industry. Other than we all know the banking industry has had it's issues lately! Including the bank in question. However... the statement in question has been removed from all my cache/hide postings. The postings in this thread that I made prior to this post... will be deleted/edited. That sounds logical. Almost how I hunt for cache/hides. Depends on what I am doing, where I am going and how much time I have &/or want to spend. One question I have for you. How do you find difficulty ratings? What I mean by that is how accurate are they based on your experiances? Overrated? Underated? That is the CO rated it more difficult or less difficult than it actually was? Thanks TGC

Ummmm you were looking at my wifes cache/hide I think. Not mine? It was/is her first cache. She isn't on the forums. She doesn't do any forums of any kind that I know of. I am a member of a good dozen or so forums. At least on those forums you come there to ask for opinions and advice. Personally... While I enjoy helping others. I personaly would find it very aggravating for CO's to email me and ask for my opinion on their cache hide. Some cache/hides that I have found I wouldn't have a problem with offering my opinion, others I would rather not be asked. So I am very hesitant about "Bugging" any of those who have made a find/DNF on any of my current cache/hides to ask their opinion. Now while I don't really like the thought of someone emailing me & asking what my opinion was of their cache/hide. I do NOT have a problem with people emailing me for HINTS. Now about the statement... [ORIGINAL COMMENT EDITED & DELETED] Statement in my cache/hide postings has now been removed. I do not wish to discuss the appropriateness of the statement in my cache/hides nor do I wish to argue the issue on this. That is why I have edited this paragraph.

That all makes perfect sense to me. Since the difficulty and terrain rating are 100% objective with NO types of guidelines to follow. (At least none that I have been able to find on geocaching.com) It is hard to determine what is the appropriate difficulty and terrain rating to put. I say that.. because what seems easy for me, is difficult for others, as well as some being easy for others that I find difficult! Same thing goes for terrain. I have climbed many a mountains. So what is easy for me is obviously more difficult for others.

While I am an "old fart" in the world, and have been around GPS devices since the late 80's and even been in a proffesion related to geocaching. (I was in Search & Rescue). I am still new at this sport. Therefore... I am asking for opinions. Trying to learn new things. Especially how people decide about which cache/hides they choose to hunt for and those they don't. Currently I have found about 34 caches... & have hidden 6. All have been found. Half have had several DNF's. From MY point of view. A DNF isn't a bad thing. Just means it isn't too easy, too many though isn't good either, as it can discourage others from attempting the search. Feel free to take a look at my cache/hides and read the logs as well. I find it interesting looking over my logs of my cache/hides at those who have attempted &/or found some of my hides but not others, & vice versa. I also realize that everyone has different needs and desires from geocaching. Some love lampost hides, some do not. Others love caches that are park-n-grabs. Others even love caches that show them something new & different. Some love a challenge. Because of this, I have tried to have caches that are different. I have three Park-n-Grabs that are in nice locations that will show someone something new & different. Both of those can be found in under 5 min. I have another that is easy to find, although will take some time and isn't a park-n-grab as it's on a nature trail. I have one puzzle-Multicache that I know isn't to hard, but involves math & some people dont' like math. I have done it as a memorial to my father, who was a math teacher. The last one... is rather easy, but does require some thinking but all waypoints on it are "park-n-grab" as well. I am just curious to get peoples opinions of various aspects of my hides. (Based on what you read on the cache page & who has logged the finds/dnf's for them) One example is someone with over 10,000 finds logging a dnf for my cache where someone as new to geocaching as I am didn't have any issues finding my cache. I will openly listen to any true constructive critisim, as long as your not rude or mean about it. Yes, I can take a little poking fun at & a joke as well. Don't have a problem with that as long as you can offer some honest advice. Thanks TGC

I really am not sure why your so upset about things???? Cache/hides go missing all the time. IT IS THE NATURE of this SPORT that causes it. Why do I say that... Well lets take a look at all the reasons a cache/hide can go missing. 1. Muggles can steal it. Maybe a finder didn't hide it back very well, maybe a muggle saw them. It could even be possible that a muggle saw the CO hide it in the first place. Some cache/hides are worth stealing. Some are not. In regards to this.... I have a few of my cache hides actually chained up with lock and key. It doesn't prevent them from being stolen. But it does act as a deterant. In life, you have to remember NOTHING is ever steal proof. No theft detterant system is perfect. 2. It is possible, depending on the cache/hide. That maintanance workers, or other employees by the land owner could have found it and discarded it, not knowing what it was. Especailly if we are talking about lamp post caches. Some cache/hides at Texas State Parks have gone missing becauses muggles and park employees found them & not knowing what they were, turned them into the Park HQ. 3. Natural Disasters/events etc... Cause cache/hides to go missing. I am sure after huricane katrina came & went that a few THOUSAND or more cache/hides went missing! 4. There are some cache hunters that for whatever crazy dumb reason, move a cache. Usually to what they think are the correct coordinates, or to what they beleive is a better hiding spot. They shouldn't do this, but it happens sometimes. 5. Animals. Animals have been known to destroy some cache/hides and make them go missing. Now at the time of this posting I only have 33 fines and 6 cache hides placed. I know I am not as "Experianced" at this as some others are. But even I am smart enough and logical enough to realize that when you place something out in the world, that there is a good chance it could go missing. Placing a cache/hide is like gambling. If you don't like to gamble, if you aren't willing to risk LOOSING your cache/hide for whatever reason. Then I agree, but all means... DON'T place a hide! For the most part. Most geocachers want to do the right thing & play in the right spirit of the sport. But good luck to you in your future endevors with geocaching. TGC

Yes, but the Queries have a limit of 500 caches. and when you select an area with 500 caches or more it bombs. And then when you view your Query... it still only views 20 caches per page. TGC

When I view caches in "MAP" mode. It will show up to 500 caches in the MAP window. When I am in "LIST" mode where it lists all the caches... It only shows 20 caches per page. I can then hit the link to go to the next list of 20 & so on & so on.... 20 is to few. Is their a way to just have it show all of them that are found? I realize that on some seaches this is as many as 8000, but at 20 per page.. thats several HUNDRED pages and as a result takes SEVERAL HUNDRED clicks to go through them all. If not... what about a way to list maybe 50 caches per page... or even a 100? Other websites that list say Books, or Movies, or whatever lists they have, have an option to list 10 or 20, or 50, or even a 100 of those items per page. Does geocache have this option for showing lists of geocaches? The reason I ask... is because in the "LIST" mode I can click the "CHECK ALL" button and then the "DOWNLOAD" button and it will download all 20 waypoints in a LOC file. What I want to do is simply and easily download all 10,000 plus waypoints for the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I travel all over Dallas-Fort Worth and never know on any particular day where I will be in the DFW area. Sometimes I have 30min to 2 hours to spare. It would be nice to hunt for a few geocaches when I am in the area. I don't always have interrnet capability where I might be. Thus no access to geocaching at the point in time to find the local geocaches. (By local, I mean within 1 to 2 miles of the location I am currently at, at that time.) My GPS uses a MicroSD memory card. Which I have installed a 16GB card. So I have MORE than enough room to store all the waypoints for DFW, Since my GPS and memory card can easily handle well over 100,000+ waypoints. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks TGC

This seems like a non sequitur to me. How is a rating system (or lack thereof) related to the prevention (or lack thereof) of these supposed "bad apple" COs? Well, you do raise a good point. The idea though (Assuming you have a good workable system, whatever that system is) that it would alert us to the CO's that consistantly have a "Issues" with a majority of their cache/hides on an ongoing basis. Once that is known, appropriate action COULD possibly be taken. A system used by some Health Departments with restaurants can alert the Health Department to resaturans that have a habitual problem with maintaining their restaurants to "Code". When this happens, the Health Department can initiate the process to PERMANTLY close a restaurant. Although, currently in our area it doesn't prevent the owner from opening a NEW restaurant in a DIFFERENT location. The Health Department uses a rating system from A-F. This rating system is of course based on a set of established rules, regulations & codes. Which ideally leaves out BIAS by the inspector. This of course can & is debated. In our area the checklist that the inspector uses is a simple YES/NO check list. Each item is given points. The points are then added up (Based on the answer) & then converted to the A, B, C, D, F system. There are few items on the check list that the (Incorrect) answer by itself can automatically generate a F rating. Maybe a system like this would work for cache/hides. Although I can see issues with this as well. Who does the inpecting? Who has the time do the inspecting? (No one probably). What would it cost & who would pay for it. The cost part (If any) would be a major issue as well. I am sure there are other issues with using this type of rating system that I haven't even thought of yet. One thing I will give ya though, is unless you have a good workable system finding those "Bad Apples" or even the good ones won't be an easy task. TGC

The answer to that question, is A. When it comes to legislation, local, state, or federal. I don't support passage of any legislation on any level unless I believe that passage of said legislation will actually have at least some positive outcome. Which in reality is very little! As far as making my "I Told You So's" & "It is coming" statements come true I wouldn't go any distance to make them come true. In fact. I would love to be proven wrong. PLEASE come back to me in 2 or 3 years and tell me how wrong I was. This is ONE of the FEW times I would LOVE to be proven wrong! If I attended events (of any type, not just geocaching) Maybe they could lay some of my fears to rest. Maybe. However... it was some of these geocachers and thier several hundred posts in several threads that lead me to start this thread in the first place. I want to say again.... I personaly have yet to come across any "BAD" CO's. The intention I had with my original suggestions, while maybe not the best suggestions. (Which I have now learned, Thank You) was with the best of intentions. The intent I had wanted to suggest was a system that would have 3 essential parts to it. 1. To single out those cache/hides that are of exceptional quality. 2. To single out those cache/hides that had "Qustionable Issues" that a cache hunter should be aware of. 3. To single out those Cache owners that have habitual "Questionable Issues" with a majority of their caches as to give notice to geocaching.com & cache hunters about their cache/hides. (A CO that has 50 hides and only has 1 or 2 hides that have "QI" is probably not a "Bad Apple". "Bad Apple" CO's on the other hand will more than likely have "QI" with a majority of the cache/hides) Currently... Restaurants in most cities in Texas, Especially in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Are rated & judged on a A, B, C, D or F rating (By the Health Department). thus showing prospective customers that the restaurant in question is either "Exceptional", "Questionable" or even a "Problem" which of course the Health department shuts down until the problem is solved. In some cities if your restaurant is shut down more than 3 - 5 times, The Health department can shut it down permantely. This system of course requires official inspectors. Now I am NOT suggesting that this is a workable solution for geocaching either. Just making a point. I just don't wish to see this sport die because of a few "Bad Apples". I was told by a Texas State Parks Superintendant, that the reason why Texas State Parks now requires a permit is exactly because there were PROBLEMS with geocaches being placed in areas that they shouldn't have been. They (The Park System) didn't want to rely on geocaching.com to correct the problem. So they corrected the problem themselvs by implementing the permit system. I am sure there are many other areas that they just banned the sport of geocaching all together. I am VERY glad that the Texas State Parks didn't ban the sport. They could have though. One north Texas city Parks & Recreation department has started to get quite a few complaints about geocachers and their caches. While they haven't implemented any permit system or city ordinances yet, they are having the city attourny look into how a permit system &/or legislation could be implemented. A couple of those complaints even led to the police being called a few times because a couple of the caches were located in areas that are in areas with high gang activity. Something that a geocaching.com reviewer may not always know about, or even someone searching for a the cache/hide. Texas isn't the most leniant of states when it comes to gang activity. I have to give geocaching.com & it's reviewers ALOT of credit for doing a VERY good job in maintaining a database of appropriate cache/hides, & taking QUICK action agains't cache/hides that violate the geocaching.com guidelines. My suggestions, comments, & statements are only made out of concern for the sport. But like I said many many times before. I beleive in prevention, not an after thought. The Patriot Act was an after thought. Should have been implemented when the first attacks on the WTC happend. Could have saved lives. The Amber alert system, should have been enacted YEARS before Amber was ever kidnapped and killed. Could have saved even more lives then it has allready. TGC

</div> Only those that have visited can vote. Those who rate caches must rate all of their finds for the system to work fairly and accurately. This should weed out those who just want to rate their friends' caches only and give them high marks -- there's more of a commitment to the website and appropriate ratings when you need to rate all your finds and distribute the votes to a standard deviation. More than one visitor vote is required for calculations. Once every few weeks the database runs these calculations and assigns diamonds to those items that rank the highest. I believe that only the top 5% of items in the database get a diamond rating. In my area, those that received the diamond rating deserved it. The items are high quality. Make the ranking system optional. If you are an owner that, on principal, doesn't like the idea of people ranking your caches, you can opt out. It just occurred to me.... Ebay has a ratting system for its sellers and buyers. I don't know how many use Ebay. But I do. I have a rating of 99% which is good. meaning that 99% of those I did buisness with on Ebay were happy with doing buisness with me. A similar type system might be tweaked for cache/hides. Maybe not, I do see some issues allready with the ebay rating system being ported over to cache/hides. It's just another idea though. TGC

Yes we have to start somewhere. I have made my own suggestion for a cache rating system a while back. I was more interested in being able to choose caches that would match my preferences, than weeding out "bad" caches. Of course there is NO perfect answer if for no other reason than there are lots of caches already in the field and at least some people that would not help with the system. At least that was one of the reasons given to me, " won't work, we can't expect people to make a few extra mouse clicks, or what about all the caches that haven't been "rated" yet? You might try a search on the forum for cache rating. Well IF there is a "WORKABLE" rating system of any type. It sure hasn't been found or suggested yet. That I can see. I personally havent' had a problem with "weeding" out cache hides that I want to find & don't want to find. My past life experiances have really helped with that aspect of geocaching. Someone who is geocaching at 18 though doesn't have quite the knowlege some of us old farts have had though. I also have nothing again't ANYONE who thought my suggestions weren't good ones. Trust me in this. It isn't the first time I have had a bad idea. I am sure I will have many more. I am sure I will have good ones too. I didn't get to where I am today with the life experiances I have had without having a few good ideas along the way. TGC

That is exactly why I posted my suggestions in a forum, for feedback. How else am I suppose to know what others think or feel about a certain suggestion or subject matter without asking about it or posting in a forum. Personally... like I have said several posts in this thread. I have not yet come across any "Bad Apple" CO's. I also haven't had any issues with any caches that I have attempted to find or have found. I have been hiking, rafting, kayaking, camping, hunting, traveling the world for over 40 years. I have also been using GPS devices in my auto and in the "Field" Since even before 1990. Before I retired as a Chef I was a Paramedic working on a Search & Rescue team for 10 years as well. My beagle sara is also a certified search & rescue dog as well. I have volunteered my time to many state parks over the years as well. Because of my life experiances as described, It doesn't take much effort on my part to look at the Lat/Long coordinates, comparing them to maps & other informational sources I have & thusly know if the terrain is what I want to deal with or not. Because of my S&R experiances for 10 years. My "Find" counts with & without the use of GPS that aren't caches are quite high. Trust me, finding a missing person on 10,000 acres of land is alot more difficult & dangerous than any cache hide could ever be. Oh BTW... even people with GPSr's get lost and require S&R to find them. My POV with everything in life is one of prevention. Prevent things before they happen, don't wait till it has happend. My house has never been robbed. Doesn't mean I don't have an alarm system in my house, nor does it mean I havne't gotten my concealed weapons permit and know how to use it again't an intruder. But if the geocaching community doesnt' want a rating system... then so be it. If the geocaching community doesnt' want to take any preventive action to lower the odds of "Bad Apple" Co's or to find those who are... So Be it... Just dont' come crying to me when the sky falls.... I have retired! TGC

Never said the sky was falling... yet... Just trying to tell everyone that it WILL! But hey no problem.. I'll lean back.. I will relax.... but when it does... Allow me to say "I told you so" when it does happen. As far as legislation goes... Im not supporting it, but since I do have connections with our Texas State Government, as well as with my local city government. I will say this, IT IS coming. TGC

Lets keep in mind a few facts. 1. Any legislation, rules, regulations that our government would or could enact about geocaching would probably come from those people that are NOT geocachers. Their PERCEPTION of our sport could cause them to presure the appropriate government officials to enact legislation, rules & regulations. It is PUBLIC perception of the use of steroids in Proffesional Baseball that has caused legislation, rules & regulations to change regarding the use of steroids in proffesional baseball. Those changes came about because of PUBLIC pressure... not pressure from the athletes! We are the athletes in our sport of Geocaching. Another Example.... To place a geocache on Texas State Parks, you DO have to get a State Park permit AND follow the RULES & REGULATIONS as dictated by the Texas State Parks administation. Now it is true that most of their requirments are also requirements required by geocaching.com. However they are still rules & regulations that a geocacher must follow or could possibly end up having to pay huge fines. 2. I never meant to imply that anyone at Groundspeak/geocaching.com doesn't do the best they can at eliminating or even preventing improper cache hides from existing. So far I think they have done a decent job. One other point to make about disclaimers and "common knowlege". McDonalds had a disclaimer about their coffee being very hot. Yet they were still SUCCESSFULLY SUED for 10 million+ dollars for having coffee that burnt the womans crotch. Doesn't matter what our opinion of that case is, & if she should of won or not. THE FACT IS... SHE DID WIN! I believe in prevention. I don't believe in doing things once it's to late. The Amber alert should have been in place before Amber went missing! Now the system has saved thousands of children, possibly even yours. Or you may even know someone it saved. It could have saved more though if it was in place even earlier. Why did we wait? TGC

Most of the angst I've seen regarding people FOR rating systems is people that want to be "protected" from parking lot micros and the like. I Can't speak for other geocachers. I personally don't find a geocacher who makes "Lamp Shade Hides" or Parking lot hides, (Nano, Micro, or otherwise) as someone being a "Bad Apple" either. I also don't think the "Lord British" who made a cache hide at 7000 feet under the ocean 300 miles off the coast of South America as being a "Bad Apple" either. I beleive that geocaching should be open to all types of hides, including "Novelty" &/or "Specialty" hides, Nature hides, Enviromental hides, Parking Lot hides, etc... As far as what the deffinition of a "Bad Apple" CO is.... that isn't for me to decide. That is something the Geocaching community should have a concensus on. Which as I have seen (At least at this point in time) no one can fully agree on! TGC

Either I communicated incorrectly, or you misunderstood my intentions. First... I am opposed to legislation in general that might regulate geocaching to the point of death. I usually am again't most all legislation in general about anything unless I beleive that it will have an actual positive effect in the real world. Examples of this include legislation about abortion, pro-life or pro-choice as I don't believe any abortion legislation in the real world would honestly change anything. I am a Non-Smoker, but I also don't beleive in most No-Smoking legislation as at least in the Dallas area... there isn't anyone around to actually ever ENFORCE it! There are many restaurants in Dallas that still let their diners smoke. Why? Because the only ones who can write tickets for smoking in restaurants is a Health inspector. Who are only on duty in dallas M-F 8am to 6pm! So NO I am currently not wanting any legislation regarding Geocaching. I would like us to be self-regulating like many other sports. Second, if you read my opening post that will tell you exactly your answer to "What put this bur under my saddle?". It was NOT from any personal experiance that I have had with finding &/or hunting any caches. Nor with any issues I have had with the caches I am currently in the process of publishing. 2 currently. 8 or 9 more on the way. As far as finding a cache that was too dangerous or illegal. Yes I did find one that was hiden in a spot that had (After he had hiden it) become in a spot that is now a "No Trespassing" area. However I have NO grief or issues with the CO on that hide. Why? Because he placed it before it had become a "No Trespassing" area, It wasn't HIS fault for that. I do NOT consider him a "Bad Apple". At a Texas State Park, there was one placed near an Alligator den of eggs, Obviously that den was built by the Alligator AFTER the cache had been placed. I simply notified a Park ranger at the park & he took care of the issue. That didn't make that CO a "Bad Apple" either. As he had no control over the Alligator. It wasn't his fault the Alligator built her den there. Neither of those CO's did I have a problem with. Things like that happen. I actually haven't come across any "Bad Apples" yet. But just because I haven't does NOT mean they don't exist, nor does it mean we shouldn't look for them. In another post, I beleive I also stated that we as geocachers can't even get a concensus on the DEFFINITION of what a "Bad Apple" CO would be. I will openly admit at this point in time I woudln't even begin to suggest a deffinition of one. Again I will say this... I never suggested that MY suggestion was a perfect cure all. But at least I was making a suggestion. TGC

Just curious... Are there any Geocachers out there reading these posts in this forum that happen to be a lawyer &/or are currently employed in law enforcement? If so... Whats your opinion on the legal liability (Criminal &/or Cival) of a CO & how, where & why s/he hid their cache? What would be the legal liabilty be if their cache were found with illegal substance inside? Or were placed near something illegal such as a "Pot Plantation". I am asking for a lawyer &/or law enforcement geocachers to respond to this question. Because only a lawyer can provide true legal opinions, & law enforcement can only say what they would or would not take action on, or report to the prosecutor/court system. I do have 2 close relatives I can contact for their opinions. One is an agent for the FBI, the other is a lawyer. Might be a while on replying back what the FBI agent has to say as she is currently undercover, or at least that is what my Uncle is telling me. (It's his wife). TGC

I like that idea as well. Netflix and Blockbuster also have a similar type thing. People who liked this movie also liked.... In fact Netflix just recently IMPROVED the Algorythym to improve the accuracy of that feature. Still doesn't handle those CO's who are "Bad Apples" though. Right now from the other threads I have read, we can't even get a true concensus on the "Deffinition" of a CO who is a "Bad Apple". Much less get a concensus on how we go about finding/rating them. TGC

Sorry, Actually I don't. Maybe It's because Im Texan and we being the state that uses capital punishment the most tend to have those types of POV's. I could be wrong though. Shouldn't matter how long I have been cachin or not. It's something that has happend in practically all sports & walks of life. One "Bad Apple" can spoil it for everyone. I could easily list off a dozen or more examples where there wasn't any laws regulating a particular "Thing", then after someone lost their life or was injured laws were passed to prevent it in the future. So I take it, that in life as well as with geocaching. You would rather wait until someone dies or gets injured before any action is taken to prevent more injuries and deaths in the future? So then I assume you don't really believe in preventive safety devices/laws until after someone has died or been seriously injured by the lack of any preventive safety device or law? Nope.... Never meant to imply that a rating system was the answer. That is EXACTLY why I POSTED my SUGGESTION in a forum. To see if others thought it would be a solution or not, or if someone had a BETTER idea. I did TRY to imply though that a SOLUTION was needed though. I just offered a suggestion as a solution for public discussion. Never tried to imply or say that my solution was the best solution. IT is also exactly why in my original post I asked if it was a good idea? Bad idea? Did it need to be tweaked... etc... Yes That is true... they would make great swag. But if I did. I would be arrested, since they are still working. I guess I could disassemble them and sell them as parts. That would be legal. Just keep in mind. I cant' speak for other states, but as far as Texas goes. Legislation (City & State levels) is coming to regulate our sport on PUBLIC lands. Like it or not. We can limit the devastation of legislation by self-regulating to a degree that can show law makers that we some control over the members of our sport. TGC

Hmmm, I do like the concept. Needs a little tweaking I think. But I do like the concept of 'Top 10 Profiling'. You also make a very good point about 'Bottom 10 Profiling'. It deffinately would bring on animosity and Im sure lots of forum flamings. I have seen similar things happen in many other forums of various types that I belong too. While alot of honest CO's would have a big desire to be in someone's top 10. We still have a problem with rooting out and letting potential hunters know about those CO's that are not playing the sport in a manner that would best reflect intentions of this game/sport. I only say this because it's those CO's that could COST the geocaching community the enjoyment of our sport. Legal legislation from your local, state and/or federal government could easily be imposed banning Cache hides on PUBLIC property. That would HURT our wonderful sport that I love and I know many others love as well. The LAST thing we want to hear on the national NBC/CBS/ABC/CNN news is that some child/family/person died or was seriously hurt while trying to find a cache/hide. This event would cause lots of problems for this wonderful sport. It wouldn't matter if the Cache hunter was in the wrong, or if it was the CO at fault. IT would still hurt our sport. I have seen so many wonderful things in life RUINED by a few idiots that then caused legal legislation to outlaw the enjoyment so many people had. Example.... motorized 3 wheelers. I had several. Loved them. I rode them reponsibly and I required anyone else riding them to do the same. However, as we all know a few hundred people didn't, then got hurt or killed & thusly, our federal goverment outlawed them. Now I have 2 - 3 wheelers sitting in storage that I can't ride and aren't worth a penny! As much as I beleive in Positive reenforcment of those CO's who do good. We MUST DO a better job watching THOSE CO's that DON'T. Because IF WE DON'T..... OUR GOVERNMENT WILL! TGC

I went and looked at a few caches both those I have allready found & a few I haven't seached for yet. I did notice that some showed people bookmarking them & others that haven't been listed in a bookmark. Personally speaking. I like most all types of hides. Depends on the mood I am in on a particular day. My only true wish is that a Cache/hide page would be more forthcoming about the "Type" of hide it is. I do realize of course, that sometimes that is impossible to do without giving away the hide! LOL TGC