[High resolution Attribute Icons - Can I use SVG?]

IANAL, but I've been informed that the icons are open source and publicly usable, not owned by GCHQ. Apart from trademarked/copyright names and terms used in geocaching specifically, the attributes (most if not all) are free to use. Someone could double check and verify that...

[Block Parties to celebrate 25th anniversary in 2025]

Oh I agree, I feel like they overdid CC events and handed them out the wazoo so they lost their sheen. This wouldn't be an idea for people to get the CC event type, it would be to categorize events that opt in to be a 25year event that aren't mega events, and an umbrella under which to award the 25year souvenir for people who can't attend a megabut can attend a 'special' event, without reducing the sheen of the BP mega.

Of course there would be criticisms of the idea, there would be of any idea, it seems here, unless the Block Party event type could be applied to any event worldwide even if there were only 1 attendee. That's (frankly, imo, ridiculous). It's all a grey area of differing opinions of attendee counts, accessibility, etc. Why 25? Why not 20 in a slower area? Too much, maybe 15? How about just 5 because there's only 4 cachers in 100km square?

I only suggested 25 people because it's on theme of 25 years, and it's not unreasonable an event size for a special event in most any area of the world. If you can get 24 people, you can get 25, and even if an average event is much less, you could hit 25 if you know even a few more non-geocachers.

 

There will always be "not good enough" complaints. How about trying to find a solution that isn't just complaining and ranting and that might rather be enticing for HQ to consider, which isn't contrary to and trying to change official plans already in place and announced? *shrug*  Brainstorm.

[Changing a Cache's Name or Title?]

Or if it has a specific word in it no longer there (but you might get thanks if the new name now meets any of those challenges :P)

 

Plenty of caches have been published with gibberish names merely to help qualify for some title-based challenge caches

[Block Parties to celebrate 25th anniversary in 2025]

We had Community Celebrations - those were accessible to the degree that people are desiring. We can't have everything. The Block Party was an extremely exclusive event that you MUST travel to Seattle for. Stop thinking that they're being exclusive by opening up that particular icon to mega events. A Block Party on every block would not be a Block Party (some would argue that awarding it to any mega event is also making it no longer a Block Party).  Where's the complaints that mega events are limited to 500 attendees in places that don't have 500 geocachers? Perhaps HQ could open up Community Celebration events again for non-mega events. This seems solely about the "Block Party" icon, ultimately. But that has been opened up for the world - wherever a mega event could occur (which is just as "exclusive" an icon/event type, by some of the arguments here). Once again, wait for whatever else is undoubtedly going to be announced to help more people celebrate 25 years (but don't quote me on that as I don't work at HQ). This one is for mega events.

 

I actually honestly think it would be a good idea to provide, say, Community Celebration events for 25+ people, then gift a 25 year souvenir for anyone who attends a CC event or a BP mega. That could be seen as more inclusive while retaining the rarity and significance of the Block Party type, which is not limited by rule to any region around the world and could take place anywhere the threshold for a Mega event is met.

Bring back the CC and provide a special souvenir for anyone who takes part in a 25 year celebration. win/win/win?

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

To followup - it's confirmed still recently that iOS apps do not have detailed access to satellite info, and any apps that show things like "satellite count" are estimating and 'guesstimating' based on the information that the API from the OS provides. This thread talks a bit about whether apps can access such data (and even mentions the aforementioned diagnostic app). There isn't yet a response from the user who said he'd ask the developer how they managed to provide the satellite count value if by some other indirect means.  Without having a jailbroken phone, I don't think Apple would knowingly permit a 'loophole' around something they seem extremely closed about since iPhone first introduced GPS capability.  Likewise, other apps for years have shown a 'satellite count' pseudo variable based on estimations from other gps readings, not based on a hard actual number provided by the device's OS.

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I rarely use my phone (an Android) to take coordinates, but on the odd occasion I have (using the create a waypoint function in the official app), I've observed the opposite. I don't know whether this is happening in the phone itself or in the app, but if it thinks I've stopped moving it'll stop updating its reading and the coordinates don't change even if I slowly move five or ten metres away. Then suddenly it'll decide 'hey, he's moved!" and update.

I would say that's the app being used. The phone obviously knows, in such a case, that you've moved past a threshold, so the gps is still active, but the app may be choosing to not make use of new coordinates until a difference has been met. But maybe it is the OS making that decision, dunno.  In any case, the phone is still GPS-active in order to know it's moved a distance. So somewhere between that and the app deciding to update the location visually is the hiccup, and I'd be surprised if it didn't have a setting somewhere to adjust... 

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

2 hours ago, tomfuller & Quill said:

The longer you stay on the spot averaging, (up to 3 minutes) the better precision you will have.

On phones, most phones do this infamous 'averaging' in the background at the OS level. As the app requests the OS's latest GPS reading, the OS is regularly updating its calculations in the background based on the satellites it has found.  If watching a map with your current pin location, it may hover and bounce because it necessarily places its center at what the OS has averaged and gives a circle of estimated precision, so in areas where coverage is rough that margin of error bubble is larger and where GPS detection is strong that circle is small and tight. But when visualizing that location on a map there will always be some degree of hovering over the 'averaged' centerpoint reported by the OS.

 

At least with Apple, apps that manually and repeatedly request the GPS data if in an effort to 'average' multiple readings are being redundant; you might think it gets better results but it really does no better - as long as the phone has already optimized its satellite reception of course.  To my knowledge, apps can request that iOS increase its GPS hardware polling and calculations in the background for higher accuracy, but if the app receives a GPS coordinate from the operating system, that's as 'forcefully' accurate as the phone will give. I can't speak for Android. And I'm only speaking from what I recall developers sharing about app development on iOS, and what I've read about GPS on iOS, over the years since I began with it in 2009.

 

Also never forget that for the context of geocaching, gps will always only be 3 decimal minutes precision, for as long as the website and data use a DDM(.000) format. So dedicated GPSs may achieve higher accuracy deeper than 3 decimals, but it's needless the moment the listing is created or you target a cache to be found. As long as the device in your hand can achieve technical accuracy within the 3 decimal minute region, then your device is good enough for geocaching.

[MOB Caches - a new tool]

uh, for example

1 hour ago, Keystone said:

We are instructed NOT to allow links from cache pages to unapproved third party functionality.  So, you'll need to clear this hurdle before anyone uses the new functionality on a cache page.

 

[MOB Caches - a new tool]

I think the distinction is that linking to an external site is okay with disclaimer; linking to a functional external website as well, dependent on the functionality. For mob caches that make use of geolocation on the web it's an exception I think that requires approval. That's how I interpret the guidance.

[Changing a Cache's Name or Title?]

4 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I had to get rid of words saying you could take a break and get a coffee at the local shopping centre on a multi cache of mine. Walking about 3.5kms and which went past the shopping centre. I wasn't advertising any individual business, as there were several cafes there, and a supermarket. My caching friends and I consider taking a break to sit and have a coffee an absolute necessary part of the geocaching experience (and there is a food attribute) I thought others would like to know where to get one too. Now I consider my words more carefully. I felt disappointed though, to reduce the caching experience by omitting the reference to where they could take a break.

Yeah sometimes I think the 'promoting a business' ethic can be taken a little far at times... it's an agenda to suggest that it's possible to take a break at a nearby coffee shop, without even naming anything? It's not a requirement or an essential, just an option.  That's pushing it I think...  Meanwhile events themselves can be in restaurants (and possibly, maybe, if the reviewer is convinced, name it in the listing).  One can attend without buying food, as the intent of events; but one can't put an idea that one can have a coffee break at a nearby store... But whatev, just venting, heh

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

9 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

On one recent outing, I forgot to turn it off before putting it into my backpack after finding the cache and didn't discover that until the next day.

Yep, there've been news articles about people finding lost devices, still working, and returning them to the owners; whether lost normally, or found deep under water... phones too. Part of me thinks they're promo gimmicks, but I'm pretty sure there've been some legit random findings of devices blowing people away when they still work. I would hope that a dedicated GPSr's real strengths (other than GPS) are durability and battery use; given their dedicated use context. Phones demand much less physically, so accessories add any desired features to push them into a similar context.   But today's vanilla phones are getting pretty freaking tough out of the box.

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

7 hours ago, lee737 said:

I can... but when navigating, especially over a longer distance, I don't want to have the thing in my hand running non stop. With the GPS I lock the screen and put in pocket, further down track I take it out of pocket and look at the screen... no face ID to unlock, then choose the app, then wait for the GPS to settle.

 

I think that entirely depends on your app, not natively the phone (unless there is no sufficient app on the phone brand you have). Cachly on iOS has no issue with this. Navigate to the cache and you can sleep the phone in your pocket but the GPS will remain active, and you can turn on notifications with a fence so you get a buzz when you're as close as you like. I have my watch connected so I can hike along a trail and get a buzz whenever I'm w/in 20m of a cache, while targeting the last on the trail.  Buzz - open phone - immediately in the navigation/map screen as desired - gps never 'lost'.

 

1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

There is still the battery problem. The GPS's battery lasts longer and spare batteries can be carried.

 

Remember that phones are doing way more actively than dedicated GPSrs which are almost universally thriftier at power use.

But apart from bad outing planning (like going out without being fully charged) I've never had a battery problem with my phones that wasn't solved by either being close enough to my car or an outlet to charge when convenient if absolutely needed, or else if on a long day trip away from any power source by having a battery pack. Not a juicepack that itself needs to recharge when dead, but a battery pack that provides USB power, for which you can swap out batteries you may be sharing with other devices (like another GPSr if you have one).  But rarely have I ever had to make use of that. 'Phones' these days are a lot better at battery use specially if you know how to optimally use the phone to extend available power (and not to an uncomfortable detriment of usability).

And hey, if you're out with friends away from power, no need for everyone to drain their batteries. If everyone's going to the same place, as long as as few as at least one person is navigating, everyone else can save power.  If I used a GPSr, I would be turning it off because it just seems wasteful to keep it running, even if it is very efficient with battery use.

 

These are age-old criticisms of 'phone' use, and people who them regularly just kind of shrug it off because we know it's not nearly as big a deal as people tend to make it out to be Not when you know how to use your device (whether it's a phone or a dedicated gps).  We get used to the device we prefer, because we've learned and accepted what it takes to use, with its unique benefits and drawbacks - and every device has them. 

You see the same things happen in big business with competition. New tech? Loads of small companies startup. But if there are multiple ways to accomplish something effectively, typically you'll end up with the big 2 or 3 competitors who 'do it right' but are different from a fundamental level, and each accomplish what they need to accomplish well, despite hard critics on either side. That's why we have Apple & Android, Windows Mac & Linux, Coke & Pepsi, Netflix & Prime & more, etc etc.

 

Use the device you like. Stick with it as long as it does what you want the way you prefer. No one's "daddy" is better, they just look different, have different skill sets, and tell different dad jokes though all equally bad. =p

[Mobcaches functionality is gone?]

They are fun to do and a technical marvel, however similar to Jigidi they also need a good amount of code and tricks to thwart cheating. That's why this one lasted as long as it did.  It worked sufficiently well to get people to do it more than the work to hack it   Good job ChileHead, thanks for the fun addition to the community.

[Geocaching FTF Filter]

On 1/27/2024 at 12:52 PM, Keystone said:

As a premium member, you can set up a Pocket Query where you check the box saying "Have Not Been Found."  Remember that the results of your Pocket Query are available in the official Smartphone apps, just like any Lists that you create.

This.

And, you can view the map preview link of the PQ without setting the PQ to run, and then view that link at any time to see a view of all the unfound caches in the chosen region to see if you're near any  

[Virtual Rewards 4.0]

For the next round (if there is one), instead of "giving one" to anyone with 10+ years premium, how about make that a requirement for the opt in. As a thank you for the long-term community, still require active/favourable caching history/ownership, but you're not in the running if you're not a 10+ year subscriber...

[Virtual Rewards 4.0]

I only received one virtual so far, and not this round. But I wanted to provide an experience with the visit to the location as well, so my Virtual is at the top of the tallest publicly accessible active fire tower in Ontario, or Canada, can't remember. It's a higher D knowing that climbing the stairs might be difficult for so, but the task to count the stairs both lends to the D rating and gives people fearful of heights something to concentrate on   At publish it was also a rare virtual DT. 

That's the kind of virtual I love to do. Sight seeing is one thing, but when the Virtual provides an experience to remember, that's a big up in my books.

[Leap day DT grid]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:20 AM, JL_HSTRE said:

I question whether it is physically possible to do all 81 D/T ratings, if properly rated, in one day.

In theory, sure could be done.

Cover the D's with puzzles of accurate rating, get solved coordinates for 81 caches that are not difficult mentally to find.

Cover the 5T's with a short 9-cache paddle.

Cover 3-4.5 T's with a trail of tree relevant climbs.

Cover anything less along the trail with perhaps a bit of bushwacking, or whatever 'feels' accurate for their T's.
 

Ontario has I think quite a few 81-cache runs; many are arguably inaccurate, but we have the regional rating habits to make pretty accurate DT rated series, with many forests, lakes, rivers, trails, close enough to each other to provide what most would consider accurate DT ratings for a full 81.

 

Of course everyone knows a difficult 4.5 terrain tree climb still can't hold a candle to a 4.5T multi-night wilderness trek to a wild and remote backcountry geocache. But is the T accurate for both? That's a whole different discussion I would say a full grid in the latter mindset wouldn't be feasible, not unless all 81 are within range and basically all high T's are still placed close to each other.

 

But theoretically, I do think it's possible.

[Difficulty / Terrain rating changes - What would you do?]

Years ago there were discussions (and likely others earlier) I remember... I still think that an optimal system for finders of caches that can have data changed while used in historic stats would be to capture any editable stats and store along with the Find logs. There's your historical data. But that's not really feasible as that's a lot of data to capture per log (high data, low calculation).  A changelog for each listing is possible, but then you need functions to effectively recreate a listing as of a specific date (low data, high calculation).

 

Thankfully Project-GC covers some of this with their DT History lookup tool. You can look up caches you've found and see when/how DT values have changed. Know you qualified for a challenge in the past, but on logging the checker shows you don't now? Now it's provable

- https://project-gc.com/Tools/DTHistory

- https://project-gc.com/Tools/TypeHistory

- https://project-gc.com/Tools/SizeHistory

 

With these lookups available, it's supporting the idea that a cache listing should be as generally accurate according to its owner's judgment to the current state of the intended experience for the sake of someone setting out to find it.  And thus they can decide whether it's changed too much and relist a new cache listing, or to edit the existing one to nudge it a bit, without concern over numbers-chasers' stats changing.

[Calculation of FP % is incorrect]

Here's a way it could happen to be up to date, and I don't think FPs are stored this way:

* Post a find log, and if PM, choose to add a FP to the log.

* No longer a PM? Your FPs are still associated with your find logs (you can remove, but you can no longer add)

* Find a cache, then want to add a FP? Go to the listing, and add it (only an option if you're PM and already found it), which associates the FP to the log.

 

Metrics:

1. Total FPs added to all logs (current PM or not doesn't matter)

2a. Filter out non-current-PM-logs

2b. Re-count FPs (now current PM logs), over total PM logs = Current PM percentage.

 

There's no way as mentioned to determine who could have given an FP and didn't on past find logs without hefty date-based filtering, so the percentage can never be truly accurate as a general count. So make it the context of current PM only. Yet we still want to see total FPs.

- Total FP count: #

- Current PM FP percent: PM-FP/PM-Finds %

 

And tying the FP to the log, not as a user-to-cache data point, means that Find logs can be deleted and the above numbers will still remain accurate. The only PM-check will be for the current percentage when the log count is reduced to current PM-only users.

 

If the count and % are calculated live, no issues.

If the numbers are stored asynchronously (counts and % stored, not calculated live with every view), then passively trigger the FP recalculation on:

* Add/Remove FP

* Post/Edit/Delete Found It log

* And (depending on available cycles) on serving a cache listing detail (web or mobile) where a Found It logger's PM status has changed (may also require a new data point if not already existing)

* Edit listing (for COs who really want to force-update the FP status if it seems inaccurate)

 

[Block Parties to celebrate 25th anniversary in 2025]

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

I believe you are wrong with the statement that HQ could not determine the geocaching makeup of communities worldwide.  Project-GC can show this data, so for sure HQ can pull the same data.  They can determine how many registered players there are, how many have been active in the last 12 months.

You're describing analyzing the data, not determining the geocaching community. So no, they don't determine the geocaching community, they can only promote the hobby around the world as best they're able, and let the local regions do anything special or unique.  But this is now getting into evangelizing geocaching to the muggle world, and not about the nature of the celebration of 25 years of geocaching with Block Parties, available to any location that accomplishes hosting a mega event. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

The question remains, knowing that they take place in a limited number of locations, why then did they feel the need to attach Block Parties it to a Mega/Giga?

Maybe because they hope that people will step up, being excited about the possibility of hosting a unique instance of a rare event type, and rally the community together to create a mega if there isn't already one to become a BP, which itself will draw attendees because it's a 25 year celebration event, and they're nowhere near as common - both by location and by date - as regular events.

 

Ultimately the ball is in your court to see the glass as half empty and blame HQ, or half full and get motivated.

 

 

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Imho you severely underestimate how tiny the geocaching communities in some countries are

Quite the opposite. We have at least one forum regular who consistently makes it well known how sparse and weak his local geocaching community is and how unfair some of their promo decisions feel. And obviously there are countries and regions that have almost no geocachers. So what about those ones? Should they be allowed to host an "event" and have it an "official" Block Party with 5 attendees? Just to be fair?  You're in an arbitrarily sparse region. You're basically arguing for an imbalance and unfair implementation of Block Party events that also reduces its rarity and value, were it to be implemented on a bell curve favouring arbitrarily sparse regions. And who makes that call? How many regions do they have to analyze to say which deserve this easing of the mega qualification? Who's going to be the fall guy to thumb up one region and thumb down another, and be hated by those communities? Because if they just let any event be a BP, no one would be happy. The threshold for Mega event is already an established bar.

 

I'll just go back to your best options - rally and hope to achieve a nearby mega event if you can't travel sufficiently (as would be more necessary with a Seattle-only BP), OR, wait to see what else HQ has in store to celebrate 25 years that is more accessible, OR take a year and save and plan a trip to a BP Mega event of your choice that's feasible for you to attend, and make journey and adventure out of it.

 

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

47 minutes ago, lee737 said:

That's all I do.... 'We found the cache 10m south of indicated GZ', or 'we found it at S234 E872'.

 

Yep and I miss the alternate coordinates addon with the clearly displayed coordinates. When I do that, I bold any gps/location details for other people to more easily pick out a potentially better reading if they're skimming, just as I typically do. I irk if I read something vague like 'expanded my search and found it' - at the very least, provide a distance estimate from where you zeroed out And I don't care if 4 people provide alternate coordinates; if the posted coords seem bad, any number of 'second opinions' is more helpful...

Also, I have zero qualms about posting 'better' coordinates when it's clear that the cache owner provided intentionally fuzzy coordinates (like follow the instructions from the posted coordinates) - in most every case coordinates are there for a purpose, to take you to something AT the coordinates. Off the top of my head, Letterboxes, Multis, and Mysteries are really the only ones where there could be an exception for the listing (puzzle/offset). I think everything else has precise coordinates implied by its posted.

[What's the etiquette around maintenance of caches you don't own?]

Keep in mind that 'etiquette' will always produce for you a variety of opinions and personal etiquette, because as you say there is a lot of nuance. Very rarely is there a blanket statement that can apply in all cases. That's why (as we say) they are "guidelines" not "rules" (but in practice there are many that can be enforced as rules, by reviewers or HQ).

 

What's more important is looking at the spirit of what the guidelines are saying about things like maintenance. On one hand, cache owners should do their own maintenance always. Yet, it can be a nice gesture to do a quick minor fixup, unless the CO explicitly wants to do their own always. Yet, with explicit permission it could be okay to do a bigger maintenance run for a CO. And yet, doing such proxy maintenance too much could lead owners to being lazy and feeling it's right/okay to allow regular proxy or community maintenance and not take any responsibility for their own hides. And yet, in some rare cases such a maintenance strategy is permitted, unusually by HQ at the highest level... but there is a TOU document that all players and cache owners agree to, which is assumed to be read and agreed to with every new listings; and arguably most people have not say to read the agreement before checking that box.

So you see there can definitely be a lot of nuance to 'right' and 'wrong' etiquette   Be ready for dissenting opinions on some matters (usually a personal etiquette that one feels is the 'right' way that's in conflict with someone else's)

 

 

[Block Parties to celebrate 25th anniversary in 2025]

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

You happily read right past the fact that Groundspeak's definition of worldwide is limited to Noth America, Europe and (parts of) Australia.

No, I explained that worldwide means equal opportunity worldwide - They cannot grant a mega to every region. But every region has the equal opportunity to host one, if they are able to accomplish that feat. There is nothing HQ is doing to give any region an unfair advantage. It's up to the local communities to make it happen.  It's not going to be equal outcome, but it is equal opportunity, worldwide.

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

However, if HQ says we are celebrating the game, I would like to think they would be so kind to try and include all players, not just those a stone's throw away from a Mega event.

There are plenty of other ways people can celebrate 25 years of geocaching. HQ deciding to allow mega events to become a Block Party is, so far, one way they are officially celebrating 25 years. Undoubtedly there will be others. Have patience.

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

why does HQ opt to adopt an idea that locks out players from entire continents?  Why do you support and defend this?

I'm not defending what you call "locking out players from entire continents". HQ is doing no such thing. HQ cannot determine the geocaching makeup of communities worldwide. And HQ cannot/should not cater to the lowest common denominator. They are opening the door so that more people can attend a Block Party. They cannot do an "everyone or else no one" solution, that's ridiculous. As I mentioned earlier, now more people can attend Block Party than before, and even that has people upset that the original Block Party is no longer as rare. Those would rather you essentially never be able to attend a Block Party the way you're talking about your potential to attend one in spite of blowback from people who want the Block Party to remain rare and historic. HQ is making it easier for you; it just seems it's not easy enough, at least yet, and that still bothers you.  It's unfortunate, but don't be blaming HQ as if they're "locking you out" of attending.

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Guidelines give us 3 months at best to reach Mega status, not an entire year.

There are two ways to have an event become a Block Party for 2025.  One is having a mega this year (300 attends) and planning for the same event next year, and the other is having enough Will Attends (300) on next year's event to bump it to mega status. As the mega can take place between Jan 1 and Dec 31 2025, it's actually up to close to TWO years to promote the event to at worst gain 300 Will Attends before submitting the application for a Block Party

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

A little salt in a wound doesn't hurt anybody, right?

It's never fun to train for a marathon and not win a medal or even get a participation trophy.  But we can't all get everything we want.  And it's generally just better to be happy for people who did earn a reward (not that a Block Party is a 'reward to be earned'), and to hope for better fortune next time.

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

I agree  all the more reason there just needs to be better training/tutorials, or better UI or programming to make the understanding of the spirit and technology of geocaching all a bit easier for the newbie, especially if newbie to 'modern technology'... Whether it's official or grassroots. I'm all for that  (as are most social media 'influencers' for lack of a better term)

[Are GPS's more accurate than phones?]

33 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

Almost guaranteed a person with a relatively recent smartphone providing bad coordinates is not due to the simple fact that they're using a smartphone.

 

It's not the fact that it's a phone, it's the app that's being used on it.

 

Exactly  

And there are quite a number of apps. So it's still a matter of knowing how to use the device, plus the software, whichever is preferred (and still applies both to a phone or dedicated GPSr brand)