thebruce0

Self imposed and obviously lack of commitment. See this for appropriate level of commitment: Well, you know, the fiance and her family will never deserve a lesser commitment...! Therein lies my self-preserving reasoning.

Perhaps edit the subject to indicate there's a bug? Then they can respond officially as to whether it's intended or is a bug to fix (and hopefully fix it)

Thinking is good, but VP made a good point that didn't stick out until said: There's only a heart, but "Report a Problem" is far more visible. Maybe just add "Give a Favorite Point" with the heart. Then it's a little more clear than an easily missable icon in the corner. *shrug*

I have my Iron Bingo cache with a challenge that is grandfathered (pre-M), but I provide an added challenge to complete the whole grid for a geocoin (now about to be produced!). Incentivize for completing an "unpublishable"/extra challenge! So yep, for sure there are ways they can be done outside of official challenge caches

Camping for 3 days this week; no caches in the vicinity; smack in the middle of the window; sad face...

haha, sounds like the streak reporter on the back end only updates on the posting of a new geocache log, not when an AL stop is claimed. But the souvenir progress (and rewarding) uses the current streak status, so it's an esthetic bug that could confuse people if they're only claiming Locations towards the streak... eg, only ALs for a week: "I found ALs for 7 days straight and got the souvenir but the app says I don't have a streak!"

The cipher coin has reached its first goal! And in the first day! Would love it if you'd consider backing - this is an ambitious long-game geocoin with plans plans plans...!

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Yes, when the algorithms for souvenirs are custom coded for specific statistic accomplishments, and only additive - that is, on posting a log it returns true so reward the souvenir - you can't just 'reverse' it without double checking pre-reward statistics, unless the souvenir state pre-reward was recorded in a changelog. But then you need to re-run the check to cover any possible legitimate changes between mistaken-reward and legitimate reward. It all depends how the backend was programmed, and from prior discussions about souvenir issues, it doesn't sound like it's intended to be reversible.

As I recall, the hidden dates had been changed to 2000, and that's when TTO2 decided to find them and statistically earn the Jasmer count. They've since been changed back to 2002. There's another cache or two on that oldie list that is arguably illegitimate as well with relevant changes since actual original publishing. But with old caches from those first couple of years and very little information stored with their activity back then, it's not surprising there's some confusion; and whether one goes by strict statistical numbers or ethically sound conscience about what is "legitimately old", well your mileage may vary TTO2 said they were in it to ruffle feathers, and they did. He doesn't care that he's back down to 4 now.

Yeah the fix may not be easy; if they remove the souvenir it has to be for people who have it would have not found any APE cache. Special case souvenir data correction.

I wonder if the APE Cache souvenir ID is similar to the new one. Clearly it's gotta be a typo on someone's part.

Yes, Adventure Location 'completions' don't use geocache logs and are a different function entirely because they're not geocache listings. But functionally similar on the backend - the souvenir check is done when you save a cache log (educated guess) and based on the log posting date. Similarly, the souvenir check (if it's applicable) would be done when you save a location completion. So when it comes to streaks, the check would be done any time you "+1 smiley" to your stats (not the day after you have zero +1 smileys to mark the end of a "completed" streak).

But that could be done whether posting them for adoption is done automatically or not. Whether there's a little flag on a listing saying "adoptable! contact me!" or not, the CO would still effective 'approve' the person who wants to adopt it (whether via messaging or via in-person chat) And again, they could do that in person if they want too. And of course, if the CO chooses to do that, that is on them, not the fact they can flag it visibly as looking for an adoptee. Right and that's what I'm saying (as far as I understand the suggestion) - someone sends the request to adopt, just like someone might ask in person. Apart from the fact that it's quite possible there will be more requests coming in from the visible flag, after that point everything's the same.

Technically, that'd only be true if they're considering a "streak" only after the day you don't have a find posted. But stats always show your day streak count. So the system knows if you have a current consecutive streak of x number of days. Given souvenirs are typically awarded on posting of relevant logs, I think it's safe to say you should receive it the moment (knock on wood) you post your 2nd day's first log, 7th day's first log, and 28th day's first log.

It's the 3rd and the 4th for the streak, so it's the first day of possibly earning the streak, and it depends on whether they made it logs only or included ALs, and the 4th is a holiday in the US. So... Patience. But, this is a good example of why more complexity in a hobby introduces more margin for error and bugs. If geocaching were still just finding containers, signing logs, and posting records online, it'd be soooo much simpler

Well if the rules are "A CO needs to set their cache to adoptable" and "A CO needs to approve an adoption transfer request", they're hard lines that don't apply to auto-setting "abandoned" caches to an online list. Really the only addition to current setup is, it sounds to me, making it publicly known that you'd like to adopt out your cache (rather than only privately/personally finding someone yourself). Everything else would remain the same, if I understand the suggestion correctly. If the CO doesn't feel comfortable adopting out the cache to someone who 'applied', then it can be ignored. No need to say yes. It'd be the same as someone at an event overhearing you're aiming to adopt your cache, and approaching you to ask, and you just being courteous with a thanks but never going through the process with them. Or, in this case, if the CO just ignores every request that comes in, the cache falls by the wayside and whatever happens now to the listing would happen to it still. No difference. Again it's just that the desire to find someone to adopt the listing is made public, and every other step is still up to the CO. Dunno. How does a CO currently decide they feel someone is acceptable to adopt their cache? It's quite subjective. A CO could adopt it out to their 16 year old niece with 2 finds if they want.

I would say the adoption wouldn't happen unless the CO approves. If you want to adopt, you have to convince the CO you can. If the CO doesn't care, then it'll just get archived anyway. Cache ownership should never change without the CO's final approval. No way for a person to just 'collect' caches up for adoption.

I think it's only the leaderboard-based ones that have the noon UTC start and end, the others go by calendar date. That's my reading of it anyway... For this daily streak challenge that's how I'd interpret it as well.

I haven't been holding back from posting DNFs. But I wonder how many people look at that number and want to reduce the dnfs! But take that to mean, well, just don't post as many We've seen that debate before, whether to post DNFs. I hope people aren't discouraged from posting DNFs just for the stats, but still stick to posting them if otherwise wouldn't - but instead make more effort to find caches and hope for a better find rate. heh

I think a couple of the biggest issues are this... you can't really apply one strategy equally worldwide. There's always going to be exceptions, and major counter-arguments depending on region and local community. I think what it comes down to is always going to be your local geocaching community. Automated systems are going to come with the significant margins for error, so the next best is manual systems with local folk who know their local region - and community. And that system is in place. It'll never be perfect, but no system will. Across the board, HQ can encourage a proper ethic and spirit of the hobby, but when it comes to specific areas, the community needs to help itself, and the local reviewers sort of set the bar for what the community will expect. I've seen NA/RAR logs on remote caches with DNFs and very few visits, and they go ignored by reviewers, while one of those posted on an urban cache is dealt with almost immediately. That's a choice and judgment the reviewer is making. So they are the ones setting the pace. A community needs people who want to regularly find and place geocaches. A community needs owners who have reasonable maintenance plans for the cache(s) they place (urban or remote) A community needs reviewers who have a thick skin and can put a foot down on the tough end of maintaining a reasonable standard, and a way with words to help steer people in the right direction when there are questions, concerns, and angry rants. HQ can only do so much. =/

Yep, I thought that was a good one. Encourage people to do something that's a little less common. Broaden some horizons. Personally it wasn't hard for me because my region is littered with all of those. But with so many reportedly new cachers likely using their phone in urban centers, those points probably required a little more effort

What about commuters? Is it really just hike/bike, or wasteful gas? There are SO many ways people may be participating without feeling forced, or feeling wasteful. And priorities is so very subjective. To tell someone their priorities are out of whack for do something they may enjoy that you may otherwise not is very projecting. Let people decide for themselves. I would agree if it comes to practical, obvious, or moral or ethical decisions - like skipping your daughter's recital so you can drive an hour for the lamp post. Still, it's not my business to tell you "you bad!" It was your choice, and I assume you've chosen to deal with the consequences - if any - of your decisions. Still this all assumes some of the worst circumstances to 'participate'. I don't disagree that they make it easier for people to be less honest about their habits. But I would not say they encourage cheating. (tho "cheating" is a different discussion) The souvenirs are there. You can do them. Or you can skip them. They may entice us to weigh the value of the effort needed to earn them. But they do not encourage cheating. People who cut corners and are dishonest about their logging in order to earn them - they have made their choice. I certainly don't agree with their practices, and if they do things that are against enforceable guidelines, then they should be reported and dealt with (as per any discussion about TOU violations or whatnot). If their stats are affected illegitimately, well that's their problem not mine. Having said that, I'll reiterate - I am all for finding ways to encourage experiencing the adventure - not reducing geocaching to a numbers game and missing out on amazing experiences (and potentially stepping on others along the way as people find ways to "win" the rewards instead of taking in the totality of experience cache owners are putting out there).

Because I was responding to (as quoted) "Not sure why, but container no longer as stated in attributes by the CO." Thus: if the attribute was "Not a tree climb" (and it is) it would apply. But if there is NO attribute, then nothing is stated in attributes about tree climb or not. I was responding to what I quoted.

"wasteful inefficiency" Well, again, this only applies to people for whom it would be excessive use of resources to participate. For many it may be a matter of a healthy daily walk to the nearest cache, or a daily bike ride. So why must it be "wasteful inefficiency"? It's a very biased perspective. Absolutely Gripe away! It's a completely understandable perspective. Just remember it's a perspective. The other direction is seeing it as a challenge, a goal-oriented "can I do it?" activity. It only becomes a "chore" when the value of having no longer outweighs the effort required to attain. It's no longer something you want to do. So don't do it. Culture today is so taken with trophies and rewards that many feel (effectively) that it should be a kind of right to be able to have what is offered; that the work required should not outweigh the value of having. "Everyone gets a prize!" is a cliche meme (from participation ribbons to Oprah's famous moment) but depicts the mentality well from the absurd extreme. Yes, when it comes down to it, you don't have to do anything. Remove the value of having the souvenir(s) and you're no longer in this limbo space of fighting your conscience to defend what you no longer want to do to have something that ultimately has zero value to you. On the other side of the fence, you have people who see it as a chance to have fun, be healthy and active, aim for and achieve a goal, etc. So, who's right? *shrug* I'd be more upset about easy pointless souvenirs like finding 1 cache. That's the type that reduces the inherent value offered for the souvenir rewards because there's literally zero effort in doing what is already being done. (tho arguably, it could take effort if someone's closest 1 cache is 100 km away) So it still becomes a subjective position based on your own personal anecdotal experience and ability. Instead of seeing it through tunnel vision eyes (legitimate as the concern may be), see that it can also be a positive for so many others. All that said... I'm also kind of bugged that the souvenirs so clumped together this month all seem to be far too similar and kind of clashing, and I'm not surprised there's so much angst about them And I am all for finding ways to encourage experiencing the adventure - not reducing geocaching to a numbers game and missing out on amazing experiences (and potentially stepping on others along the way as people find ways to "win" the rewards instead of taking in the totality of experience cache owners are putting out there). So I'm definitely not saying these are fantastic souvenirs!