New York Admin

A list of regions may be found on NYS DEC website here. Clicking on any of the 9 regions will take you to a page with phone number, email link and snail mail address on the right for that region. I just added this information to the list in my profile so it will be easy to find as this thread scrolls away.

For 6 years now we have not been permitted to place a geocache on lands managed by NYS DEC Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources (New York State Wildlife Management Areas). Today this has all changed thanks to the efforts of two geocachers, snowfreak37 and dirtfan. They have been working with the Director Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources on behalf of all geocachers in New York to once again open this valuable geocaching resource to geocaching. There are however a few specific limitations put in place by the Director. Most importantly, and this will address all the rest, before a geocache may be placed the Regional Wildlife Manager for that area must approve it in writing. Its important you save that letter, scan and upload it to a reviewer note on your cache page during submission. Without a copy of the letter of approval reviewers will not be able to publish your cache. The letter from the Director of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources allowing us to once again place goecaches in New York State Wildlife Management Areas may be viewed here. This is a giant leap forward for us with there being 85 Wildlife Management Areas in New York State comprising of more than 200,000 acres. As always New York State land issues may be found in my profile. NOTE: Please cross post this note in all local geocaching forums and mailing lists.

Happy Holidays to all and may there be a micro hanging in your tree.

Happy Holidays to all from the Empire State.

I spoke this morning with the park manager at Glimmerglass in regards to the geocaching permit. The New York State Office of Parks Recreation and Historic Preservation, the office that governs New York State parks, has recently developed permits for numerous activities within the park system. The largest share of those permits are $10.00 for a 12 month period. The young lady Luckess had spoken with was of the understanding the geocaching permits were one of the recent $10.00 permits which it is not. After speaking with the park manager he assures me there is no charge for a geocaching permit in Glimmerglass or any other New York State park. He also added that’s not to say there won’t be in the future but that would be dictated by Albany and would be state wide. Luckless, you should visit your prospective cache site and take the coordinates. Then print the permit JMBella linked to above (fits best on 14 inch paper) and fill it out with all the required information. Please read the permit carefully as all the rules and instructions are included. Take the permit and a park map indicating the approximate position of your proposed cache site to the park office or mail to Glimmerglass State Park, 1527 County Highway 31, Cooperstown, NY 13326. After the permit has been approved and signed by the park manager you may then return to the site and place the cache. When the permit is approved by the park manager he will assign it a number and expiration date. To help speed your cache submission through the review process please indicate the permit number and expiration date on both the cache page and a note to reviewer.

You release it and its a goner... guaranteed Take a lesson from IceCreamMan and his ICM's GeoWoodstock 3 Coin #4 which has been traveling since July and doing well. If McJunk toys with dog tags disappear how long do you think a logable state geocoin will last?

Historic sites are in fact covered under the new state parks geocaching permit system as are the state golf courses and ski areas. All caches on lands managed by OPRHP will need to be permitted. Go here for a list of parks and lands requiring a permit.

I too would like to respond to Joek’s post. Let me assure everyone the New York State Parks geocaching permit system is fully implemented. Mr. Gell’s statement regarding the draft copy and park administrators sending their comments to Albany is true but outdated. The “draft” was sent to each park back in December for their input. I don’t recall what the time-frame was but that window has long since closed. The final permit has been drawn up and distributed to all the parks. The Stickers he refers to have already been printed distributed and many issued. I have several already on my own caches. I know of many permits that have already been issued in several regions. Mr. Gell is no doubt well intended but must be over worked and backlogged terribly since he is about 2 months behind the rest of the state. Permits are being issued all over the state with the exception of the Palisades region. While not the largest park or region in the state they do have the most caches and I’m guessing they are just as unsure how to handle this as you and I are. Would anyone going to the Sterling Forest State Park please check the log book of the caches that remain in the park office for identification. If the GC number is on the logbook great, if not then maybe the name of the cache or the coordinates. With this I’ll be able to disable the listing and contact the cache owner. Geocaches are easier to catch, even traveling caches.

Above is the definition of 'bushwhack'. Take a look at the first definition and I wouldn't wonder naturescout and other park officials would panic. I would panic! I think as geocachers and hikers when we say bushwhack we more closely relate to number 2. Simply hiking through the woods without the aid of a trail.

Junglehair, I believe you'll need to ask each park for their version of the pdf file. All parks have the same permit but personalizes it to their individual park. See where I marked the scan below. Maybe they will allow us to to write in the park name and address, that would be great. Also keep in mind the permit prints out on legal sized (8.5 X 14 inch) paper.

I wanted to clear up a couple points here. Already are. The permits were emailed to all parks as a pdf file (Geocache Application-rev SHS 1-5-05 dc.pdf). Each park then prints the permit/application as needed. The stickers were sent to each of the 13 districts to be distributed from there to the parks they manage. Some regions have already instituted the permit process and are moving forward. Others have chosen to delay the process for their own personal reasons. I just got off the phone with Harriman and at first the lady I spoke with claimed to know nothing about it. After I worked a couple of the right names into the conservation she admitted they had the permit and had a meeting scheduled with all the regions park managers to discuss it. Time marches on. To take a look at the 13 regions and list of parks within each region visit New York State Parks regional maps Other regions are already using the permit and one western NY region has asked me to assist in not only ensuring new caches are permitted but to aid them in permitting or removing pre-existing caches. Notice I said “aid”. I will not take any action without a request from the park manager or TPTB at geocaching.com. My humble opinion is that jonboy’s approach is the only viable avenue to take. Charging in with both guns blazing will not help your cause, ask Jesse James. A little tact and diplomacy will go a long ways towards opening otherwise closed doors. As a cache reviewer I have made contact with and established a line of communication with various state land management offices. I have done this to better enable me to perform my duties as a volunteer cache reviewer. These contacts are an important and valuable source of information that I don’t care to jeopardize so New York Admin will stand on the sidelines this time and just watch. But that doesn’t mean geocacher John Doe won’t be right there with you guys. I have already taken a tongue lashing for reviewing and listing a cache in a state park last week. From this point forward no caches on New York State Park lands will pass review without a valid geocaching permit issued by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. If your park is not yet issuing permits then don’t place the cache until they do. Plain and simple!

That's an entirely different animal. The Adirondack and Catskill parks are managed by the Dept. of Environmental Conservation Bureau Forest Preserve Management. What we're talking about here is all the little state parks throughout the state which are managed by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. I know it's confusing but if you look at the sigh at the entrance to any state land it will tell you which office manages it. That is the $64,000 question. These new permits haven't gone live yet but will shortly. When that happens I'll post a note here on this forum and on all five geocaching organizations in the state.

This includes all 138 New York State Parks managed by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. You can look here and find parks by region. YES You're on your own honor to get your own permit for existing caches. But know if the state finds them without a sticker they will be removed. Don't fool yourselves, every park office has an internet connection and knows exactly what's in their parks. Of the 7 park offices I've been in lately every one had geocaching.com bookmarked and knew what caches were in their parks. That's not to say they will actively seek out geocaches, I'm sure they have much better things to do. So if you don't want to get a permit for your pre-existing caches that's between you and the State of New York but new placements will need a signed permit to pass review.

A permit system for the placement and maintenance of geocaches on New York State park lands is already in place. This comes from the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, Bernadette Castro, Commissioner and I believe that includes Letchworth State Park too. Each approved permit will be accompanied with a label to be placed on the outside of the cache container. These labels will be serial numbered and recorded on each permit. Any caches found by park officials, old caches or new caches, will be removed and held for a period of 30 days during which time they may be claimed. Permits will be valid for a period of two years at which time the cache must be either removed or relocated and secure a new permit. If you don't like the .10 mile separation imposed by geocaching.com you won't be thrilled to learn the state parks require a .25 mile separation between caches. No individual may have more than 5 caches per park and each location of a multi counts as a cache toward that total. There is much, much more in the permit including things like a 20 foot limit from a trail, no bushwhacking, non-breakable waterproof containers with latching mechanism to prevent exposure to wildlife. I read that as ammo cans or Lock-N-Lock. I've gone over the permit countless times and still find it hard to believe there is NO mention of any cost for the application, label or processing. The labels have yet to be distributed to the parks as of this morning but everything else is in place and ready to go. Once the Labels are available and this permit system goes into effect I've been asked to list only caches with valid permits. When the labels are available I'll post to this thread and I'd suggest if you have a cache within a state park already that you place a label on it during your spring maintenance.

To set the record straight I checked the New Jersey queue this morning and there was only one cache in queue. Tonight, that same cache is still the only one in queue and it doesn’t belong to anyone who has posted in this thread. Just thought you guys would like to know.

Happy holidays to everyone and may you find a cache of joy and happiness under your tree that will last all year long.

If you write on an object with marker, soapstone, chalk or anything biodegradable what’s to say it will still be there next month when the next finder comes along. Cache permanence issue so cache isn’t approvable. Writing on an object, even with a biodegradable substance is nothing more than graffiti and that is certainly not acceptable

Nothing has been made off limits. The cache was denied on the 528 foot rule and a waiver was not given to 257 feet (less than half the required distance) because of concerns by the State. The last time I talked with the Parks and Recreation people they weren't real thrilled with our 528 policy. Now, if this cache is approved at 257 feet what's the message we are sending them about us. How can we make them believe we will follow their rules when we can't even follow our own. Now that brings up another question. I didn't even ask TBB if he had obtained a "Special Use Permit" from the the park manager as required by the NYS Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. Maybe he did, I didn't ask. I agree that this would be a top quality cache if in a different location. Take a look at Lake Tiorati or maybe Lake Stahahe. Both are well populated with islands and are in a much less cache dense area.

I took the course of action on Team Bam Bam’s cache that Idid for two reasons. One which has been discussed already is the accidental find issue, and with the natural barrier could possibly be overlooked. The other reason and one which should be of utmost importance to everyone caching in New York is the over population issue. I’ve been in contact with Dominic Jacangelo Deputy Commissioner NYS Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation in Albany. They are well aware of geocaching and the amount of caches that are on their lands. While we have talked about the proximity issue they haven’t thrown out any numbers yet. You can bet they won’t be as generous as Groundspeak’s 528 feet. If they are talking with Mr. Wolf, or Mr. Frank from DEC then we are all in big trouble. DEC is talking a 1 mile separation and that’s only on cretin lands, others will still be outright banned. Yes, to your next question, we do have a shot at getting back onto some DEC land but that’s another issue and not ready for prime time yet. Back on topic, Sure I could list the cache for TBB but take a look at THIS MAP. This is the map Parks and Recreation office sees, do we want to add more fuel to their fire? Does this mean no more caches in state parks? Absolutely not but lets keep them spread out a little. My suggestion to TBB was to either move the first micro to another island or maybe consider dropping the first micro altogether. Weather a cache is a quality cache or a lame roadside quick stop has no bearing on the issue. Its not for me or any other cache reviewer to judge the quality of a cache as long as it meets posted guidelines.

I’ve been in contact with Mr. Sullivan at Storm King and he confirms the Army Corp of Engineers will be searching out and detonating unexploded ordnance (UXO) in the park this summer. The entire park will be closed to the general public starting July 1, 2004 and remain closed until the Army Corp of Engineers has finished. There is a projected completion date of November this year and the key word here is ‘projected’.

Cool, can you approve this cache? GCJA48 No, and for 275 reasons. Get that up to over 528 of them reasons and I'll be glad to.

Not sure but I think I know who it is.