driven1

Got it. Thanks. The wifey's happy now!

I recently renewed my Premium account after a 2 year hiatus. The wife and I finally went caching today and one of the caches we did was a members only cache. We both have separate accounts here on Geocaching.com with hers being a free (non-member) account. Is there a way that she can log her find so that she can keep her stats correct? I saw a thread in the GSAK forum on Clyde's website that mentions that this can be done and refers back to the forums here. I checked the FAQ and tried various searches with no luck on the subject. Can someone clarify if it can be done and if so, how? Thanks

Lately, my wife and I have developed an interest in Fossil hunting. Here in Pennsylvania, there are a wealth of fossils from the Devonian and Carboniferous Periods of the Paleozoic era. These periods contain mainly plant and aquatic fossils because during those periods of time, a good chunk of PA had shallow lakes and swamps. Very near to our home are areas where the rock had been cut away from the side of hills for the installation of a main route and we've found many fossils from those periods there. It's amazing to hold a fossil in your hand of what was once was a living plant or animal from 400 to 200 Million years ago. The more we find the more interested we become. It's a whole lot like geocaching isn't it? There are many areas throughout the United States and the World where fossil hunting is relatively easy. I'm curious about how many of you actively fossil or mineral hunt while out Geocaching and if there are any great stories or finds (other than Geocaaches) associated with the combination of those activities. If you've got a story, let's hear it!

Oops! Sorry, I have a really bad case of foot-in-mouth disease now! I had not realized that there were some handhelds out there now with that capability. As it turns out, there are. Looks like the hard part is getting an interface going between the sounder and the GPS. I hunted around on Garmin's site and found little about it other than the capability is there and that the units that do have the capability are capable of sending instruction to 3 other peripheral units simultaneously and capable of "listening" or recieving data from one. Uses the standard NMEA in/out protocol for data transfer. So as someone else mentioned, the whole thing would depend on the brand of Sounder and it's capabilities as far as being able to connect and send data to the Garmin. Man! I gotta keep up on this stuff.

It ain't gonna happen! The GPS is not equipped to store or provide that sort of information. Your Sounder is in charge of all of that sort of info. You could sell your Garmin and get a sounder that has built in GPS as well as temp and depth, but my suggestion is to keep your Garmin and buy a Sounder that includes a water temp sensor in the inducer. Why not buy an all in one unit? Because you can't take your fishfinder GeoCaching! But you can take your Garmin Geocaching AND Fishing. I use mine to mark good spots and I keep a log on the spot, it's coordinates, time of year - weather conditions, water temp, depth, etc, from my Lawrence FishFinder. I'll tell you, it's a great system on return trips. No guessing involved. The worst you have to do is decide what bait or lure to use for the conditions at hand. Hope this helps.

Enjoy... Cnn.com - Geocaching puts authorities on edge - good article!

I know this thread is a little on the done side, but I thought I'd pipe up on one thing related to the "Shakable" Flashlights that one of the previous posters asked about. Yes, they work and the beam is basically ok but not necessarily the brightest. They seem relatively rugged. I have one as a back-up. I do not use it for Geocaching though! Why? These flashlights have a VERY POWERFUL MAGNET in them. You will want to be very careful of your electronic equipment, especially GPSr's, MP3 Players, digital cameras, PDA's, Laptops, Mini DV Recorders, Cassette Tapes, cell phones, anything that uses magnetic media as a storage medium (which, in one form or another, is true of all of the items I mentioned). There is a strong possibility that your pictures or music may be erased by the magnet or even worse, the equipment itself may be damaged. The reason being that a lot of these items use magnetic memory to save configuration and operational data. The magnet in these flashlights can totally erase magnetic media! If you're an Orienteer, or use a Compass while geocaching, you may want to just leave one of these flashlights home period. I did a little experiment with my compass. One day I had the flashlight and my compass on my desk and noticed that a foot away from the flaslight, North on my compass was pointing straight at it. I Picked up the compass and slowly moved away from the flashlight. It ended up being about a full 8 feet before the compass was no longer affected by the Flashlight magnet! Just thought some of you would like to know that before tossing one in your pack next to your camera or PDA!

In reading the Bill, the only sticking point I see is in the language of "B" the rest pretty much follows Geocaching Guidelines anyway. That section reads as follows... "B" It is unlawful for a person to engage in the activity of geocaching or letterboxing in a cemetery or in an historic or archeological site or property publicly identified by an historical marker without the express written consent of the owner or entity which oversees that cemetery site or property. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is very clear as well on the point of "express written consent." The problem is in that the language itself is too broad. It implies that both the person placing a cache must obtain written permission of the land manager involved and also that a Geocacher hunting for the placed cache (after it has been approved through our Volunteer Reviewers) must also obtain written permission to look for the cache from the involved land manager. This would create a situation where the land manager would either be totally unwilling to allow a cache due to the possibility of being "pestered" by numerous Geocachers who seek permission to look for the cache or the eventual Archiving of the cache if the land manager wasn't fully aware of the requirement. Once a land manager has given written permission to place a cache on his/her property, that should automatically infer that the involved land manager has given permission for Geocachers looking for the cache access to his property in a limited manner without the need to contact him/her for permission to do so. I propose a change to the language of section "B"... "B" It is unlawful for a person engaged in the activity of geocaching or letterboxing to place a Cache in a cemetery or in an historic or archeological site or property publicly identified by an historical marker without the express written consent of the owner or entity which oversees that cemetery site or property. In providing that written consent, the land manager understands that he/she will be providing limited access to the property to people engaged in the sport of Geocaching looking for the cache placed there. The land manager has the right at any time to contact the owner of the placed cache to report problems with the cache placement or request total removal of the cache. The land manager also has the right, in certain circumstances, to bring trespassing (or any other related charges) against anyone who has been found to not be performing Geocaching on his/her property or to Geocachers themselves who were clearly engaged in activities unrelated to Geocaching while on the property. In reading SECTION 16-17-600. Destruction or desecration of human remains or repositories thereof; liability of crematory operators; penalties, this is standard fair when it comes to cemetaries and concerns willful damage or removal to graves and gravestones. It does not apply to the property that contains them. Ie. worn paths due to an increase of traffic to a certain area contained within the property. So this section should, in all reality, be a non-issue where Geocaching is involved. As our friends from SC have pointed out numerous times, this is not about politics anymore. It is about a bill that WILL be passed in some form by their legislature. It is in our best interest as Geocachers throughout the United States (and the world for that matter) to put all of the politics aside and concentrate on the problem at hand with the language of the bill itself. As our friends in SC have stated, their bill may end up being a model for some other states. Lets all work on getting that impending legislation correctly worded so that it is clear and concise and covers all parties involved and provides a suitable outcome for all. You will note that all of my posts have not mentioned anything at all about the underlying politics. I expect and hope that the rest of the Geocaching community that frequents these boards and watching this thread in particular, do their best to help them as I have attempted to do without the politics and off topic comments.

On the subject of cache placement, Geocaching.com's placement guidelines are very clear... Off-limit (Physical) Caches By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive): Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges) Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate. Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a clue or a logging method. Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans. Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply. Caches near or on military installations. Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports. There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain in notes to the reviewer section of the cache page. For example, if you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate it in the notes for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache. In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations. If your area does not have a local caching organization please contact your local reviewer for information on regulations. If you have complied with special regulations by obtaining a permit, please state this on your cache page or in a ‘note to the reviewer’. If the Geocaching.com web site is contacted and informed that your cache has been placed inappropriately, your cache may be archived or disabled and you may be contacted with any information provided by the individual or organization who contacted us.

I read the article and find that Wisconsin has the right take on Geocaching (as well as many other states do). It is an opportunity for the state to promote Tourism in areas that normally may have not gotten much to begin with. This means that more money is spent in those areas by the Geocachers who visit them. Geocachers frequently eat at local restaurants, buy gas, various supplys, and Souvenirs to remind them of the places they've visited. All helping the local economy (and the state through sales tax). As a Geocacher, I have gone to many areas in the persuit of the sport that I never would have visited in the first place without it. I have also spent plenty of money in those areas. Every time my wife and I go on a "hunt" we are generally amazed at the areas and locations that this sport has taken us to. We have seen wild Elk standing in people's yards, Bears, Turkey, Deer, Coyotes, amazing historical statues and buildings, beautiful waterfalls in a deep part of an ancient forest. All of these are things that we never would have experienced without the sport of Geocaching. It also always amazes me at the local level at how much there is to see or experience that we never knew was there. Most of the time it is a great history lesson and gives us a real sense of what life was like in the area and the changes that have taken place and the reasons for them through the years. On the subject of Geocaching in Cemetaries, another poster mentioned the sense of history involved in those cemetaries. This is very true. There is a lot to be gathered from the stones. From the inscriptions to the dates, they give voice to long silenced voices. We live in a very old area and we have seen stones from the late 1700's! We look at many of them and find clues to what the area may have been like then and the living conditions. There are indications of mass illness, natural (or un-natural) disasters, war, the stature of individuals in the community, the religious beliefs of the community, and the employment of the community. All of this can be gathered from the voices of the stones. Without Geocaching, we never would have seen these spots and got interested in the local history. We have on many occasion, after visiting a Cemetary Cache, gone to other places in the community to inquire about some of that history. It is ALWAYS compelling. My wife also does some Geneology and we have found Geocaching in cemetaries useful for this as well. She has been working on our family tree learning where various relatives and branches of our family long forgotted had lived. Through the data that she has gathered in her research and applying some Geocaching to it, we have found Cemetaries where some of those relatives are buried. In a few cases, these Cemetaries were small "Home" plots that we never would have found without the sport. And again, this has given some "voice" to those long forgotten relatives. We are very greatful for that. I recall visiting a Cache not too far from here of a single marked grave with a stone handcrafted from the local available stone. The stone was back in the woods a bit all by itself and was not visible from the road. It told of a logger who had passed while logging in the heyday of that industry in Pennsylvania. Logging was not an easy profession then and required a lot of very difficult and dangerous work. Many a life was lost in Pennsylvania in the name of Logging in those days. I was honored to find this cache and know that the gentleman who had passed would now never be forgotten or lost. I'm sure that there are many Gravesites throughout the world like this. Some found and some not. Every time someone places a cache at one of these sites, it is an act of respect. We have also seen some very unique gravesite caches. In particular, there is one located in Wellsboro, PA called Wilson's Home. It is indeed very different. For those who feel that Cemetaries should be off limits, why do we as humans feel the need to have them? If they aren't there for the ability for us to visit to pay our respects to those buried there, whether it be personal or historical for everyone who cares enough to visit, then why do we have them? Cemetaries hold great personal and historical value for everyone and should not be off limits to anyone. Geocachers or not. If the people who are trying to get these laws passed would take the time to see what Geocaching is really about and thoroughly read the guidelines set forth for the placement of Caches along with the CITO concept, they would see that Geocachers in the most part are very attuned to their communities and provide a valuable service to that community in many different ways. There has also been some talk of Geocaching creating damage to properties due to increased traffic in those areas. I have personally never seen this occur. I have also never seen droves of Geocachers lined up to get a "First to Find" at a Cemetary. In fact I have never seen an area that has been adversely affected by Geocaching due to increased traffic. What I HAVE seen is areas that were once littered with all kinds of trash, clean and pristine due to the efforts of Geocachers. This is what CITO (Cache In Trash Out) is all about. It is based on an old Camping Credo that you leave an area as clean or better than you found it. Another part of this is that if a Cache Owner does find that an area is or has been adversely affected due to Geocacher traffic, he or she has the ability to disable, move or "Archive" the cache (remove the cache altogether). Good, responsible cache owners will do this if necessary. You will also find that Geocachers who have found Cache locations in disrepair or bad shape due to traffic (or anything else for that matter) will promptly notify the cache owner of the problem to be corrected. If there is no response from the Cache owner and the Cache hasn't had the necessary actions taken in a reasonable time, An Approver or Geocaching.com itself may disable or archive the cache. The Geocaching community is very good at policing itself based on the guidelines set forth on the site. In some cases, yes, there are questionable placements of caches. It was up to a Reviewer to determine if the placement met all of the criteria set forth for an acceptable placement. The Reviewers are volunteers and make their decisions based on the information supplied by the Cache Owner and any other information requested by the Reviewer. Sometimes the information may seem adequate to approve a cache and it is approved. Reviewers don't have to and are not obligated to visit every cache they approve. There are many that do visit some caches prior to approval though. Again, they are volunteers and use their own time and money for this. They are not on Geocaching.com's payroll in any way, shape, or form. Sometimes the decision the Reviewer makes may be incorrect. Again, the great thing is that the Geocaching community does a pretty good job of policing itself in these matters. If a Geocacher finds that a placement may be unacceptable or could create undue stress for local authorities, the Cacher has the ability to contact the cache owner and the reviewer. If a resolution is not made there, the cacher can contact Geocaching.com directly for a definitive determination. I should also note that the events of 9/11 have made caches that were perfectly acceptable before that date now totally unacceptable. A sad sign of the times. In conclusion, when we go Geocaching it is NEVER about the points. It is about getting out of the house, sometimes with our kids, and seeing new places, meeting new people, learning, getting some much needed exercise, and enjoying our time together. It is NEVER about the points and we don't think of Geocaching as a "game." It is a new and exciting experience everytime we set out! I sincerely hope that the various legislators of SC that watch this forum have read this and I hope that this helps our fellow Geocachers in SC and any other state that may be thinking along the lines of SC. Good Luck!

For Alan2. I would get hold of Verizon or look at their Web Site for info about the router they supplied. If it has built in wireless and you use it, Verizon should be able to walk you through setting up the Wireless security. If your pc is hardwired to the Verizon router, you generally don't have to worry too much about security. If you are concerned though, contact Verizon and have them walk you through the security settings. ParrotBob gave some very good pointers in an earlier post as to what should be secured at the very least. Seeing as how this has gotten way off topic, (replies from myself included) I am closing this thread. I have already gotten the answer I was looking for. Yes, some folks do use "Wardiving" Software and techniques to locate and "Borrow" unsecured wireless connections for the purpose of GeoCaching. And there are some that actually DO Wardrive (as it's meant to be done) and Cache at the same time. Thanks for all of the replies and to ParrotBob for his links and other advice concerning wireless security.

Seeing as some folks have inquired about how to secure their wireless networks, I thouight I'd give a couple of links that may help... www.practicallynetworked.com Linksys Wireless Network Security Belkin Networking Wizard There are many other brands of wireless routers out there and some of their sites require the specific model number to provide the correct instructions. On the whole, most are basically the same from a setup standpoint. Also check the documentation that came with your wireless router. There are usually instructions for setting up the wireless and turning on and configuring WEP (Wireless Encryption). A quick note on that, you should always use 128 bit encryption when available. On the computer side of things you may need to look at either the documentation that came with it, the manufacturers website, or the manufacturer's site of the wireless card built into it to learn how to set the WEP up properly on that side of things. Wireless routers are basically small transmitter/reciever combination units much like a walkie talkie. As with a walkie talkie, anyone within range can listen to it and reply to it unless something has been done to prevent this. Enter Wireless Encryption. The best way to put it in this example is that the Encryption is like a "Scrambler" and the data transmitted is only inteligible to those who have the correct "Key" to unscramble the transmission. On the subject of Wardriving. There are those who do it as a legitimate hobby just like those of us who enjoy GeoCaching. They adhere to a set of rules just as we do. There are those, however, who use Wardiving techniques to locate and hack Wireless connections for the purposes of Identity and Data Theft. These folks have their own set of rules. If you are truly concerned about security, use a wired connection and supplement it with internet security software. The same goes for Wireless, although the security risks are much higher for wireless connections even though you may have your security set up properly. Yes, there are ways and programs used to crack wireless encryption keys! On the note of FREE INTERNET DOWNLOADS. Yes, there are people who owned unsecured wireless networks that HAVE BEEN SUED by the RIAA for file sharing when in actuality it was someone else using their unsecured router as an access point to download music. The person was sued because it was the IP address of their router that was identified as the supplying IP. So, if you are running an unsecured router, either purposely or not, you could end up being liable for something like that. At the least spending a ton of money proving that it wasn't you. Hope this helps some of you.

I would think that you could use nearly any picture posted by users of this site for your project unless you are planning to have your site work as a money making venture. If the site will be strictly informational and not require a subscription then I would say that you could use almost any picture posted on GC by its users. I would expect that from a US Copyright point of view, that none of the users pictures uploaded to the site are copyright protected unless registered by that user with the US Copyright Office, nor are they the "Property" of GC. Users have the ability to remove any picture they care to at any point without the permission of GC. The users own their pictures. If your site is going to require a subscription then I would contact the owner(s) of whatever pictures you want to use and request their permission to use them. At that point the Picture owner may want to have the picture copyrighted and then allow you're use of it for a fee or royalty payment. All GC Logo's are the property of GC and therefore copyrighted. Any use of these without permission of GC would be a copyright infringment. Use of those items should be cleared with GC. Best suggestion. Hunt through the various galleries on the site, decide what you'd like to use and then contact the Picture owner(s) for their permission to use them. More than likely, if your site is strictly informational and not a subcription service, all of the great folks that use this site would be thrilled to allow free use of their Pictures. If I'm wrong on any of this, feel free to correct me!

I tried the capability with Google Earth Plus to change the Regular Cache Icon to another to represent that it was one we had found. No problem at all!

I personally don't know if something like that will be available or not. That would be Jeremy's department. We use Google Earth Plus and it has the capability to "Pushpin" places on the map using various Icons for the places you pushpin. I like to keep track of where we've been and found caches by putting pushpins for them on our maps. It's kind of cool to be able to see where you've been this way. Kinda puts it all in perspective. I would expect also, that you could "Edit" the GC pushpins provided by the KML but I'm not sure of it. Will have to try it tonight. If it's possible you could change a GC pushpinned cache to a "Found it" yourself just by editing the pushpin. "Right-clicking" on a pushpin will give editing options for it in Google Eaarth Plus. I can't remember if the Free version of Google Earth has that capability or not. As I recall, it doesn't. My 2 cents -

Actually, my bad. You're right, the terminology did come from "back in the day" and the terminology was derived from wardialing. (Although the WAR acronym does fit nicely for wireless access recon) On the point of unintentionally unsecured wireless networks as opposed to ones left open on purpose. There is no way to tell one from the other unless "advertised." As I mentioned earlier, I work for a major broadband internet provider in a support capacity and I am always amazed at the sort of things that people don't know about (or apparently don't care about knowing) when it comes to their internet connection and especially when it comes to securing their wireless networks. My feeling is that this will always be the case. People hook stuff up and don't bother to read the documentation that comes with the product or the documentation is above their heads and they say "the heck with it, it's working that's all I care about" and leave it at that. Even in the workplace I see it. That in particular is really funny. I found an unsecure router right here and it's labeled to be used by managers! A great way to lose sensitive company information! (I informed them of this and they're correcting it.) I know that there are some people who "Wardrive" as a means of generating some cash. They drive around looking for unsecure networks, knock on the persons door that has one, informs them of it, and then offers to secure their network for a fee. So it looks like if you need a quick connection there are plenty around. My take on it is if they're there, and you need a quickie, why not? There are plenty of arguments as to why not. Stealing, etc. But if folks don't take measures to secure their own wireless networks, they obviously don't care, why should I if I need a quick connection?

If you look up some of the Wardriving sites on the net, you'll see that all of them specifically say that wardriving for the sake of finding open wireless access points to use to "borrow" internet access (or worse) is specifically forbidden. On the point of why they do it, supposedly, is to raise awareness about the dangers of unsecured wireless networks in any given area. Personally I find it pointless. I work for an internet service provider and everyday run into unsecured wireless routers. Some might say that if people aren't smart enough to secure thier wireless networks that they deserve to have their connection "Borrowed." Just for fun this morning, I tossed my laptop into the car and fired up the software to locate wireless access points. I live in a VERY rural area. I found 10 open networks in a 10 mile drive! Wardriving was the best description I could think of to describe what I was after. If I have offended anyone that participates in wardriving, that was not my intention. Again to those who actually participate in Wardriving, Using someone's internet access without their express permission is FORBIDDEN. (Actually, you could probably end up in jail if caught using someone elses access.!) It has already been shown in this thread that some folks do use some of the software/techniques used in wardriving to briefly "borrow" an internet connection for GeoCaching purposes. That answers my initila question. Now I wonder how many do it!

I believe that the "War" part of it stands for Wireless Access Reconnaissence. The practice of "reconning" for open wireless access points.

For those of you that have never heard of it (and I bet there's tons of you who have) it's the practice of driving around with a Wireless Laptop or Pocket Pc using software that "logs" wireless access points and also (if you have the right software) will display those points (sort of) on a map through the use of your GPS'r. Do you do both at the same time? And if you do, do you Wardrive for the sake of Wardriving or do you do it (and according to all Wardriving souces on the net this is a big No-No) do you do it to find unsecured wireless access points to connect to to get net access for Geocaching? Just curious.

Notice I said "Most" of the good spots are taken. Not "all." Because of that, and the placement of Caches in the more obvious spots, deeper research is required. We already have a couple of good ideas that dig back into the American and Indian folklore of this very rural area that we live in.

My wife and I have been Caching for about 2 years now but not heavily. We have 48 Finds between us. We do thoroughly enjoy caching when we go. We have thought about placing our first cache but are firm believers that there should be something special and worthwhile about it. We are relatively new to the area, so are not well versed in it's history or unique geographic or historic features. We are researching these though. We have also found that a lot of the caches nearby have already been placed in these sort of areas, making it more difficult to find a good placement of our own. Seeing that we have 48 finds between us, we have made a decision that on the day that we hit 50 we will place a cache. We expect that to happen in about 2 weeks. So you see, it may not be that folks are lazy and don't feel like placing caches, it may simply be that most of the good spots are already taken!

This has been an interesting discussion but didn't quite head in the direction that I was after. Partially that is my fault. I should have thought the question out a little more before posting. I appreciate all of the replies though and have found, if nothing else, that folks are really defensive of their ability to search for micros, stealthed or not. I can see that definately micros aren't going to go away, and that's a good thing! What I was actually after, is that due to the events since 9/11, the Gulf and Iraq wars, and terrorist factions, has the GeoCaching community felt the need to change their tactics or decided not to do or place certain types of caches due to heightened "security measures" throughout the world. So with that final note I'm closing this discussion.

Seeing and this thread's in the Newbies area, and having had a little incident while caching once, I thought I'd toss in some info on what I bring when doing "Woodland" caches. 1). A hydration Backpack 2.) First aid kit w/Snakebite kit 3.) Music CD/DVD (the mirrored side makes an excellent signalling device) 3.) 3 military style belts (for making stick splints) 4.) LED Flashlight 5.) Zippo Lighter and Fluid 6.) Cell Phone 7.) GMRS Radio (for areas where a Cell doesn't work) 8.) Dehydrated Foods and Trail Mix 9.) Alchohol Stove 10.) Military Mess Kit 11.) Rain Gear 12.) Fresh Socks 13.) 4 Large Plastic Garbage Bags 14.) GPS'r of course 15.) If you're a smoker, extra packs of smokes! Usually my wife and I go caching together. Both of our packs are loaded identically in case one of us is hurt and the other has to leave and walk out for help. This setup is not a total result of our experience. We had a lot of that stuff with us on that particular Cache. Some of the additions to it ARE a result of that Cache. If you're caching alone in the woods, just about anything can happen and it's best to be a good Boy Scout and be prepared! The gear that I've listed should be able to take care of you in nearly any situation and sustain you for a couple of days if necessary. I'm thinking about adding a Pistol to it but haven't quite been able to bring myself to it. This may sound extreme but it's not at all and well worth it if you find yourself starnded for some unexpected reason. Also, as others have stated, leave a list of the cache locations, with the order you intend on doing them at home as well as a best guestimation of when you think you'll be back. The adventure was partially a result of our own stupidity ( should have waited 'til the next day to do it) but overall this, or something like it or worse, could happen to anyone. Even those of you who say "That'll never happen to me." Be prepared. Be careful. Be safe! If you'd like to see our logs from the cache I mentioned... Our Little Adventure I should also mention that this is a great Cache! If you get the opportunity, do it! A great area to see Elk, Whitetail Deer, Turkey and Grouse. There is also a possibility of seeing Rattlers. Snake boots are recommended while caching. If you continue to the end of Mason Hill Road you will run into a cleared top of the hill. There is an Elk Watching area going in here. It's a beautiful view in about 280 degrees of the mountains. Bring a Camera. Now that the leaves are starting to turn for Fall, it should be absolutely gorgeous!

Really dumb rule. What's to say that someone sitting at a parkbench with a child next to him/her isn't already a pedofile and the child has already been "taken?" Scenario... Pedofile has been scoping out the park for days from outside of the park. Noticed that there's a child who usually shows up unattended by an adult. On this particular day the pedofile goes into the park, grabs the kid, shows it a knike and says "If you say a thing, I will Kill you." The Pedofile has the child sit on the bench next to him/her as the cops walk by saying "Good Afternoon" and smiling at them as they pass. Horrible yes, but totally possible. So what good is a rule like that anyway? Talk amoungst yourselves.

I've seen a lot of "Fishin' Caches listed. It would be great if there were an attribute icon for that. It would be nice to know that there's public fishing available near some of the caches.