Sol seaker

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit. IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place. Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve? On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche. This...very much. All +1, but +100 to the part I bolded.... AGREE TO ALL So are these posts supporting blasting people who blast things? Please keep it nice in my thread.

I began by answering the question, explicitly, yes. Then I addressed the current state of the topic. If Sol seeker wants the thread to remain "on topic", and it was not ever supposed to be about the politics of those who have been banned, then she needs to speak up and attempt to steer it back on course. Otherwise, yes, the thread was not purely intended to discuss "What is the value of old timers in caching?" Post #7 - knowschad first steered the topic openly towards forum politics. Then Sol Seeker: "The point is that those who have been around a while have a lot to offer the community. They have VALUE in being here. They have a lot to share. ... We need people who have been around a while. The forums belong to everyone. Or at least they should. " Seems forum politics (not just value in geocaching) are a touchy subject. Then knowschad: "There seems to be a little confusion in this thread, I think. Are you referring to Geocaching old-timers, or forum regulars when you talk about old-timers? I thought you were referring to old-time forum regulars." Then the air was cleared in TriciaG's post #25, that there is a solid underlying issue regarding recent long-time forum users. And numerous responses have agreed, quite pleasantly, that there is certainly value of old timers in geocaching. I don't think anyone would disagree. So once again, if the thread is legitimately, and sincerely to discuss the value of old timers in geocaching, then sol seeker should make that clear. Either Knowschad misunderstood by post 7, and the thread has since already derailed into more angsty forum drama not related to the OP, or the thread has always had a passive-aggressive intent to rant about forum politics ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. And most threads in these forums anymore turn angsty, and judgmental over time, in case you hadn't noticed. Please re-read your own post and think about if there's anything there that might be adding to that.

I began by answering the question, explicitly, yes. Then I addressed the current state of the topic. If Sol seeker wants the thread to remain "on topic", and it was not ever supposed to be about the politics of those who have been banned, then she needs to speak up and attempt to steer it back on course. Otherwise, yes, the thread was not purely intended to discuss "What is the value of old timers in caching?" Post #7 - knowschad first steered the topic openly towards forum politics. Then Sol Seeker: "The point is that those who have been around a while have a lot to offer the community. They have VALUE in being here. They have a lot to share. ... We need people who have been around a while. The forums belong to everyone. Or at least they should. " Seems forum politics (not just value in geocaching) are a touchy subject. Then knowschad: "There seems to be a little confusion in this thread, I think. Are you referring to Geocaching old-timers, or forum regulars when you talk about old-timers? I thought you were referring to old-time forum regulars." Then the air was cleared in TriciaG's post #25, that there is a solid underlying issue regarding recent long-time forum users. And numerous responses have agreed, quite pleasantly, that there is certainly value of old timers in geocaching. I don't think anyone would disagree. So once again, if the thread is legitimately, and sincerely to discuss the value of old timers in geocaching, then sol seeker should make that clear. Either Knowschad misunderstood by post 7, and the thread has since already derailed into more angsty forum drama not related to the OP, or the thread has always had a passive-aggressive intent to rant about forum politics ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. So your first few lines make it sound like Knowschad and I are the same person, or at least see the world the same, or think the same, or ARE thinking the same, or something. I have no idea where you got that one. I assure you that Knowschad and I are indeed separate individuals; I am not a dog. As with every single other thread in these forums, or any forums for that matter, everyone can and does make of them what they will. I made myself clear in the first post. I don't know why you decided everyone else was speaking for me in muddying my opening post.

I am sorry you guys aren't getting out as quickly as you wanted to. You two are good people, and deserve a really wonderful trip. I hope you get a fantastic trip when you are able to get out. Hugs to you both.

Ummm, major difference. On streets speed limits are clearly posted all over. And then on top of that, most of us know the speed limit on our freeways and on the side streets of our local towns. And they don't change without a lot of hoopla in the media ("SPEED LIMITS INCREASED???? IS THAT SAFE????!!") What this thread is about is asking what the speed limits are here. We know a few of them from the forum rules, and some of them from the site rules, but because of the recent bannings, the questions has come up about unspoken rules. There are a lot of them, we're trying to figure them out. Such as the last post I made. That is not in the main posting rules of this forum. We're supposed to just know it I guess. But then the unspoken rules can vary moderator to moderator, so, I for one, want to know what the rules are so I can keep from "speeding". It is never my intention to break forum rules (at least not so far ). If I don't know what the rules are that makes it tough.

So to reply to the original question: I found a little note of clarification here User Insights Forum Guidelines: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=321716 That is the page for rules posting in the forums for suggestions to the website,etc. Those rules say: "We recognize that not all players enjoy geocaching using our products. We know that there is valuable information in hearing about your experience on other websites or apps, so in the User Insights forum ONLY participants may constructively discuss their experience with other geocaching products and how they improve your geocaching experience." Bolding is not mine. This is some good clarification. I feel this is the sort of thing we need to know. Whether we agree with it or disagree with it isn't the issue, so much as we know what the rules are here.

I had a friend who needed the phone number to her ex's sister (for good purposes) and asked if I could get it off the web. I came back with her phone number, address, where she went to school, what she enjoys to do, and what kind of dog she has. My friend didn't even know she had a dog.

I've always just chosen a cache nearby. It's fun to pick a cache that's out in a lake, but there's not always that option. Those coords are just for you to be able to see a map of your area easily and also for a reviewer to be able to see that you live in the area when they review any caches you submit. It doesn't have to be your actual home. Even a mile away works fine. I appreciate you bringing this information to our attention though. It's good to be aware of. Thanks.

+1 I think what was missing in the rollout is instructions, just such as these. I hope they are linked into the site, so it can help everyone use the tool most effectively. +1 I think the page is great, so I think what must be missing is the instructions. For a lot of searches it seems pretty straightforward, but there are probably complications that are frustrating people. New stuff can be hard for people even when it's good.

Thanks A-Team!! Appreciate the work that went into this. I just used the search engine for the first time today. For what I wanted to do it was pretty simple (narrow a search by area and by cache name). It came up with great results. After reading over what that page can do I'm really happy about it. THANK YOU Groundspeak!!!! I've been wanting a new search page for a very long time, that I could search for both cache name and location in the same search. I'm very happy with it so far. I'm actually pretty impressed that they thought of things like searching for caches that have notes on them. Now I can find all the ones that I solved the puzzles to. I know there are a lot around that I've missed and would love to find. That is way cool!! thanks guys!

I had a security guard question me tonight. I had been standing staring at a sign in a high muggle area that is supposed to have a cache on it. We chatted a while, real friendly like. Then I asked him if he'd heard of geocaching. I wanted a hint and wanted to know if he knew where it was. We chatted a while about caching and his experiences with being a security guard in other places with geocaches. But, no, he didn't know where it was. He did say he had been wondering why so many people stood staring at that sign. Another time I was finding a cache that was on the other side of a very small street from a child care facility. A police car drove up and parked between me and the facility, but he wasn't looking at me. I stopped, knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, so went ahead and continued to sign the cache and then put it back under the lamp skirt. I looked up and he was doing paperwork and pretending to not be watching me at all. I gave a friendly wave and sauntered slowly back to my car, playing with my GPS along the way. I don't look terribly threatening (unless I want to). In general I look like the nice person I generally am. They don't bother me much. If they do, I strike up a conversation and make friends.

Actually it did work. It did lighten things up... for a bit. thanks for doing that. I like that kind of moderating: lighten it up, rather than make it heavier. I respond well to that sort of moderating.

Still reading this thread backwards: Okay, here ya go. Is everyone feeling better yet? Need more hugs? there were some great penguin ones in there. I love penguins.

We won't really know. The OP asked what others meant about a Pen. The others were hoping the OP would give more detail what they meant and what it related to. But the OP never responded back on the thread. You have to admit it was a pretty funny question that could have been a troll. It's kind of like asking what a baseball bat is for in the game, in a baseball forum. You're going to get some wise answers. It's just a funny question. In case it was indeed a real question it would have been good to move it to the newcomers thread immediately before it went far in the regular forums. In the regular forums it was kind of guaranteed to get a wise response. It actually could have been much worse. Edit: OOOPs. I just read back and saw that someone else already suggested the thread being moved. That's what I get for only reading the last couple of posts of a thread. This one had more excitement in it than I realized. If I had of realized things were so exciting here, I would have moved on and done something more productive, like find a cache or something.

Yes this is a very good question, thank you for asking it. As a customer of geocaching.com, while on the forums, I tend not to feel valued. I think I'm a pretty good customer and like to feel valued by the places that I give my business to, and refer a lot of other customers to.

Thank you so much for doing this, A-Team!! This is great. I haven't used the new search engine much, but I just did and was so happy to find I could search for a word in the title of the cache and for the state the cache was in at the same time. I am really, really happy about that!!!

I've had minor run-ins a few times. My attitude is that if they don't know what geocaching is, they should know. I'm always all ready to tell them about it. I tell them that they can get a free geocaching membership, and that they should do that (they get a free PM so they can make sure things called in as bombs aren't geocaches). I tell them about the game and tell them I am willing to go to their police department and teach a bunch of police about the game if they don't know about it, because it is something they all need to know about. I've never had any problems.

Okay, I used the new search engine and it worked quite well. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there is a great list of challenge caches in CA. Perhaps you might make one. All you need to do is go to the new search engine and use the filters and type in California and "Challenge" and it gets you a great list. You can also start with this: http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.aspx?guid=0a3e1a81-39d8-45c9-bfb3-7fe026bf883d Which is challenges in the US, including some in California.

I'm really crappy at finding threads too, so I'm not much help with that. However, there are a few things you can do to find caches in your area. If you know of one challenge cache you can check the bookmark list on it to see if there is a list of challenges in California (since that's where you are). You can also do a search of caches around you, looking for the word "challenge" in the description. Here in Washington there are a number of great lists of challenge caches. All I've got to do is find one that's been around a short while and then I can check the bookmark list to find the lists of challenges. I'll check and see if I can do this for you.

Geocaching.com is a for-profit business, as has been mentioned. They are not even obligated to give anyone a free membership, but they do. When I started geocaching I was in tough economic times. Things were really bad there for a while, but I did manage to get a membership fee together. It wasn't easy, but it's all a matter of priorities. Do you have cable TV? I didn't. I didn't have any TV. You can easily pay for a geocaching membership off of what you pay for half a month of TV. I never went to movies, EVER. I never bought food at a restaurant, EVER. I never bought a cup of coffee out even. I couldn't afford those things and more, but I managed to come up with $30 bucks a year. It's all a matter of prioritizing what one feels is really important. Geocaching has really helped me get through some pretty rough times, so it's a priority to me. If it's not to you, that's okay. But just know it's a choice.

Yes, I will reply, because I think it's important that people always know what's going on. Some call it transparency. Some call it fairness. I guess there's been more angst here than usual, and this has been responded to by the permanent banning of a few members. No one has an exact count. I know of the names of three cachers who have been around in these forums a very long time and none whom I would consider the instigators of the most angst here, but that's just my opinion. They were permanently banned from the forums. So the problem to me, is that they weren't given warnings or reasons for the banning at that time. They had some history in the past with warnings or small bannings, and instead of being told, "This is your last warning and this is why. After this you will be permanently banned," they just got a note out of the blue that they were permanently banned with no explanation or warning. I would at least want to know why myself, and I would want the kindness and dignity of having a discussion about it. So now a lot of people are wondering if it will happen to them out of the blue with no warning and they'll never know what hit them. There are a lot of "unwritten" forum rules that seem to be part of the issue here. People are trying to figure those out because we like posting here. We like having a geocaching community online to talk to and to ask questions of and feel a part of something big. Most of us want this to be a fair and kind place. Most of us have fair and kind intentions. We all want to be heard, whether it be our opinion about the latest website update or about how we are treated in the forums, or about the latest really cool geocache that we found. That's what forums are about. Or usually are. Or something.

Thanks for your valuable contribution to the community.

Just for the record, I've never been banned here. I always watch how people around me are treated in all situations though. If a business treats others badly I figure my time will come around where they'll treat me badly too, so I don't go there.

My mind was wandering just now when posting in another thread, and I realized that post was off-topic there and really belongs here. (sometimes I do write without thinking) It was about what I learned in one place I worked at when I was 20. I saw the people dealing with the public there being really rude to the customers. If I were one of those customers I would have raised holy... well you get it. Then I watched how the management treated the people working there. I paid attention to stores where they treated the customers really well and asked them about their management. I came to realize that a lot gets passed down. People treated well are more likely to treat others well. People treated badly are more likely to treat others badly. The fact that the angst in these forums was bad a couple of years ago when I quit posting much, and it seems to have gotten a lot worse sense then. The management team of these forums have gotten harsher and harsher and the forums keep getting worse and worse. Perhaps the "fighting fire with fire" method is not working out so well. I heard recently about some other forums where when people were out-of-line they were given clear notices about WHY they were out-of-line, and they were given a clear message about how many other notices they would get and then what consequences would happen from that. That is clear messages that would have someone see that they are causing a problem. When someone is blindsided out-of-the-blue with a notice and no warning, and no indication of what the problem might be, it creates a bad atmosphere that spreads. That person runs to others and says, "What happened?" and others can also get disgruntled. A kind, polite forum management, who does not engage in snarky remarks, therefore encouraging the same, with clear messages and warnings with clear consequences tends to encourage the same. Also, a forum management team that listens to the complaints and suggestion of it's forum members, also creates a kind environment where everyone feels valued. The people in these forums are the people who pay for geocaching.com. I think they have important insights and suggestions that need to be considered. The best managers I've ever had are those who listen to those that work for them. The best companies I've frequented are those who ask for "suggestions and complaints" of the people who frequent their businesses. I always go to businesses that treat their customers well. I always go to businesses that care if a customer feels they not been treated well.

I would not disagree with most of what you say here. My "general" statement was more along the lines of those that I can be guaranteed to find here on ANY random or arbitrary day. Perhaps we should limit forum post count to not exceed find count? << that was a joke.. It's actually true that I was trying to keep my forum count no higher than my find count for a long time. Now I'm not on the forums as much. There has always been grumpy people on the forums, but it seems to have escalated in recent times. I always think when helpers in a store are unfriendly that it comes down from the top. I've worked at places where that is very true. Generally people treated well in a business treat others well. In forums I think the same thing can happen. I think moderators can create a harsh atmosphere by treating people harshly. I don't see it working. Things seem to have gotten worse in here. So I haven't been on the forums as much, and my forum count has dropped way below my find count. Does this mean I have work to do?