Zhanna

This passage from the Manual of Geodetic Triangulation may be of interest: Specifications For Marks 3. Naming of stations. - The triangulation party normally uses the name assigned by the reconnaissance party unless there is some reason for changing it. Correct spelling of the name should be checked locally before the mark is stamped. The correct name as stamped on the mark will be used throughout the records. The name of the locality is preferable but the name of the property owner may be used for the designation of the station. To avoid ill feeling, it should be made certain that the station is actually on the named property, and that the owner's name is correctly spelled. Double names should be avoided if practical as they cause extra work throughout the recording and computing. Also the double name including the word "peak," or "mountain," or "point," is not usually necessary, since the description should state that the station is on a peak or mountain or point of that name. Names of stations of other organizations should be retained exactly as stamped on that organization's station mark. If additional azimuth or reference marks are established by a party of this Bureau, the stamping should include the original station name, the initials of the other organization, and the year in which the additional marks are established. If the name of a recovered intersection station (not marked with a bronze disk) is incorrect, the correct name should be typed in the heading of Form 525b. The first statement in the body of the note should then list any previous triangulation names of the same object, as well as map names and any other names in current usage. from "Manual of Geodetic Triangulation" by F.R. Gossett, 1959 Special Publication No. 247 U.S.Department of Commerce ~Zhanna

I got tired of clicking through the NGS site to search by PID, so like JeremyA I created a bookmarklet for myself. (For more on bookmarklets, check out this article). You can find the link for the bookmarklet on my Survey Marks website, near the bottom left of the page. Just drag and drop the link onto your Links Bar/Personal Toolbar (depending on browser), or right-click and add it to your Favorites or Bookmarks. You'll get a popup prompt into which you can type the PID you're interested in. For easy access, I have it set up as a button on my Personal Toolbar in Mozilla. ~Zhanna

Rich in NEPA and I were traveling north on I-81 on Friday, July 2, when we were stopped for a few minutes (at around 4:15pm) in heavy traffic near Montage Mountain, Scranton, PA. Looking around at the "scenery", I happened to notice a faded Geocaching logo decal on the rear windshield of a red Dodge 4x4 in the lane to our left. "Geocachers!" I said. We pulled up alongside the vehicle to get a look and right at that moment we saw the woman in the passenger seat folding a geocaching logo t-shirt. Rich beeped and waved his GPSr because we had nothing else geocaching-related to show them. They waved back, but still might've thought we were lunatics. The vehicle had Pennsylvania plates and we figured it might be somebody we knew, but we didn't recognize the driver or the passenger. So ... was it you??? ~Zhanna

Excellent link, Jeff! Thanks. Tonight I will add it to the list on my website. Sources of Local Survey Control Data ~Zhanna

I have hundreds of MB of web space and a website for all things survey mark related, so I'd be happy to host the maps for you. ~Zhanna

Excellent work, Roger. In fact your map is very similar to the image I had I my mind of how I expected these prefixes to be ordered. I haven't had enough time this week to work on it more extensively, so I'm glad you were able. Yes, there are still a few of us! ~Zhanna

Congratulations, Ron! I always enjoy the stories you write in your logs. Best of luck on the next 100, and the next ... See you 'round the neighborhood! ~Zhanna

All's not lost. With the exception of the Cameron County, Texas AB marks, I'm pretty sure that all or the vast majority of the A marks I've seen have been relatively new; that is, monumented post-1990 or so. Could that have something to do with it? Maybe a new numbering system began around that time? There must be some logic to this! ~Zhanna

As you know I'm not from NGS, but I have made some observations that lead me to think that the two-letter prefix is related to the latitude and longitude of the mark. I've checked the datasheets for many marks in my general hunting area and find that the prefixes fall into a definite pattern: "LY" marks fall between N 41° and N 42°, and W 74° and W 76°. Immediately outside those boundaries, the letters change. I have not found any exceptions other than the "A" marks (AA, AI, etc.) that have been mentioned in this thread, and a few very new marks that have different prefixes which don't seem to fall into any pattern. I don't know if this pattern holds true everywhere, but to illustrate what I found I've compiled a chart of the general trend I see in my area and surrounding areas: Has anyone else noticed something similar? ~Zhanna

Apparently I and O are used in the two-letter PID prefixes (I've seen a number of AI marks myself), but they do not appear to be used in the designations of marks in a series. For example, check out some of the complete series of marks I'm working on currently: Level line recoveries You'll notice that all the letters but I and O are represented in the series (I didn't list A 281, V 281, or Y 234, which are all non-publishable marks). I've noticed this in other series as well. This may be a convention rather than a "rule" but I can see the practical value. I always assumed it had to do with the possible confusion of "I" and "1", and "O" and "0". ~Zhanna

Rich, I just saved a series of a particular test photo, increasing the compression value by one each time. I ended up with files of sizes 122K, 121K, 119K, 115K, 110K, 108K, and 107K. I then uploaded all of them and checked to see at what point my original dimensions were preserved. It wasn't till I got to the 108K version that it appeared on the site with the dimensions of 650x490, even though that's how they were all uploaded. Every file larger than that was resized down to 600x452. In the past, photos uploaded at 650x490 have displayed at their proper dimensions as long as the file size was under 125K. Obviously that's not happening right now. What's going on? Would someone look into this? Zhanna

Yes, it's taken right from the manual. The images were scanned, and the text was scanned and run through some cheap OCR software. (So no, I didn't type all that. ) Once I get some more done I will set it up so that you can see what part of the manual each section came from, and I'll have all the bibliographical info there too. Thank you! I'm glad you found it worthwhile. Any suggestions for anything else you'd like to see there ... just send them my way! ~Zhanna

A sneak peek at some (short) excerpts is available at my website. Standard marks of the U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey Objects used as landmarks Standard numbered notes for description of marks More will be available soon. Please let me know if you have a particular request; I'll try to locate and scan the relevant portions of the manual. ~Zhanna

I've obtained a copy of the Manual of Geodetic Triangulation and have begun scanning some of the pages. The "Notes" are available here: Standard numbered notes for description of marks Other information will be posted as it becomes available. ~Zhanna

My copy of the Manual arrived yesterday! Dave is correct in that the photos aren't of the same quality as in the original publication. The text is fine, however, and the charts, diagrams and tables are clearly reproduced. The larger format and looser binding of this version should also make scanning much easier. I still have a copy of the original (on loan from a library) and I will scan the photos before returning the book. Thanks again, Dave and Patty! ~Zhanna

Yes, I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciated this when I spoke with her. She really kept her cool, too, in the midst of the new carpet installation and whatever other insanity was going on in their office last week! I can't wait to receive my copy. Thanks, Dave and Patty. ~Zhanna

I'm collecting information on local survey control in all states (and Canada), and I have a few links for California listed on my website: Local Control Monument Databases I haven't yet found anything covering the whole state of California, nor have I found anything for Ventura County. ~Zhanna, in desperate need of sunshine and warm weather!

I've seen that a number of times with my own logs. When looking at a list of marks generated by a search (for example, a zip code search), it seems that the date I submitted the log appears, rather than the date I actually found the mark. But when I click to view the benchmark page, the correct Found date appears on my log. There's also still a problem with the order in which logs appear on the benchmark pages. For example, take a look at LY2724. My March 9, 2003 log appears after (or before, depending on how you look at it) the April logs. Either way, it's not in the right spot. ~Zhanna

I can't guarantee you'll learn anything about a nearby NGS mark, but have you tried requesting information by following the steps here: ODOT Benchmark Retrieval It can't hurt to e-mail the information they request and see if they can help you out. ~Zhanna http://www.planetzhanna.com/

This is killing me! I wish I could be there, too. I expect to see plenty of good stories and photos afterwards! Please keep the NEPA benchmark hunters in your thoughts as you enjoy the festivities! ~Zhanna

Neat! I'd considered trying to find out something about the Disney marks, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'm glad you did! At first glance the page looks very nice. Unfortunately I don't have anything to contribute right now, as the last time I was at Disney World was almost 20 years ago and I didn't know about benchmarks at the time. I'll put a link to your page on Zhanna's World. ~Zhanna

It's possible that I could scan this publication and make it available, if people would find it useful and if I could obtain a copy. What are your thoughts ... anyone?? ~Zhanna

Dave or Mike, Do you know how I could obtain a copy of this manual? Or do you know if the key to these "notes" might be listed online somewhere? I've seen references to several different notes (for example, LY2682's description refers to Notes 1A, 8A, and 12C in addition to 11A) and I've wondered if knowing their meaning might assist in finding the marks. Thanks, ~Zhanna

This is one of my favorites, from the Scranton, PA quad: U.E., Elmhurst, 3.0 mi E. and N. of, along hwy., thence 1.0 mi N. along second-class rd.; 100 ft. N. of S. edge of large open clearing on W. side of road.; 12 ft E. of center of rd.; in root on NW. side of 10-in. maple tree; copper nail and washer No, I haven't looked for it yet. GEO*Trailblazer, are you up for the search??? ~Zhanna

FYI... I was curious about these abbreviations since I first noticed them on my USGS data sheets. The following comes from Dave Doyle: UE is a Useful Elevation. These would often be marks that are not as permanent of regular bench marks (e.g. chiseled squares etc.). USGS was very fond of these as support for their national mapping program surveys. TBM stands for Temporary Bench Mark. In many cases there's not much difference between UE and TBM. ~Zhanna