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Everything posted by Steve&GeoCarolyn

  1. DNF And did you post a fully detailed DNF log for this one? Carolyn
  2. >.> <.< most the good spots have been taken eh? The continental US is 3.79 MILLION Square miles. Assuming that it averages out to one "good" spot per 4 square miles, that equates to .95 million "good" spots in the US. That's more "Good" spots in the US, then there are active caches world wide. (.87 million) You might have a leg to stand on if you said "I think most of the good spots in my area have gone." Sorry, Most of my ideal spots in this part of the UK, is what I ment in perticuler. I just thought that with the growing intrest in the hobby/ sport the there might be a simmiler thing elsewhere. It's an odd thing, but most of my UK friends make the same geographic mistake at times. (The funniest such situation was when one friend offered to drive over from her hotel in San Francisco to eat lunch with me in Denver. I had to gently explain the distance to her.) I wonder whether it is hard to picture vast swathes of wilderness if one grows up in an area that has been continuously inhabited for thousands of years. Perhaps our childhood geography embeds tracks into our brains that we revert to when we process new knowledge about places. I had the opposite reaction in the UK. I felt a bit overwhelmed by all the history and the evidence of human habitation everywhere I looked. I felt a bit cramped and as if I were always stepping on someone's unmarked grave. Perhaps these differing geographies lead to differing strategies for establishing and maintaining geocaching communities as well as issues related to cache placement. Carolyn
  3. Thank you. I think that is a great idea and one I wish I could use. (Your cache looks like a beautiful one.) I grew up in Colorado so all my hiking experience and all my memorable places from childhood are there. But that is what makes the area I live now so incredibly exciting to me. I'm not used to swamps. They seem like places of dark magic and thrilling danger to me in ways that the Rockies didn't. On the other hand, I have less to fall back on when it comes to thinking up good hiding places and I'm having to learn an entire new movement vocabulary and equipment list to negotiate the swampy land. We've had quite a few amusing experiences where our Colorado-honed impulses utterly failed us hiking in the Midsouth, starting with our first impulse to go hiking in mid-July (95 degrees and 90 percent humidity) when it was hot in the city and we assumed it would be cool along the hiking paths because the Rockies were always a cool respite in summer. Let's just say that the Midsouth river trails are not a cool respite from midsummer heat. Carolyn
  4. Carolyn, I'm glad you've decided to give the forums another shot. To be clear for others, in my email, I was saying that I've really appreciated your posts for their thoughtfulness and tact and wasn't trying to get ya to come read my post -- my posts aren't works of art but thank you for the compliment Briansnat really said it well. Glad you're back in whatever capacity you feel comfortable and I hope you increase your overall experience by participation in whatever way you feel appropriate! yay Thank you. I've corrected my post. You and WebChimp both wrote me and I appreciated both messages very much. I meant to mention you both but got mixed up. Clearly I need someone to escort me around today and watch to ensure that I don't make any mistakes. It has been that sort of day. (Or it could be that my beloved is right and I should spend some quality time sleeping to recharge my brain.) Carolyn
  5. Mrbort emailed me as did WebChimp and suggested I come back to see what he wrote (both of which were lovely, well-written, and intelligent). Then I saw what Briansnat wrote: I'm glad to see that there are standard rules I can apply to avoid trouble since it is clear that I am too thin-skinned to be in the scary parts of the forum. I'm hoping the hiking area doesn't talk about micros, logging, lamp posts, cemeteries, or numbers. I think that might be a gentle place for me to hang out, kind of midway between the beginner's forum and the general topics discussion. (Are there any trigger-topics in the hiking area I should avoid? Any scary debates about "real hikers" vs wimpy hikers? Do the barefoot hikers occasionally sling smelly organic glop at the shod hikers? Any ugly debates comparing mountain hiking to swamp hiking? Anything I should be aware of before I spend time there?) You are quite right that I found the thread on finding beautiful places to place caches far more useful than I ever imagined a forum thread could be. Even my beloved found it useful. He has promised to hit up his colleagues for materials on historic spots and I'm happily pouring over maps. He used to have connections with gov doc repositories and is thinking about how to get old topos to view. (He loved that idea, btw.) I will probably be spending a bit less time here and a bit more time with topo maps, which is all to the good I think. I've decided not to leave (but to discontinue participation in this thread). So thank you and I apologize for the unnecessary drama. Carolyn
  6. I am not sure what you meant this to mean. But on the surface, it just sounds so, so, so contrived and manipulative an even bordering on arrogance. If you hide a cache and you feel others have some obligation to fullfil, whether in logging, hiding caches, etc etc, well, then, you're just in the wrong game. I'm so sorry that my motives don't meet with other people's approval. I wasn't aware that there could only be one motive for anything or that mine were so heinous that they need to be attacked over and over. Clearly I'm in the wrong place or playing the wrong game. I suggest you read what I wrote again and notice that it applies to me and my beloved and only to us. I never said anything about anyone else. I'm done here. My friend was right to tell me to stay away from the forums, that they suck the fun out of geocaching. Carolyn
  7. What about those that aren't married? Or don't cache with their spouse etc. They count. How does this work? If two single geocachers (one of each gender) meet each other while caching and then get married a year later, do they both no longer count? Perhaps just the male no longer counts? Or just the female? Or perhaps they both count if they sleep around and don't cache together? Are you primarily trying to determine whether geocaching is a good place to find sexual partners? Carolyn
  8. If giving back to the community requires the hiding of caches, I have a hard time agreeing with this. (As mentioned many times in these forums, giving back can be done in many ways without hiding any caches.) The feeling that a cacher should hide caches to pay back is one of the things that leads to lame caches. Someone who really isn't into the hiding part of this game, would be more likely to just toss a film can into the bushes than would someone who is hiding because they want to. Please don't feel you must hide a cache. Wait until you want to hide a cache. It would lead to better caches in the long run. (there would still be lame caches, but maybe a lot fewer.) I obviously did not write well enough for you to understand what I was saying. I apologize. It is difficult to find the balance between writing too much and writing too little Here is what I said regarding that: There are many other things we can do to help out and some of them we will do. Some we won't. We will not, for example, take any sort of responsible position in our local group. That would drive us screaming from the room in no time flat. We know this because we've experienced the universality of small group politics many times and each time we regret becoming involved. I could go over our list of options for you if you'd like, but I think it is a diversion from the topic. Also, I am not certain why I would need to list and justify why each thing we could do is either appropriate for us or not appropriate for us. I think all you really need to know is that we have gone over the list and marked the things that we know we won't hate and might actually like. Second, I'm not sure how hiding a "lame cache" is a service to the community or helps build the world we would like to see or why you think that is what we plan to do. I think you are reading some of your own biases into what I wrote and it isn't justified. Carolyn
  9. I am a very inexperienced person here, however, we recently hit 100 finds. At this point it seems to me that we have the following choices: 1) We can continue to freeload on other people's work that they have done to make caching in the Midsouth delightful; Or 2) We can find some way to give back to the community to help it improve and get better. The second seems to me to be the ethical choice. Given that, the issue is really how can we help? What can we do? Or more precisely what can we do that will fit with our personalities, knowledge, and experience and won't cause us to run screaming for the door? If we can find something that we enjoy doing, all the better. One thing we can do is place a nice hide, something that would bring pleasure to other people and something that helps build the community of good caches. I don't really see a hide as a gift to individual cachers. I see it as a building block within the community. It is kind of like planting trees. It is something you do because it helps you build the world you want to live in, even if it won 't benefit you directly. Each person does something that helps build the world. But no one does exactly the same things at the same times and that is the way it should be. I do not know how I will feel about TFTC! logs. I like well-written personal logs with photos in the same way I enjoy adventure travel books. I adore reading other people's logs. But I think it is important to me personally to have some things in my life that I let go of, that I do without expectations or do anonymously. Placing a box filled with pretty things in the wilderness seems like that sort of activity to me. Carolyn
  10. Thanks to everyone for giving me a true sense of how rare the cache deletion issue is. I cannot tell you how relieved I am. Carolyn
  11. Funny that you say that. We just returned from a trip to Denver and we stopped at Mingo on the way. Our log. I shot some wonderful pictures of wildflowers there but couldn't find a reliable internet connection at our destination to log everything before I had to clean off my hard disk for the work I needed to do that weekend. Plus, I was under a lot of pressure to get done with the logging already so that I could do what other people wanted me to do. So my photos suffered from my haste. I really truly thought that Mingo would be this lovely little town (because it had a highway sign and everything). I laughed when I realized that the most exciting part of Mingo were the railroad tracks and the cache. That is an odd reason. I think a lot of people here like DNF logs since they do them themselves. I will watch for that when I'm caching outside of Tennessee and don't have a good feel for the cache owners. Carolyn
  12. No, no, no! Wrong lesson. Ice cream is therapeutic. It is the perfect combination of creamy coldness and sweet goodness that is both the reward and cooling balm after a long hike in the heat. It has important psychological benefits and it restores the body to proper functioning after exercise. Those people who believe that ice cream is for weight gain or ice cream is just about taste are heathens. Sober people around the world agree that ice cream is medicinal. Carolyn
  13. Thank you so much. I'd wondered how you found the places you had found. My beloved was especially impressed and interested in your caches with their combination of history and hiking. Since my beloved actually works with the local historians, perhaps he can tease out some ideas from them during a faculty meeting. A hunt for historic ruins will be fun, I think. Carolyn
  14. Wow! These are great suggestions and most of them I hadn't thought of. When I posted this question, I thought I might get one or two good ideas but instead you've all come up with dozens of ways we can take to approach this and most of them will work with our personalities and situation. i shared the thread with my beloved and we're going to start taking some of your advice. I'm a map lover and he's a historian, so between the two of us we should be able to find something interesting. Carolyn
  15. I'm not taking it personally but you're making it appear that the only poster who understands what the thread is about is you and that certainly isn't the case. Others appear to understand what I have said. I apologize if you find my posts not up to your standards. Please don't delete my posts or email me telling me how to improve them! I think I am the referenced person who had the impression that many cache owners felt it was ok to delete logs. I gleaned that impression from this thread, from the thread on deleting logs used for a challenge cache and from last month's ALR thread. So it was not merely this thread, though this one contributed to my impression and fears. I have since learned that log deletions are relatively rare and so I'm no longer sitting up in bed biting my nails and moaning (which is a great relief to my beloved since he can now get some sleep). Carolyn
  16. I know that this is probably like asking a writer, "where do you get your ideas?" but I'm giving it a try anyway. I am absolutely in awe of some of the sites picked by some of the hiders in my area. They are so beautiful. However, I have no idea how they found them. So for those of you who set caches in beautiful or interesting out of the way places how do you locate them? Do you pour over topo maps and then investigate likely areas? Do the sites simply pop out at you when you are doing other things? Is there a strategy you employ to structure your search? When you are scoping out possible hiding places do you spend a lot of time hiking off-trail? My personal thinking is that I need topo maps for this area and then I need to spend time inching over the map, comparing it to existing caches, marking possible places for visits, then hiking those possibilities a few times over the course of the year to get a sense of how the terrain changes through the seasons (otherwise how does one assess the terrain rating). My beloved thinks that I am making it harder than it needs to be. I do admit that it sounds like a lengthy process the way I'm conceiving it. How do you do it? How long does it take you? Carolyn
  17. All true and generally I'm willing to lose things to rare events. I kind of see rare events as 100 year floods that give one a chance to rebuild. My concern was that I couldn't tell how rare the events were. I didn't know whether I was living in a flood plain that experienced regular, frequent floods or a sedate valley with few floods. Carolyn
  18. OK. Then I will stop fretting about it. (I don't criticize caches. I generally try to avoid doing anything that would hurt someone's feelings.) So the photos don't disappear. Nothing is actually deleted. All that is going on is a flag set in the database is set to not show the log. That is a relief. As to the photos being on my machine, that is not the case after I process and upload them to the log. I just don't have room on my hard drive. The photos from last weekend's caching event are still waiting my final disposal. That folder of photos (pretty much from just two caches) takes up 529 MB. Part of the "problem" is that we prefer to go to caches that we can hike to or that are truly beautiful (often the same thing). Here in the Midsouth, that often means hiking in wetlands. (Many of the cache owners here are incredibly good at finding beautiful wet places for caches.) The wetlands are simply breathtaking and they change from day to day. Being in the swamp is like being inside an enormous animal whose inner musculature moves around one, changing in the blink of an eye. In addition, the quality of light that filters through the cypress trees means that most pictures I take will be beautiful. So it is truly difficult to simply discard the poorer photos, because often there are very few poor photos. But keeping the photos means that I run out of hard drive space in about a month. I have compromised with myself. I process the photos for the logs and upload them. Then I choose a maximum of 3 photos for my screensaver, process those, and put them in my Best of Geocaching folder. Usually I pick something I haven't used for the logs since I can view those pictures on the logs. Then I delete everything else. So I actually don't have most of the photos I've uploaded anywhere but here. The prose is not such a big deal because I compose it in MacJournal and keep the original compositions. But text takes up much less room than photos. I suspected as much. I only considered it because of the possibility of losing the photos. If log deletions are truly rare and if the photos still exist, I won't worry so much. (An additional site to store the logs and photos really is a lot of work that I don't want to do unless the photos and logs are truly at risk.) Thank you so much for your comforting and informative reply! Carolyn
  19. Thank you! I will keep that in mind. Iowa, huh? It is a place I'd never thought to go. But geocaching is like that for us. It keeps leading us to places we would never have thought of before. That makes sense combined with what Isonzo Karst described. Thank you! Thank you. I will settle down now. It is easier now that I understand a bit more about how the logs work under the covers and how, when, and how often deletions actually occur. To live fully one has to expect some risk, but it is much more comforting to me to know how much risk and the nature of the risk. It seems that the log deletion posts are an artifact of the forums and not grounded in some sort of high frequency in the real world. My beloved had suggested to me that this was the case last night and suggested that I either ask for more information or stop reading the forums. So I asked. Carolyn
  20. I spend a lot of time on my logs. I've been told that good logs with good photos (at least some of which should be of happy people finding the cache) are desirable. I try to make most of my cache logs tiny works of art. If the cache is particularly good, I try that much harder to do a good job with my log and photos. It often takes all evening to log the 2-4 caches we've found in a day. Sometimes it takes two days to get the editing done just right for a special cache. Sometimes I write several logs for the same event and then pick the best in order to get the right tone. In other words, I put effort into this. This whole series of conversations in which it seems that cache owners are laying in wait to find excuses to delete logs has me deeply upset. So I have questions: In cases where the language and photos used are clearly G rated (PG-13 at most) and there are no spoilers or bogus logs, how often are caches actually deleted? 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? How often? If a log is deleted, what happens to the photos? If one of my logs is deleted (unfairly) and I bring it up with Groundspeak, how much of a period of arbitration does this require? Is this just shy of needing lawyers? How long does it take? Is it likely to end in unhappy feelings all around and not be worth the time and effort? If Groundspeak reinstates my log, are the photos lost for good or will they be restored as well? If Groundspeak does not reinstate my log, is there a way they can give me back my prose and photos to store on my own computer? If I were to set up a blog for my logs and if instead of writing the actual log on the cache page I put a link to the write-up and photos (housed safely on the blog) would cache owners be ok with this? Or would it get the sad cache owner response to people who don't log well? Carolyn
  21. Hi Carol, my post linked back the Listing Guidelines. The section on the Logging of All Physical Caches was added very recently, April 3, 2009. You'll read many threads here that are older than that, and that may reference the cache owner's right to delete logs for little cause. That is no longer true. Keystone is both a Global Forum moderator, and an experienced volunteer reviewer, definitely a reliable voice for what is allowed. Briansnat is a really nice guy who moderates in the Getting Started section. I'd call his voice reliable too (except that he's been incredibly obdurate over the U.S. Geocacher of the Year 2003 thing, so I'm not 100% "up" with 'snat these days. ) Thank you for the information! I'd been proceeding under the impression that Briansnat was the repository of all information worth knowing since he answered my question about photos in logs and gave me additional hints on how to make them more pleasing. Keystone seemed very authoritative but lots of people do and disagree with each other, making me unsure of who to believe. It was especially true after the spirited discussion on the ALR thread after the change in the rules went through. It left me unsure of what was permitted and what was not (except that I definitely knew that photos with funny hats couldn't be required). I am still not sure how to recognize an ALR. It is comforting to know that logs cannot be deleted willy nilly without substantial reason. Carolyn
  22. No, the answer to that question lies here, in the listing guidelines, and also in Keystone's response, post #5 of this thread.Isonzo, Is this indeed true? My impression from reading the endlessly long thread on ALRs was that cache owners could delete for any reason at all except where someone fails to fulfill an ALR. I am new to the forum. Who here is a reliable voice for what is allowed and what is not? Is it Keystone? Or Briansnat? Or someone else? Carolyn Cache owners can delete logs in a few circumstances. I'm pretty sure that this is limited to bogus logs, spoilers, and potty logs. Of course, the cache described by the OP is an ALR, so it doesn't really matter. It's the worse kind of ALR, in my opinion because it actually is an attempt to control not only things that people do while caching, but the reasons behind caching and any future actions of the cachers. It's a silly demand, in my opinion, and one that I would happily disobey. actually I would just put the CO caches on my ignore list and go on caching. Jim This is the mostly likely result for me as well. I generally work to avoid confrontation (despite what I look like on this thread). My guess is that we'll be avoiding areas with people who support log deletion. Happily we hadn't planned to go to South Carolina or Idaho, so no loss. As to Mississippi, we do cache there but we'll just have to be much more careful about the caches we go there for. It would just devastate me if someone without warning decided to delete a log I'd spent a lot of time on and I lost the prose and photos thereby. Though perhaps I need to start finding a separate home for my logs and photos since this one frequently seems so fragile. Carolyn
  23. I'm not sure what a "Bucket List" is. Definition? It's coined from the movie 'Bucket List'. It refers to a list of things you want to do before you "kick the bucket." That is correct! I have watched the movie 3-times, since finding out May 1, that I have Bladder Cancer. The tumor was removed May 4 (T1 High Grade). I am having "BCG" treatments now (randomly over 2-years). Round "1" is over at the end of this month. So the 2nd week of July, I am taking a week, from work, to travel and Geocache. Bladder Cancer is NOTORIOUS for coming BACK (I'll have to have a Cystoscopic-exam every 3-months for at least 2-years) . Now, I may live to be 700-years old (I am 62 now), but I am taking no chances w/this Baldder Cancer, so I am taking advantage of whatever time I have left, and am making a "Bucket List" (if you have not seen the movie, allow me to recommend it). I am going to live like I am dying! So the 2nd week of July (plant shut-down) I am taking off to GEOCACHE. I live in Central Virginia and am thinking of driving to KEY WEST for CACHING Anyone out there Cached in the Key West area? Thank you both for the definition. That makes sense. And shouldn't we always lived immersed in the moment, drinking in experience as if we would die tomorrow? It sounds like a worthy quest. My beloved added New Mexico to our list because it is, without much question in our minds, the most beautiful state in the country.
  24. No, the answer to that question lies here, in the listing guidelines, and also in Keystone's response, post #5 of this thread. Isonzo, Is this indeed true? My impression from reading the endlessly long thread on ALRs was that cache owners could delete for any reason at all except where someone fails to fulfill an ALR. I am new to the forum. Who here is a reliable voice for what is allowed and what is not? Is it Keystone? Or Briansnat? Or someone else? Carolyn
  25. Why punish them for logging? Even a "found your stupid cache" tells you the cache is alive, doing well, and perhaps even living up to the purpose for which you placed it. Yes it's nice to get nice logs. However some folks flat out don't have anything more to day than. TFTC and you would make them get stage fright to test their writing skills by saying something even remotely interesting about your cache. I thought you supported deleting logs. Or is it only if the cache is found for the wrong reason? Carolyn
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