Grasscatcher
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Posts posted by Grasscatcher
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FIRST......
Set your unit on whatever format,datum,etc that the source data is in (that you are wanting to INPUT)
Input the data............., then switch your unit back to whatever format that you (normally) use or just want to use.
Your unit does all the conversions internally, totally hassle free....
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The benefits of using it far outweigh having to calibrate it two or three times during an eight hour caching hike. Things I have learned are not to calibrate it standing next to my car or next to a chain link fence.
Still waiting for someone to explain the benefits or as Bamboozle said 'you don't know what you're missing'.
Can someone explain what exactly I'm missing and/or the benefits that would warrant me spending extra on a GPS with a 3 axis compass? I've hiked and cached for many years and never felt the need for one, and all that seems to be posted about them is problems with calibration, not working properly, I keep mine switched off etc. A 'compass' derived from my GPS the minute I walk a few steps gives me a bearing that I know is accurate, what more can I possibly want?
@Sussamb, I absolutely and totally agree (with your assessment)! I don't believe anyone will be able to give you a good reason,...... because there isn't one , except for instant gratification convenience and "bragging rights"...HA !
"They" talk about how important it is that the compass points to the cache while they are stopped. Well, DUH, they can't "get there" while they are stopped anyway....so.....????
I'm assuming they were moving the correct direction BEFORE stopping, so unless they have extremely poor short term memory, they should still know which direction they need to go when they start again.
......and besides, the number of forum posts would drop dramatically if you took away the "compass" (and best battery?)posts.
There are WAY more people that DO NOT know how to use their E compass than there are that DO KNOW.
If users learned how to use their GPS (with the compass turned off) FIRST then later turned them on, they would be VERY surprised.
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Does anyone know for sure if units like Oregons, Montanas with heart rate monitor ant wireless capability (and Garmin chest strap) will produce an acceptable heart rate log while indoors and very possibly without a constant sat lock or at least less than ideal reception conditions?
BaseCamp and other softwares will report the heart rate but it's a part of the trackpoint data reported.....so....if no sat lock,no trackpoints logged therefore no heart rate data????
Just wondering about getting a good heart rate log indoors at the gym.
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Upon eventual release of this unit, I'll be curious about these things:
1) Has the track and odometer recording method been modified to NOT include straight-line connections between power cycles?
I certainly hope NOT, because that's exactly how it's supposed to work! .....and exactly how you have told it to work with your specific settings.
If you want to minimize that action, then change your settings.
What do you have your "auto archive" setting on?
Do you "clear current track" before logging a portion of track that is important?
So as not to hijack this thread, discussion on this topic should be in a new post.
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Are you talking about geotagging pictures taken with the GPS (62SC??) or pics taken with a separate camera?
Pics taken with the GPS are tagged with the GPS actual time they are taken (accurate to the second) so that makes your question a mute point.
If you're talking about pics taken with another camera, then, if there needs to be a time offset used, then use it........but then you're talking about WAAAAAAAAYY more time difference than would occur due to difference in type of track logging interval....and what source would you use as the "correct" time?????
If it's THAT important to you to geotag pics to an absolutely precise time, then me thinks you would be "gagging on an ant and swallowing an elephant". Good grief, it's just meant to be a visual representation of where on the track a pic was taken......and by most methods, you can't even tell which way the camera was being pointed/ direction the pic was taken. (but you CAN tell that using EGPS if the pic was taken with the GPS)
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"In terms of accuracy, wouldn't auto record and most often be less accurate than setting it to record every 1 second?"
Not less accurate....just less efficient."
" How often does the units record a coordinate when auto record and most often is set? "
Here's the concept, it only takes two points to "describe" a straight line, so if you are moving straight, the unit logs fewer points. When you start to change direction, the unit logs an increased number of points to accurately "describe" that path.......up to and including as fast a logging rate of one / second. ....which is the fastest/most often that the GPS can /will log. So, really it just DOESN'T log points when it doesn't NEED to. It's exactly the same degree of accuracy, but uses fewer trackpoints. It's not nearly as important now as it used to be when GPS track lengths were limited by the number of trackpoints allowed.
Now, I'M totally confused!
" I still don't understand why the GPX files have tracks in it."
A gpx file from a GPS unit is a text file log of WHATEVER data the unit was doing at the time. Position,elevation,speed,etc....everything! It (a gpx file) is just a "note to memory" of any and all the actions of that GPS unit for that specific point in time.
Note that ALL the data is logged exactly at the point in time when it happens, and that TIME IS LOGGED ALSO......with that specific data.
All track #1 data (every trackpoint with all its data) is logged while it is being traveled, then when another path is traveled that is also logged, but that(track 2) happens at a different point in time which is also logged.
Example: You sat at a table and ate breakfast yesterday and wrote down where you were, what foods you ate and what time it was. Today you may have eaten the same type of food for breakfast, sat at the same table , etc.......and again you wrote all the information down, and you wrote it on the same notepad as yesterday.
Those are two separate instances, you can't mix and mingle them because they happened at different times. The two "Notes" you wrote describing them are (track 1 & Track 2), and the note pad you wrote the two separate notes on is (the GPX file)
Your last paragraph REALLY REALLY confuses me......because what you describe as what you want, is EXACTLY WHAT YOUR GPS DOES DO !
Tracks are NOT some weird / different type of object....it's just data. Trackpoint after tracpoint after trackpoint.
If you want to save your location as a separate waypoint, what you actually are doing is just creating a separately identified package for that specific location on the "breadcrumb trail" (track) that your GPS is continuously making.
If you don't want tracks created, just turn track logging OFF. Then you might as well just carry around a rock.
If you turn your GPS on at 10AM and off at 10 PM, the track that is created is made up of (thousands) of trackpoints (each with all it's own specific data) listed in chronological order!!!!!
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"Thank you very much for that detailed response, but I'm still confused. Most of my GPX files are generated by my Garmin 60CSX. The files were saved on to the memory card with auto record method and saved most often. I believe that most if not all the coordinates are saved since I saved it on to a memory card.
On my last trip I started using my new Garmin 62S. Coordinates are saved every second.
Now I'm still confused between the concept of track and segment. I guess I don't need a perfect understanding. I just want the coordinates to be listed from start to finish and sorted by time as mentioned in the op. Will G7toWin permit this? "
@Sgt S,
On the 60CSx, by "logging" the tracks to the card, ALL the data is there, and the "auto record" method, and "most often" interval is the most efficient and accurate way to log tracks.
Now, on the 62, you can't log the tracks to the card, but that's OK because the tracks are logged to the internal memory and ALL THE DATA IS RETAINED. Even if you "save" a track on the 62, all the data is retained. Just be assured that all the data is there.
Note: You can PUT a GPX file with tracks in it onto your memory card (and the unit can "read" and display the data) but you cannot have the unit LOG the track to the card.
The new models (like the 62) "file system" is different than on the older 60.
Note that on the 62,you now have an Archive function. That's a whole nuther concept .....that apparently even a number of so called experienced users do not understand the concept.
You can set your unit to "archive" track data daily, or weekly, or wrap when full, etc.
For whatever archive period you have your unit set on, your unit creates a gpx file with all the tracks connected. (duh,the OMG "dreaded" straight line !!) It's doing exactly what the user has told it to do by their choice of settings.Note: the user can also prevent the straight lines by their actions at the beginning and end of logging a track......nuther topic...
Daily archive= one archive gpx file /day (data tied together within that day)
Weekly archive=one archive gpx file /week (data tied together within that week)
(other length archive= same o,same o)
I don't use G7toWin but I'll try and take a look at it's capabilities. I've go it, just never use it.
In EGPS , within the track file, EVERY trackpoint logged by the GPS is listed in the order it was logged, and with ALL the data that that model GPS logged that specific trip.
Based on how you said they were logged, in the gpx files on the card from your 60CSx, and the gpx files from your 62, all the track data is there.
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Grass catcher - what GPS and what settings? The recorded level of detail your describe would not be available for all devices.
In my earlier post I believe I said later model Garmins... I've got a 76CSx, a 78S,an Oregon 550, and a Montana 650. The 76CSx doesn't have wireless (for heart rate,etc) but the rest of'em will log all of the data.
Of course Heart Rate, Depth,Cadence all require external equipment which connects(talks to) your GPS wirelessly.
Whatever data your model of GPS is capable of recording, that data is logged for every trackpoint.
We still don't know the specific model GPS that the OP has, or what it is exactly that they are wanting to do with the data.
edited to add: I see in a later post...60 & 62.
Sgt S,..... Specifically, what are you wanting to do?, can you send a GPX file?
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Just FYI...
For EVERY trackpoint the GPS logs, I can tell the following info....in list format....
Coordinates (in what ever format you want to see them)
Date created and time (local)(down to the second the trackpoint was logged)
Heart Rate (if monitor was used while track was logged)
Dist from start
Elapsed time
Dist to next
Bearing
Grade
Speed
Time (elapsed between trackpoints)
Temperature (if sensor was present and used)
Depth (if depth sensor was present and used)
Cadence
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I think I'm somewhat confused in the information within a GPX file, specifically in regards to the concept of a track. I don't understand why GPX files have multiple tracks in it. Why can't they just list all of the GPS coordinates in one long list?
So I need your help here because I'm trying to simplify things for myself. I have a bunch of GPX files and there are various tracks inside. How can I get the GPS coordinates to be listed from start to finish without navigating through the tracks? For example, if I turn my GPS device on at 10 AM and turn it off at 10 PM, I want every single coordinates to be listed from 10 AM to 10 PM in one continuous scrolling list. This way I can easily locate the coordinates that I'm after by locating the time that I'm after.
Look at Expert GPS by Topografix....
What model of GPS do you have? Older model Garmins discarded some track info if you "saved" a track (because saved tracks were limited to 500 trackpoints) but if the tracks were logged to the memory card (if so equipped),then all the data was retained in that version of the file.
Newer model Garmins do not have that limitation and all the track data is retained .
Tell me what model GPS and specifically what it is that you are wanting to do.
With Expert GPS I can tell exactly when I started a track, exactly when I was at any specific trackpoint anywhere along that track, etc........all displayed in list form....isn't that what you are wanting? ALL the info that the GPS logged, for EVERY trackpoint that it logged. That is true even if you were logging trackpoints at the max number of 1/sec.
Sorry Bear & Ragged, but every coordinate and elevation for every trackpoint that the GPS logged on that track is listed. It has nothing to do with taking up too much GPS capacity.
I can tell exactly what date, time, exact coordinates,elevation, etc I was at on any given hike dating back 10 years.
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If accurate altitude/elevation is important to you then calibrate your altimeter at a known elevation point before you go out. You can determine the elevation at your house by topo map, checking a known elevation point like a Benchmark, or at a nearby airport then return home and see what your reading is. Do this several times and average the results and you'll have a reasonably good guesstimation for a number to set your unit on when you start out.
With your unit calibrated when you leave, and set on auto calibration and variable elevation, the GPS elevation data gradually over time corrects any errors it detects in the barometric elevation.
Any quick barometric pressure changes will still cause variations between the two (GPS Elev and Baro Elev)
Edited to add:
Look at the elevation displayed on your satellite page. I "believe" you'll find that to be the GPS elevation.
Now, look on your altitude/barometer. That is the barometric altitude/elevation which the user can set/calibrate.
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It's just a fact that Altitude is the least accurate axis of the GPS.
It's not rocket science, it's just common sense and physics.
GPS determines / calculates horizontal position by trianglutation. That takes (a min of) three signals.
Then there needs to be another signal, preferably from a different angular position (horizon to overhead) to calculate altitude.
Think of being directly over a table and then someone asks you how long the legs are....you would have to change your position to be able to tell.
Even horizontal position accuracy is affected by (satellite)signal position. Haven't you ever been out with your GPS and notice that your EPE seemingly refuses to get below 100-200ft when you are wanting to log an accurate waypoint? The next time that happens, look at your satellite screen. Very likely, a high percentage of the visible sats are clustered almost directly overhead. instead of being "scattered".
Come back an hour later and conditions (satellite positions) will have changed.
That also explains the bad results down in canyons. Blocked signals or signals reflected off of canyon walls result in "bad calculations"...... ie results.
Then doesn't it naturally follow that the best GPS results come when the user is "in the open" where the GPS has a clear view of the sky where it can recieve signals from multiple positions in the sky?
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I read this thread earlier this morning, but was reluctant to offer some input at the time. I certainly would never post information that I knew at the time to be erroneous. Additionally, I don't like the idea of presenting wrong data mistakenly thinking it was correct. In the past, I was accused of presenting a false opinion in this forum and, consequently, temporarily declined to offer something here. However, I think with posting a disclaimer, one can come to their own conclusions regarding the validity of that which I will post below.
DISCLAIMER: I was unfortunately subject to a strenuous disagreement with my opinion regarding a similar subject, determination of elevation, or altitude, several years ago.
http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=189245&view=findpost&p=3438512
Please take this into consideration regarding the validity of my following contribution.
The effect surrounding vertical, natural surroundings on the accuracy of the horizontal location has been discussed on several occasions herein and on another forum. The consensus is that being at the bottom of a canyon, ravine, or similar is that results in a less accurate indication than being directly above, but in the same general area. Furthermore, if signal blockage due to canyon walls decrement accuracy of longitude and latitude determinations, IM(not so)HO, the determination of elevation, or altitude, will similarly, but not necessarily equally, be decremented.
.....er....ahhh....what did he say?????
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I personally feel that there is nothing better than Expert GPS by Topografix for any data manipulation. Wpts,Tracks (editing,joining,etc),Routes.
For track joining, (2 or 3 or 4...)first verify they are all going the same direction, then in the List of Tracks, select each in the order you want them joined, right click and choose Join Tracks.....done....
Try the free trial.....full functioning /time limited.
I have Basecamp and keep it updated but RARELY even use it.
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Yes to both replies. Device has most current firmware, PC and device have the most current software. A weird event. Will upgrade to Win 8 on the PC in a couple of weeks and will see if PC can communicate with device then. There are gremlins in the world. Thanks for quick reply.
I have two different friends that say that upgrading to WIN 8 was the biggest mistake they ever made......mainly due to incompatibility and other weird operational quirks.
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Upgraded to Win 7 and lost ability for device (Garmin GPSmap 60Cx) to be recognized by either Firefox or Internet Explorer. Had Garmin on line for over an hour, let them control my PC, and no luck in finding/fixing the trouble. Fortunately have a laptop running XP which works just fine. But the laptop is getting old and I'd really rather use my PC.
Any ideas? Have deleted all Garmin software and reloaded with no change.
It takes a different USB driver for Win 7 than for XP. Did you go to Garmin's site and download and install the latest USB drivers? Surely the Garmin rep tried that....
Is your unit in USB mass storage configuration? Main Menu/System/Enter/Interface... does it say Connected at the top of the page, or Not Connected?
When plugged in to your PC (and turned on)it should say Connected....then (Garmin,or NMEAIn/NMEA out,or text,or None)(use Garmin) then 4800...then toggle down to the bottom of the page to USB Mass Storage..Enter.
At that point it should show up a a separate drive in (Windows) Explorer. (NOT IE)Up until that time, it will not show up as a separate drive in Win Explorer. Web updater will find it, and can do it's thing, but you can't see contents etc.
Do you have Garmin "Web Updater" installed? If so, hook up your unit by USB, start WebUpdater, let it try to find the device. It will generally do it on it's own but you may have to click on Find Device.
It will check for available updates (both for itself, USB Drivers,and the unit)
My 76CSx works just fine with Win 7 (32 bit)
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End of conversation.
After all,, I'm not the one with the problem or lack of understanding.
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NO renaming.....your unit was going to save as XXX but you renamed as "001"...
"inoperative for a very long time(see bug 14 & 15)"is BS.....I just wirelessly sent wpts (successfully) from Montana to Oregon 550
Quote... "Further more, When I reviewed the freshly created waypoints on each GPSr, each waypoint contained identical information, including creation date and time."
.....but not on the receiving unit (if Montana)...it doesn't display date /time on "Wpt mgr" list for wirelessly sent points.
Knowing all the info in the posts above, the solution is still the same......a unique naming procedure is required.
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Yep, but you cheated by renaming....right?
now send some wirelessly, from another unit, and see the results.....
....no time stamp.....and see where they get put/saved....
different, huh!....not the daily wpt file
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@alandb is correct in what he posted.
Not a result of recent firmware update that I'm aware of. More a result of the new "file structure" of newer units.
What about wirelessly sending different wpts of the same name (from 2 additional units) to a third unit that already has a wpt of that number?
Where do they all go and how are they named?
Just think of all the sources of waypoints....multiple gpx files in internal memory, multiple gpx files on the card, multiple wpts wirelessly sent from different units , etc
What all this is saying , is that a user better devise a very unique naming system.
ie..."ferget" numbering systems.......and now back full loop to part of AC's post....just uniquely name them as you go.
....or, as Paul Harvey would say....that's the "Rest of the Story"
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Do you have an explanation, or are you asking for one?
I already know how it happens. After all, it's on the unit right in front of me. I created it and could duplicate it.
I'm trying to get you/others to figure out how it happens / is created, so that when you see it, you understand what you're seeing.
That's (probably) also the reason (at least explains) why users can no longer (are no longer allowed to) restart the waypoint counter except by hard reset.
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@TP & AC,
Here's a puzzle for you. My 78S is similar to the OPs 62. How can I be sitting here with numerous waypoints on my unit with this condition......wpts are of both numbered and named variety, and on Wapoint Mgr list the list starts with 001,then 073 , then 091,then "named" variety . But here is the kicker......when I press "mark" the unit tells me that the next wpt (in the normal numbering sequence) will be named "001". No renaming and no resets have been done.
Do you understand how that is not only possible but normal? Also that I can have multiple "001"s (or other numbers) without any of them being remamed?
No, I do not understand how/why that is, without having access to your waypoints with identical names. Is the GPSr amending file names with hidden characters?
No
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@ Sgt Strider,
Did you ever get your questions sufficiently answered?
If not, I have both (or several) models (78S and Oregon 550 and Mont 650) and can explain the similarities and differences between them and their different file system structures. Not here on the forum.....contact me at churst40@gmail.com.
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@vendeta2k,
AC is on the right track. On newer models, "hard reset" is the only way to restart the counter. HOWEVER...
don't do that just yet. From where you are in the count, it would be much easier to just "save and edit" (to 001,002,003,004,005) the next few (5)waypoints you save, then let the counter take over from there. The counter will still be wanting to name a "next" wpt as 006. When you "Name" a wpt , the unit doesn't "use up or count" that sequence number.
Doing it that way ,you won't have to go back through and re-do all your settings. Further along in the count, it's kinda 6 of one vs half dozen of another.
Older models you could restart the count several ways, but not now. There is whole lot more to the numbering system than is understood.
@TP & AC,
Here's a puzzle for you. My 78S is similar to the OPs 62. How can I be sitting here with numerous waypoints on my unit with this condition......wpts are of both numbered and named variety, and on Wapoint Mgr list the list starts with 001,then 073 , then 091,then "named" variety . But here is the kicker......when I press "mark" the unit tells me that the next wpt (in the normal numbering sequence) will be named "001". No renaming and no resets have been done.
Do you understand how that is not only possible but normal? Also that I can have multiple "001"s (or other numbers) without any of them being remamed?
GPS "Compass" Anomaly
in GPS technology and devices
Posted · Edited by Grasscatcher
A number of the above posts demonstrate a point I tried to make......people confuse several issues.
I'll agree that things can get confusing because even on a GPS that DOESN'T have a compass, one of the pages is called a "compass" page.
People interchange the "pointer" with "compass". They are NOT the same.
I turn the "actual" compass off and strictly use the pointer (set on "bearing"). I hunt Benchmarks, and in rough terrain (the only kind there is where I hunt and hike), I'll establish a direction line following the pointer which is pointing to the specific coordinates I'm "going to". When I'm getting close to GZ, I'll drag one of my hiking poles and make a line in the dirt (or on rock) until the pointer swings around and essentially tells me "Hey Dummy, you passed it". Then I'll circle a little bit and come at GZ from a different direction, doing the same thing. Sometimes I'll do it even again for verification.
From that point even a blind squirrel can find the acorn.....X marks the spot!
That X was established without regard to cardinal direction, without magnetic interference from clothing, pocket contents, calibration,etc,etc.
When you turn the compass on and try to do the same thing, you will find that you have introduced multiple sources of possible variation.
Oh yeah, I've got four GPSs.....all with E Compasses. Three with 3 axis and one with 2 axis. Why, after my above opinions? Simple....to not have to carry additional equipment. If I need to determine the direction, I turn the compass on, calibrate it, use it as a compass, and turn it (and any possible source of error) back off.