Grasscatcher

There are "problems" with EVERYTHING. Some are real and some are just perceived problems due to operator inexperience. You'll note that a high percentage of the "problems" mentioned in the forum fall into the second category. Also note that Garmin just released a new update for the Vista H and the Legend H.

Maybe the US Forest Service or the BLM is in charge of making the maps. Here in the Colorado backcountry, we've noticed for years that everytime they put out a new map , more and more of our favorite roads and trails are "missing". HA !

Track length (as seen from space by the satellite) was 1140 and track length as measured on the ground was 1536 which includes the changes in elevation. Yes the elevation data came from DEM map data , but that does NOT make the test invalid. In fact it may actually be more valid. If you were to physically travel the exact path that I hand drew on the map, then downloaded that track data to your PC, and analyzed the data, the results would be as previously stated. The DEM data is probably more accurate than the GPS data due to that data axis (z) in the GPS being the least accurate (between x,y,& z) due to satellite positioning.

I just drew a track from the top of one of the nearby 14,000 ft peaks in NG TOPO software. I started drawing on a flat spot on top and I went down off a steep cliff. Track length was 1140 ft. Terrain distance (including elevation change) was 1536, so it shows both distances.

Alan, You shouldn't have to edit the registry. You don't have to do the Mickey Mouse stuff with NG Topo that you do with Mapsource to run it from the HD. Look on the information that came with the disks, and it will tell you how. You should be able to just load the Disk 1 and install it from there and put it where you want it. With older versions the different disks were copied to separate folders directly on "C", named CO_DO2 (second disk of Colorado), CO_DO3,etc. Newer versions place the map files(all the files on disk 2,3,4,etc) in separate folders for each disk in C:\program files\TOPO!\TPO_DATA.....in the CO_DO2 etc files. The program will be under Program Files......(and has an ! ), once the program is installed, the files you create (.tpo files) will be stored in a folder C:\TOPO (no "! ") don't get the two confused. Just install it from the disk drive onto C and then put disk 2 in and copy and paste it to the TPO_DATA folder. the correct new folder will be created and then go to disk 3,4,etc

Go here.....Expert GPS only $25 this week.....unbelieveable deal. http://www.regsoft.net/purchase.php3?produ...99&pc=3NP34 To the OPs question. Just edit the downloaded track to 500 or under trackpoints and upload it to your unit as a saved track, and use trackback. It will have more points than a route and thus follow "the line" better and what was the previous breadcrumb trail will also be visible as a colored line. You can visibly tell if you are right or left etc. All the time you are hiking ,you will be making your own "BC" trail. You don't need to follow in the exact same footprints, you just need to know when to go left or right at a fork in the trail and the general direction to travel. You may even find a better "line" to travel than the original trackmaker.

My all time favorite is my old Garmin 12XL.........it will STILL lead to a location just as fast as any other unit, and batteries (4) last for 3 forevers. No color,no maps, no compass,no altimeter,no autorouting,......just a great GPSr (that's 13+years old) that has been MANY MANY miles.

Going to several 14000 peaks in my area and to several NGS BM where the elevation and locations are "adjusted"(accurate to a gnat's rear) my GPS points are much closer to the old version. So, when USGS Topo's, official NGS Benchmarks, and GPS ,and the "old" Topo all agree within a very small margin of error and the "new" TOPO 2008 says something different to the tune of several hundred feet.......I would doubt if it is correct. That would also make the new profile feature kinda bogus. The new version says that several of Colorado's 54 "Fourteeners" are now no longer over 14000 ft. That's incorrect according to several calibrated altimiters and the most recent survey data.

Compare the elevation of Cloud Peak (12864 ft) on your screen shot of TOPO 2008 with the elevation of the same Cloud Peak from the older "obsolete version" 13166/13167 ft. Also note that the Mountain Peak symbol (2008 ver) is not even on the "top" I think Garmin still has some major data error problems.............

Easy question to answer........ Try Expert GPS from Topografix.........FREE trial then if you decide to buy , it's only around $60 for the complete US coverage. Also has(included) aerial photos. VERY responsive support and is constantly being updated and improved.

"All those saying you shouldn't use the magnetic compass are just too ignorant or lazy or whatever it is to figure out the benefit" The statement being made with absolutely no explanation as to "HOW" the compass is beneficial"\ or "better". Can I respectfully disagree with that very unhelpful and unenlightened statement ? If you are following the bearing pointer to a cache or ? and come to an obstacle, what will control your actions at that point is what you see on the map page or what you see physically on the ground in front of you. On the map page you might see a nearby road or trail to take, or, on the ground, the way around the obstacle might be obvious. Whether that way is N,S,E W is of no importance. The bearing pointer continues to point directly toward the end destination, no matter how far you must get "off course" to get around the obstacle. With "North Up", you can always tell your direction of movement by the direction of the location triangle on the map page.

North Up- Go to Map page>menu- toggle over to far left icon-orientation-North Up Bearing pointer- Same page- second icon from left- bottom choice Go To Line- Bearing or Course choices-Choose Bearing Use Find-select the cache-hit GoTo at bottom of page -Pointer will point the direction to the cache as soon as you start moving. Note: Unless you have selected a cache or other location to Go To , the pointer will not be visible. (because it does not have a bearing to point to) Do an experiment....save a waypoint at some familiar or easy location, maybe something goofy like a rock in the middle of an open field. Now walk off from it and do a Find> waypoint... select that wpt>Go To and page to the pointer page. Now start walking AWAY from the wpt, as soon as your unit detects your movement , the pointer will point behind you. Turn around and head toward the wpt and the pointer will point straight ahead of you. Note: it is detecting the direction of the GPSr MOVEMENT, Not whether you are holding the GPSr in front or to the side etc. Intentionally walk PAST the wpt and watch what the needle does. It will suddenly point behind you. Do that from several different directions and you will be surprised how close it will locate the point. Keep the GPSr antenna clearly exposed to the sats.

OK, let's get serious. Now that we have gotten past the "fun"..... leave the compass turned OFF. Use the bearing pointer to point/guide you to the coordinate point you are "going to". The compass does not know where the cache is and does not even care. It's trying to tell you which way is North and it can't even do a good job of doing that because you can't hold the unit both VERTICALLY (for the GPS to work best) and HORIZONTALLY ( the only position where the compass will work) AT THE SAME TIME. Try this....turn the compass OFF. Set the unit to display NORTH UP , and set the Pointer to BEARING. Use GO TO and select the coordinates of the Cache. Now, on the "Compass" page (compass off) the pointer will be pointing you to the cache location. You can tell which direction you are moving on the map page by which direction the little black triangle is pointing (when you are moving, not standing still). Left is West, Right is East, North is up, etc.It's easiest to ignore the map page and just leave it on the "Compass"/Pointer page (compass OFF) and choose data fields like distance to next,etc NOW, if you need to use the compass to project a waypoint for a multi cache.....while you are standing still, with the GPSr held flat, calibrate it and use it just like you would use a manual /magnetic compass.....then turn the Compass back OFF. Try it, you'll like it!.......and your compass will work accurately too. Look through the forum and find the many, many posts about compass errors, compass not working right, why did I get an "S" model ?, why doesn't Garmin "Fix" the compasses ?,etc Bottom line is....it's NOT THE COMPASSES..... Remember ...only use Compass when held flat, and standing still ,and use GPSr held nearly vertically and only when moving (except when marking a waypoint).

To poster #1 and Poster #2....... You have GOT TO BE KIDDING.......! Lay the unit on the ground or flat on your hand held out in front of you and.... TURN THE UNIT....NOT the "DORK"operator...

Neither the old blue legend or the new Legend CX have the "high sensitivity" chip, therefore no wandering or ghost tracking. ( the x only refers to the memory card in the E-trex series) You will come to appreciate the better reception of the 60Cx vs the Legend, resulting in fewer dropped signals under cover , but also resulting in some strange trackpoints. Just know that those bad ones are generally obvious (as you noticed) and can be edited away in Mapsource. Overall the track is more accurate. Other than that, just enjoy your new GPSr and keep asking questions.

In the 60,76 x series ,the reason they call it a "high sensitivity" chip is because it is highly sensitive......DUH ! That means that it receives and records more signals more often.....both good and not so good. Multipath and reflected signals when you are moving slow or standing still cause what you are seeing. If you don't like it, then use a dummied down version GPSr without the high sensitivity chip like the E-trex series.(note in above posts that the units without the "problem" are non "hs" units) Just wait and see, when the H series E-trex units get on the market, with the "hs" chip, they will have a similar "problem". What you are actually seeing is the increased sensitivity that allows better / greater reception in marginal areas. Units like some of the Magellans that constantly "average" won't show as much wandering. If you were to see the complete data from even one of the $5000-$10,000 surveyor grade GPSrs, it would be even worse, but thru software manipulation and filtering, positions are averaged and multipath signals are rejected so that final data is more accurate (and smoother). You can easily do some of the same "cleaning up" of the track in Mapsource. What you are seeing is not a "GPSr unit" problem, it is more of an "operator not understanding the GPSr" problem. This is not intended to sound critical. Not understanding what you are seeing leads to questions and that leads to answers and opinions, which lead to more experimentation, which lead to more understanding (or more questions)...etc.

To all of the above posters that are interested in the new elevation data in Topo 2008......DON'T BOTHER Compare old ver vs new ver (on Garmins viewer) and look at the elevations of various specific points . New ver is almost always incorrect and that makes any "new" profile feature totally worthless. Elevation differences are not consistent and range from 0 to several HUNDRED feet . This "lousy data" may be the reason for the reported "push back" of the release date.

Look for a case made by "GPS Outfitters" Cabela's and also other places online. Has strap on back for wearing on belt, also has removable shoulder strap, side mesh pockets for extra batteries, and front zip pocket for whatever. (I carry my external antenna there, also a magnetic compass)

I randomly checked elevations of eight different Colorado"Fourteeners" and found differences of 1 ft to 88 ft. Three of the eight are now no longer over 14,000. Also randomly checked several of the minor obscure mountain roads. New version is even less accurate than old ver was. (old wasn't anything to write home about) I was genuinely excited about the new version, but the more features/items I check , the less I like it.

The "old original version" (Alaska Hawaii,East West ver 2.00 & 3.00 Garmin Corp 1995-1999) is much more accurate on elevations. Some elevations old/new are different by several HUNDRED feet. Several of the 54 Colorado "Fourteeners" are now shown to be less that 14.000 ft elevation. Any one that has the older version, go to Garmin's site and use the viewer to zoom in on the new 2008 ver and do some direct comparison of a specific area in your old ver vs new in the same area. I started with the sample screen shot of Yosimite NP and noticed elevation differences. Then moved back into Colo. to areas I was more familiar with. Information was just as incorrect in both areas. With elevation data being that incorrect, wouldn't that also make the new "elevation profile" capability absolutely worthless? That's a new feature that's advertised as an "improvement"......I don't think so.....

The Sky is falling ! The sky is falling !........Well, maybe not, but the mountains are surely sinking! The elevation data in TOPO 2008 is "off the wall " incorrect as compared to the "old obsolete " version and USGS topos. The older being more correct! In my area of Colorado and every other area I've compared on Garmin's viewer, I see almost NO improvement in detail and a a marked degrading in accuracy. I really think it's a step backwards, except for the shading which is nice. More map symbols and more clutter in some areas. I think I'll pass. It kinda looks like a product with minimal changes to catch attention and try to create a distraction away from some of the user created quality 1:24000 topos. Just my .02.

There is NO debate...... buttons above vs buttons below...try one of each in YOUR hands and see which one YOU like the best.....innards are the same. It's not a crime to form YOUR OWN opinion........

Try the Trimble Planning software mentioned above .......you will start to understand what is going on and can even do some "experiments" with your unit. Pick a time when the software shows that the conditions are lousy at your location , and go out and try it. It will erase a lot of misunderstanding and ???????

You might also download Trimble Planning software (free) and use it to determine what the conditions were in your location at that specific time. Be sure to get the latest almanac. There may have been a spike in the PDOP values at the time when you were starting. With the software, you can actually tell which specific satellites your unit will see before you go outside . You'll also start to understand why there are times when it is impossible to get good position readings with ANY GPSr....including $6000+ survey quality units.

If you had left it on during your bike ride, and saved the location of your starting point when you got back, it would have shown correctly. GPSrs are kinda like people.....they don't always think clearly when they first "wake up". You woke your unit up and asked it a question, then put it back to sleep when you didn't like it's answer. Then you left it sleeping for a while longer and then woke it up again and asked it the question again......and got a similar "sleepy" answer. When GPSrs have been off for "a while", and then turned on, they may show to be "locked on" to satellites but not have a good "almanac" of satellite locations so their calculations may not be as accurate for the first few minutes.