Grasscatcher

"Should we lump all of the 60csx threads into one as well? " It may not be proper to answer a question with a question, but ..... Why not? Is there a downside to doing it? I can definitely see the benefits...as the OP and others have suggested?

You have a GPSr with a high sensitivity chip, trying it's darnedest to maintain a "lock" INSIDE, without a clear view of the satellites,WITH all kinds of reflected signals.........what do you expect?????? You'll get some of that "wandering" outside while stationary, but not to that degree.

Ergo, You are using the "log track to the card" feature aren't you? And aware that the Garmin "x" models using that feature "Write" ALL the track info to the card ? That data is exactly the same as the "Active Log" . Unfortunately though, they don't READ from the card. Will this work?.......Let's say you have several (up to 20?) "Pre-Trip" prepared tracks "saved". Using a saved track, you travel "out". At the end of that track you "save" it to GPSr memory and delete/replace the "pre trip" track you were using. That replaces the probably "hand drawn" or guesstimated "pre trip" track with an "actual" GPS'd track that can be used for navigation, trackback etc.while you are out on your long trip. No more/less memory used but increased accuracy. Do the "clear track log " trick at the start of the next "pre trip" track and repeat. The saved tracks are NOT "wrecked"(your terminology) They are saved in a format and reduced size in a location where they can be READ by the GPSr and used by you.........and also.......VERY IMPORTANT.....you still have ALL of the data (exactly the same as the active log) retained in the GPX files on the memory card.....so you have the best of both worlds! That is the beauty of logging to the card. You are aware, aren't you, that when you UPLOAD the pre trip tracks, that you are "wrecking" (again, your terminology)them also ? To prove it, just try to upload a track with 1000 TP. Depending on which software you are using, it may or may not give you a warning, but when it gets into your (most Garmin's) GPSr it will have no more than 500 TP. In reality, the only place where the data that is "stripped" (when a track is saved ) is actually valuable and useable, is on your PC at home.

Ergo & Hogrod, I'll stick with my earlier description of the problem.... Hogrod, If you are logging the track to the card, when you clear the tracklog, it does not clear the the track on the card, it just leaves the previous file and starts a new GPX file. Try it and you will see that I'm correct. As you said, turning the unit off and back on will also cause it to start a new file, but it may also log some "extra" points in goofy places while it is trying to aquire a fix......and THAT is what you don't want. Ergo, Your example is totally irrelevant because you didn't clear the tracklog immediately before starting to log the track. Your example is from when you were previously doing it incorrectly. If you continue to do things the same way, you'll keep getting the same results. If you had cleared the tracklog, after attaining a good "fix", then those two points would not be there. In this case, if you just delete those first two TP, the track and your log is fixed. During your hike, if you stop and rest (stationary)for a while with the unit left on, you may also find that the unit may log some "extra" random points. THAT is the result that is due to the sensitivity of the new "X" chip. If you like the ability to retain "lock" under heavy cover (which IMHO is more important), then the random points while stopped are a minor trade off. Especially if you understand what caused them and how to edit them. Just FYI, MapSource handles the data this way, NG TOPO handles it differently, and Expert GPS handles it in an even different way yet. The point is, is it a Garmin MapSource problem, or a Garmin GPSr problem? Because, when you take exactly the same data and it is handled slightly differently in multiple software programs, Who Knows? and as easy as it is to fix.....Who Cares. (This is tongue in cheek) Maybe part of the problem is lack of altitude. You 'bout don't have some! 200 ft elevation!!! (My house is at 8725 elevation)

I really don't know how to "solve" the OP's GPSr problem, but I believe the operative word is "DUH"....... because there is no GPSr problem. The problem is an operator problem......not knowing how to operate the equipment to achieve the desired results, not willing to experiment long enough to learn how and not willing to learn/accept suggestions. It shouldn't take arguing thru 19 posts to come to the solution. After you turn your unit on and when you come to the position you want to start your track, then clear the track log. When you come to the end , there will be no extra points. At the end of that track, either turn your unit off or "save" that track and go back home and download to your PC. Or, if you choose to NOT save the first track and turn your unit off and then back on at another location to travel a second track , you will have to learn how to edit tracks to remove the straight lines. The GPSr is just "continuing" the first track, and is working exactly as it should. If you "save" a track, the saved track is limited to 500 trackpoints and elevation(and speed ?) data is stripped away.(the "Active Log" will still have ALL data) As far as Garmin acknowledging that there is a problem, that is very likely a case of not receiving adequate information/description to make an informed assessment of the situation.

NG Topo will do what you want. You can "hand draw" a track, select it, and do a profile. The profile will be drawn from the DEM data of the maps. Of course it will also draw a profile from a GPS'd track that has been downloaded from your unit.

If I understand correctly........ What the OP is wanting to do is impossible. What the OP wants is to take four tracks and make them into just one track and rename it/them without physically connecting them.? DUH !

Does the Colorado have an NMEA data output format available?

Select the track and then right click on it and select Track Properties. Does the correct elevation range show up in the elevation column? Did the correct entire track length of the track transfer? You might also try to transfer everything again. If you can see the correct info in the GPSr but not in Mapsource it must have just burped during the transfer.

See Apersson's reply above for a clarification....I should have said that the Colorado "may" filter out..... No, I believe that averaging may be a different "problem". In previous models "averaging " has always been a separate step when a waypoint is saved. Unless the Colorado happens to be averaging internally without "advertising it", then IMHO that is a software problem that should definitely be corrected in a future update. Averaging is definitely needed. Go outside and get a good "lock" , clear the tracklog and then set the unit out in the open where it has good reception for a while....... 30 min or so. Then take it back inside and download that track, zoom way in and you'll see that all that "wandering" is really just within a few meters or feet. If you also previously also reset the odometer, you may also see some goofy max speed. Something like 100-200+ mph or higher. In some of that "position noise" movement, the distance between one trackpoint and the next might only be 1 or 2 or 3 meters but the time it took to "travel" that distance was only maybe 1 sec........really fast "movement". Does that help?

.......... I'm guessing that if the Colorado zoomed in as far as the 60CSx people would be happy? NO,absolutely NOT.........reaching that lofty goal is impossible because opinions are too varied as to what is "perfect", and it is obvious that there are a great number of people that absolutely do not understand the difference between a compass and a bearing pointer (or course pointer option). ........back to the OP's subject...... that "wandering around" is the result of the higher sensitivity chip. (60 & 76 x series also) It's picking up position "noise" that also is reflected in odometer and speed reading "errors". People complain about that too. However, the same people love the way the new units maintain lock under cover. If you can't understand WHY it's doing WHAT it's doing, and don't like it , then you'll just have to go back to an older unit with the less sensitive chip. I understand that in the "auto archiving" process, the new Colorado "filters out" that "position noise" or wandering around. However, Note that in this forum, there have already been complaints about that too!

This is REALLY not a difficult concept......... Topo is restricted to a single USER. Again......USER! You, as the owner, can install it on multiple computers, and GPSrs, as long as YOU only actively operate one at a time. No one else can be operating the other PC or laptop,or the 2nd or 3rd,or??? GPSr that your copy of Topo is installed on, while you are operating one.

What it's saying is.....YES.....Multiple computers OK (and GPSrs) Restricted to a single USER (You the owner)

G-O-C Can you post the time & location coordinates (also time zone) when the error occurred? I'll also check it with the Trimble planning and also with GPS Pathfinder. Looking for high PDOP /GDOP

Timpat....Isn't it 20 tracks of 500 TP each that are "saveable" in the 60/76 series? The 250 limit pertains to points on a Route. Holy mackerel, what is this? Someone that uses a GPS for something other than a game! Me too..... I map snowmobile ,ATV, and hiking trails and locate missing irrigation structures plotted from their "legal descriptions". Since I don't have a Colorado .....yet.....I can only read these forums and ask questions of Anders and other knowlegable actual users. However , I believe that the new "track logging " system on the Colorado will work fantastically. If I understand correctly, a manually archived file "saves" ALL the data (including time,speed,elevation), similar to what was previously saved on the card. This includes NOT being limited to 500 TP. If you "clear the tracklog" or, on the Colorado, "clear current track" before starting to log something, that action will erase all the trackpoints in the unit (EXCEPT Manually archived tracks and any trackpoints already Auto archived in GPX files. It clears or restarts the "counter" back to 0 that is counting toward the approx 9800TP "trigger point" that creates an "auto archive" GPX file. If my understanding is correct, that means you could have 20 "Saved" track with up to 9800+ TP.... EACH with all the data and then have 20 "Auto Archived" files also. Under normal circumstances, the 20 Auto A tracks would take months or years to generate. Not as accessible as a saved track but but all the data would be there if you needed to "break out" a section separately on your PC. I agree that being able to display multiple saved tracks at the same time is VERY important. Hopefully Anders or ?? can jump in and verify or dispute whether my above ramblings are correct.

Hey 3 Hawks......remember our conversation in another post the other day concerning Satellite avaibility programs? Trimble & Leica both have programs. This above described occurrence is precisely the type of "mystery" that quite often can be logically explained. Conditions can change drastically within a 15 min period. Perfect learning experience..........

What you did was "Stop Navigation". If you're not navigating, it has no location to "Point" to.

I can see a definite need to be able to delete /edit name manually saved tracks in the field. Also need be able to "display on map" more than one selected track at a time by checking box when selecting on track list page.(available on previous 60/76 models) Valuable when snowmobiling /hiking in backcountry to be able to visually identify, on the GPSr, your position in relationship to an established route/trail. Picture a "main trail" with numerous "side or branch" trails off of it, each saved as individual tracks. When you come upon a trail in a "whiteout", which one is it? Odds are that it would probably be one of the "ones NOT displayed" since only one can be displayed at a time. Correctly identifying which trail it is may determine which way you need to turn to reach safety.

dont mean to embarase you go back and read the post, we walk it first to give heads up to others b4 they try it...........great info on contour maps, 1st time u can tell if the contour is over so many degree's Nasa might higher u I'm definitely NOT embarrassed....go back and read you own post...it doesn't say anything about walking the hill first. This is from an individual that has had ATV's come back over the top of me while hill climbing(more than once). In other words. Been there done that.....don't want to do it again! There are a whole lot more things that need to be considered than steepness. See the previous post about experience........

A steepness alert would be absolutely worthless (IMHO). Why? you ask, .....because the GPS could only tell you "after the fact" that you are in trouble. Beep beep, this hill is too steep ! You shouldn't have started up it, or down it......back there behind you! That's what contour lines on the topo maps (paper or on your unit) are for. The closer the contour lines are together, the steeper it is. Closer than x amount, Too Steep, wider apart than xx amount , OK.

Somewhere in the forum someone said ......even if you have NIMH batts installed, change the setting on the unit for the "type of battery" to "alkaline" and it will be closer to reading correctly. It's not actually draining the batts that fast, it's just telling itself that. Batts that show to be drained in the Colorado can be placed in another GPSr and they show to be fine. Worth a try.......

Do your part= use ALL (or at least those within reason) the available tools at your disposal to attain the best accuracy possible. Follow the rules & Work within the system were intended to be "figures of speech" meaning that users need to familiarize and absorb as much knowledge as possible on the subject (GPS) and some of the inherrent inaccuracies of consumer grade units. There are user habits that can be developed (or in some cases should be eliminated) that can reduce the effects of those inaccuracies. (Averaging can be one of them and another is the Satellite Availability program. There's another one of those on Trimble's site) It's not that you can only cache at certain times. Look at it from the perspective that you can easily identify a certain specific time on a specific day that you can tell beforehand that your unit is going to be inaccurate........guaranteed! All of this is only important if the original intent is to be as accurate and as repeatable as possible Sorry, didn't mean to "Wind your Spring" (That's another F.O.S.)

In that case, you have totally eliminated being able to blame it (poor accuracy, repeatability etc) on ANY GPSr, and you'll have to accept the fact that "What you sees, is what you get" ........or maybe you could just totally re-invent the GPS satellite system and possibly eliminate the ionospheric (sp?) influences also. The more accuracy you expect, the more you have to "follow the rules" or "work within the system" or "do your part" to attain that accuracy.

Install Mapsource then go onto Garmins site and download the update to latest version.(free) It is now up to v6.13.6

Just IMHO...... Really now.........Just imagine how many different opinions, types of users, different uses, what is/is not acceptable, etc....... No matter how much beta testing gets done by how many beta testers on any given piece of equipment, the real test begins when it is released to the public. Even the "Absolutely Perfect Fantastic 60 series" (and every other previously released model) had/has SOME problems. If you are a "First Responder" buyer, relax, take a deep breath, enjoy the learning process, give input and grow with the unit, and expect that Garmin will make whatever changes /improvements are reasonable. Knowing Garmin, it WILL happen, That's in their best interest also........