NotNutts

I read somewhere once that 94.6% of all statistics quoted on the internet are made up on the spot. While I did catch the funny in your post, it makes an important point. If you're going to debate with statistics, it's a good idea to link the source. I've posted on a few political forums (much meaner than these forums), and thats generally how it works. It's still easy to get the stats to say what you want, but at least we can see what 'angle' the study had starting out. OP: sorry for going off-topic, but this hot-button issue is there already, I'd say. To get back on topic, I'd say it (the cache) is too much. Any I'm a Christian, Republican, Active-duty military member. And 65% of surveys say that 85% of this demographic lives only to bash homosexuals, cut down redwoods, and ban abortion. But thats only 75% of the time.

How 'bout geocaching paintball, where you hide your cache and then defend it? Now thats a game! Or is it a sport? Why do we care, again?

OK, next question...Why? I mean, I feel like holding on to a track-able coin is taking away part of the fun, ya know? I like the coin, so I'm tempted to keep it as a personal, but I suppose I'm looking for practical reasons for it.

Another difference is that this bogus account was obviously made to make a point. With the recent threads arguing the morality of logs, someone got cute. I think it's funny (definitely not a 'criminal' act) and I think TPTB were wrong to suspend the account. Let the cache owners delete the logs if they want. tink, tink--my 2 cents

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but a cursory search yielded no results. I just got a Geo-Coin that kind of represents me well, so I was considering making it a personal coin that I log in and out of each cache I visit/have visited. Is this legal/allowed/ethical? Is there an easy way to log all my old finds? Thanks in advance.

Here's one more - Markwell's "two hoots" reference post. It's clear this discussion has been going on for years! At least it's not going to slow us down from finding caches! Here's an interesting quote from our fearless leader from the thread referenced by COD above.

Definitions courtesy Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Game: 1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : PLAY (2) : the equipment for a game Sport: : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in So my answer is both.

Speaking of extreme... I regularly see the impact in areas where individuals believe they have the 'right' to go anywhere and everywhere they wish regardless of restrictions, just because they are on public lands. Your 'little trail in the woods' is very often one of dozens of braided, rutted tracks eroding into gullies. Some areas can handle impact, some cannot. It's the job of land managers to determine how much and what sorts of use is appropriate, and we as the public employ them to use their education and training to do so. Given the choice between your 'it's own land, anything goes' attitude and regulations that ensure that my recreational experience in 10 or 20 years will be the same or even better than it is today, the choice is obvious. I think you are extremely overstating the impact of geocaching. In 10 to 20 years, you'll probably have more trails to enjoy. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to who/what we are hurting when we create a 50 foot trail in a 500 acre park. Any takers? I totally agree. I grew up deer hunting in Pennsylvania. Some environmentalists would call me an evil murderer of a beautiful creature. However, any hunter can tell you that deers leave trails all through the forests. Plus they rub the bark off glorious trees during the rut, with no regard to how rare that tree may be. Maybe I was just killing them off before they could leave any more traces.

This begs the question "Why does TPTB allow multiple logs of an event cache?" It would have to be an easy fix. One possible reason would be to allow for events like LonesomDove's. I still say lighten up. Less rules are better. Worry about your own integrity, not others. I've never logged an event cache, let alone multiple times, but I don't give a flip when people do. Comparing multiple logs to illegal activities is baloney--the cheating at solitaire analogy is better.

We could make a 'Real men of genius' song for this. Mr cheating pocket cache collecter This Bud's for the pocket cache collector, who fearlessly find caches in other cacher's pockets caches in pockets Braving the scorn of the old school cachers in the forums you weaselly cheater So this Bud's for you, Mr. pocket cache collector, fearless padding your stats to erode the old-timer's credibility. Mr cheating pocket cache coleh-he-hector! OK, mid shift has officially given me too much forum time and not enough caching time.

Add another issue to the Geocaching hot-button topic list. While we're at it, can I tell you about Jesus? Oh, and vote republican, cause eating meat is bad, micros are good, and LNT. Oh, and no Gay cruising, thats immoral. Whew! I feel better now, back on topic. First, as a former Gulf Coast cacher, let me say that DRat is still the most respected cacher down there, regardless of find count. And since joining, I've heard/have little but great respect for BSnat and Criminal. That said, lighten up! I and just about everyone here agrees--PCs are cheesy, and cheating. The difference, at least for me, is I don't really care! Log away--it doesn't lessen my experience in the least. Nor does it lessen my respect for the venerable, old school cachers who this bothers so much. So to sum up my opinions, PCs are bad, but not as bad as caches at gay cruising sites. (note tongue intentionally left in cheek...or is that a poor choice of words?)

Save up your MO logs, buy her 1 month of membership, and log them all. Then go back to having only one premium acct.

If someone's lying about finding a cache causes me to waste my time and gas looking for it, I care, a lot. I was already a victim of that. I pulled up a few cache pages, discarded the ones without recent finds and set out for an afternoon of geocaching. One of the group was a bit further away, so I saved it for last. My wife and I searched quite a while and when I came home to post a DNF and read the most recent logs, they were of the "Cache is missing, but I'm logging a find" variety. Yeah, thanks. Waste my time so you can get a freakin' smiley. Sure, I guess it was my fault for not reading the logs and making the assumption that my fellow geocachers were honest. I know of another geocacher who was tricked into 100 mile RT drive because someone posted a phony find on a cache on his watch list. Harmless fun. Ha, ha, ha. oops. I guess I didn't understand the whole concept of PCs. I assumed they were listed separately. That is pretty crappy, and I understand your contempt. Well, it wasn't the first time nor will it be the last time I go off half-cocked...

It certainly appears to be a way to get around the guidelines regarding temporary (and possibly moving) caches. I guarantee if they were submitted for review they would not be published. Hey, that could be a new way to beat the system. First let me state for the record that you'll find no pocket caches or event caches for that matter in my list of finds, but I do occasionally cheat at solitaire... But really, who cares if people pull this crap. We all know they're only cheating themselves. The only thing it does is pad their stats, and who cares about that anyway. I mean, if it's about the hunt, not the smiley, who cares about cheating number Hos. If there were some perks for making the 1K club, then it'd be another story.

I'd say this is a community like any other. The same hot-buttons that stir things up at the office do the same here (politics, religion etc). Geocachers have a few extra hot-buttons though, like micros, leave no trace and cache bandits. Generally, if you stick to strictly Geocaching topics you're OK. Thats no fun, though.

I'd like to hear from the admins/Groundspeak on this one. Nothing seems out of bounds to me. I'd like to know what they see, cuz I'm missing it. Sometimes a key bit of info is left out when a cache disapproval is appealed in the forums. Good luck with approval though--very creative idea.

CO would have to be a nice, too. I was stationed there in the late 80s/early 90s and found - The mountains are beautiful - Girl-guy ratio is guy favorable - Good fishing/hunting Add cache density and you got a nice trip. It was a bit pricey there, as I remember though.

I use a cheap aluminum case I got on E-Bay, and use a plastic freezer bag when there's a wet-threat.

Yes, but I think we have to consider why they are stepping outside the bounds. The bounds set by our cultur are extremely restrictive. For example, a bar is a common place for people to hit on each other. Suppose a gay person went to an ordinary bar and hit on a member of the same sex. Somebody would probably end up in a hospital with a broken jaw. So our society has pushed them out of not only parks, but most bars even. There are only a few gay bars where they can even let it be known what their preference is. They can't talk about it in church, as straight couples can. (some churches even have christian dating groups). They can't talk about it in restaurants except in hushed voices. they certainly can't talk about it at work. So where can they go to find like-minded people? We have pushed them to the limits. They are only acting on a very strong natural urge. And parks at night are one of the few places they *can* communicate those urges to others whom they hope share them. I'm not defending the public sex per se, but something tells me that this thread wouldn't be happening if it was a cacher who sumbled on a park where lots of straight people met to pick each other up. Good on topic, non-personal reply. I completely disagree, but still, your post is well thought out and respectful. The portion of your post I'd like to comment on is the last line. I can't speak for all posters, and I admit there has been a few borderline homophobic replies to this topic, but I for one would be just as outraged if this was about straight hook-ups in parks. It is of note that I haven't heard of a geocache in an area where straight cruising occurs--I don't believe it's as common. This may be just because of the gossip factor, so who knows. This is a hot-button topic and has gotten out of hand, so this is my last post. Any more will likely fan the flames rather than bring up any meaningful dialogue.

LOL. We're all part of an alternative lifestyle here at GC.com

Also true. Again, I point to the thread title.

Here's a thought. One of the subcultures I belong to is 'Military'. I understand defending my subculture with pride. However, when people in my subculture step outside the bounds, I am ashamed they are associated with my subculture and do not defend thier activities. Abu Ghraib comes to mind. I understand the most homosexuals are not predatory pigs. All I'm saying is the few who are deserve punishment, not defense.

Very well said! I agree! I suspect that somef folks are taking all the things they see in a park of which they disapprove, and are blaming them to one subculture or one type of activity, when in fact, much as we point out on our cache listing page cited above for PUC #10, such phenomena are often due to a wide range of subcultures and activities. Don't misunderstand my statements as trying to lump it all on one subculture. That wasn't my intention. I was referring to several different activities that occour in the local forest preserves. They are engaged in by all kinds of people. Kids hiding out and drinking and partying around a camp fire or people looking for partners to hitch up with or people who know that they can drive in, meet up for a drug deal and get out without little risk of being seen. I think one of the reasons that forest preserves and such are popular for this is that many are areas that are surrounded by acres or even miles of wilderness. Many are very quiet and desolate during certain times. Some are chained off after sunset and while you might not be able to drive in, you can easilly walk in and there are people who, I am sure, walk in after dark. They know that nobody will be wandering through. With some being pretty secluded, even during the day, there are people who just go there to do things that they know that they can't get away with in the public eye. Truth is though, that they are still using public spaces and innocent people who have equal rights to that land have the right to expect that they or their families and children won't wander upon this activity. It doesn't really matter who is doing it. My sentiments exactly. All the other subcultures doing illegal/threatening activities in parks/state forests are wrong too. We're just addressing the gay cruising in this thread. And yes, I am talking about things I disapprove of, like public sex (gay or otherwise), littering, and stalking. And the generalization I'm making is that it's wrong, generally. And concerning the comment about girls being propositioned by guys all the time, I think thats wrong, too. No less or more wrong then guys proposition guys in the bathroom.

I don't think you meant this the way it sounded, but it seems you are lumping all these activities together with being a homosexual. I truly doubt that is the case. That being said, if these areas are just cruising sites I would have no problem at all visiting them. First because gay men typically mind their own business. Second, gay men are typically nonviolent. If there was sexual activity going on it should be turned in. No one has to put up with that from homosexuals or heterosexuals. If there is drug use going on that should also be reported. No one group should have exclusive use of a public park. It is there for everyone to enjoy. There is a park near where I live that is a known gay cruising spot. I have been here for other activities and in no way felt threatened, nor was I followed or watched. I tend to worry more about the heterosexual teenagers than I do homosexual men. This is just my opinion, I am not trying to flame anyone or start trouble. Your post was not even close to flame bait--thanks for the civility. I think you may have misunderstood my meaning. This thread concerns gay cruising sites. When you find discarded underwear, needles and condoms, see cruising, and later learn the park is a cruising site, it's fairly safe to say the litter is cruising related. I realize that non-gay groups litter; leave cans and needles around etc. All I'm trying to say is that it is wrong no matter the orientation, and nowadays Americans let PC cloud thier common sense. And you're probably right. Straight male teens may propose more of a problem than gay males. If teens were following me or littering or having sex in public, I'd turn them in too. I'm just saying lets not 'ignore' the illegal activity go for fear of offending homosexuals.

Adrenalynn, very well put! Thanks for saying it that way! I respectfully disagree. If these parks were filled with heterosexuals backing into each other's parking spaces, I'd still say it's wrong. Just because they're gay doesn't give them carte blanche. And it's not just 'after dark'. I have no problem minding my own business until followed, or I have to explain to my kids what the 2 naked men were doing on the trail. Let's not let our common sense be clouded by political correctness. If someone was blatantly littering, we'd be up in arms, as most geocachers care about the environment. If the litter in question is condoms, beer cans and needles left behind at a cruising site, we should not 'mind our own business' for fear of offending a homosexual.