OregonCacher

Hey all, I hope I can get a better answer than "dont place it", but I keep having the misfortune of losing my geocoins. People place them (or atleast make the log) but somehow they keep ending up going missing. I'm sure many of you have had this misfortunate, but have any of you found any means of preventing it? Maybe a good ole' fashion social pressure "dont lose me statement" on the log?

Not sure I could have stated that much more clearly (bold). I personally, for religious reasons and otherwise, do not approve of gay marriage (stick with me). I have a right to believe that, equally as people who are gay have the right to want it. However as said above, what really scares much of today's society (me included) away from gay relationships is how some of the gay community acts out in public to gain "notoriety" and what they think is "legitimacy". If all non-heterosexual couples acted in a manner as to not make others around them feel uncomfortable, the issue would be much less prevalent in our society today in my opinion. People have to realize that non-heterosexual relationships being seen as legitimate in society as heterosexual one's is a fairly new concept. While gay/lesbian/etc couples want to feel as equal in society as straight couples, our society is not there yet. In our society, a gay couple holding hands will take awhile to become "normalized". While the gay community is reaching out for equal rights, forcing the issue, and countering a "social norm" that our society was built upon for hundreds of years isn't a change that will take place over night. By parading and patronizing (referring to the story told in quote) members of our society who rightfully are not yet comfortable with such an activity is not a way to win this legitimacy; once the gay community realizes this, it will make lives for people who are gay much better in the long run. Our country was built and founded upon religion as well. I consider myself a very conservative Republican, but still do not care that people are gay. Gay marriage is an entirely different issue in which the gay community may never like the outcome of, but this, like other progressive things in our society take time to "find their place" culturally speaking. I am trying my best to not generalize every gay person in the above statement, because like most things, its usually a section, not the whole, that causes the issue. I feel this conversation, while off-topic, is a "constructive" one, and for the most part is respectful to both parties; thus I feel this isn't a bad conversation to be had. It is readily apparent that I am pretty far to one side (right obviously) on this issue, while others directly oppose me on the other end; this makes for a healthy discussion as it breads positive relationships and cohesion amongst this community. This post is slightly off topic of our "off topic" conversation in regards to a "gay geocaching group", but I felt like it was important this this was said.

Not you, silly. Oh...I guess when someone uses your post as part of a quote and then replies to what you said using "you" in the reply it can sort of seem like they are talking to you. Doesn't it? [edit to add] I don't see how discussing this particular group here is any different then say topics such as, "How did you serve?" etc. If I were a mod (and thank goodness I'm not) I may move the thread to the "Organized Geocaching" section. The fact that it hasn't been moved (yet) tells me either a) the mods haven't seen it yet or B ) the thread is in the correct subforum. Time will tell which is one it is. There are many other reasons as to why this thread has not been locked, moved, or removed. What you made above is called a fallacy!

I think it has a lot to do with intolerance, mis/disinformation and good, ol' fashioned history. Whoa there, NeverSummer. OregonCacher didn't say anything about a specific sexual orientation; he said that ANY sexual orientation is irrelevant to geocaching. Perhaps not in that post, but if you look at the others, it becomes pretty clear what the issue is. And I agree that it is irrelevant. Which is why I said what I said below the snipped quote. I just hope that the same limit on tolerance would be issued to anyone who decides to talk explicitly about who they love. Otherwise, it's just another person who has a different story, and shouldn't be disregarded as a needless interest group. (See religious groups, other clubs or affiliations, etc who form "groups" to go geocaching) Thank you "GeoGeeBee" I was about to say the same thing myself: "Whoa there, NeverSummer. OregonCacher didn't say anything about a specific sexual orientation; he said that ANY sexual orientation is irrelevant to geocaching." - GeoGeeBee Let me be very clear on what I meant; when I'm geocaching, I don't want to know what goes on in the bedroom of the cacher's I'm with; gay, straight, or anything in between. Several people made comments asserting the following: "There is no difference between a occupational or religious group, and a group based upon sexual orientation". To the above statement, I completely disagree, however many people feel differently about different things in this world, so I think the only thing I can say is agree to disagree. An occupation is what you do, not who you are. What if I made a blonde-hair only group, or an African American group? I could drag this analogy on forever, but my point with it is, is that in my opinion, there is a very significant difference between banding together for a common purpose based upon a group-commonality of "what people do, or what (not who) they like" and what their sexual-preference is. If I went geocaching with someone who turned out to be Gay, I would not have any issue with it, as long as it wasn't a part of our discussion as we were geocaching; just as I would not speak about my sexual preference/experiences with fellow-cachers unless they were close, personal friends, and I also knew it would be perceived well and appropriately by anyone and every person. It sounds really good to say that that your sexuality is not who you are, but I don't think a therapist would back that up. Being a straight married man is a huge aspect of my personality. To try to separate the concept of my sexuality from my concept of self is almost impossible. I can't imagine who I would be if I wasn't the sort of person who wanted to be with my wife. Sexuality is a HUGE part of being alive. It's part of nature. It's part of our personality on a DEEP level. Far deeper than a job or a hair color. Meanwhile, my job (most people's jobs?) are just something that they do to pay the bills right? I mean, someone has to PAY ME to do that stuff. Otherwise I'd just be out geocaching... and I LOVE my job I find it interesting people keep bringing up "what goes on in the bedroom" Whenever people talk about homosexuality they seem to go straight to sex and bedroom talk. Perhaps it's easier to characterize it only as sex and not as love? If I said, " I don't want to know the cacher's I'm with are in love with or know about their significant others" we'd probably all agree it is a completely weird ting to say. So instead we say what? "don't wanna know who you're humping"? Seems like a weird thing to ask of someone. No one offered to let us know what happens in their bedroom. It has nothing to do with gay caching. Please refer to the most recent reply on this page (up a bit).

I hope I cut this quote right. Here's the deal when I meet strangers, even caching, certain topics always come up. Because I have ovaries one of the first questions I am always asked is "Do you have children?" Then eventually relationship status comes up. I know this might be hard for many people to want to understand but being LGBT is NOT just what happens in the bedroom. It's not just a particular act in bed. It's not just having sex. Believe it or not we have normal relationships just like everyone else. So say we start having a normal friendly conversation. Say you mention something about your opposite gendered partner if you have one. Now I mention something about my same gendered partner. Has NOTHING to do with sex. It has to do with my relationships and now you know generally what my sexual orientation is. Or how about this. I show up at an event with my partner. We're holding hands. Maybe we even hug as couples are prone to do on occasion. It has NOTHING to do with sex but you now know what my orientation is. Or maybe I don't come with a partner but maybe we have friendly conversation about work or our lives because in my experience there are finite number of geocaching topics to talk about. And realistically most people want to get to know their fellow cachers as people. Who I am as a person includes who my partner is and subsequently the fact that I am part of the LGBT community. It is also my job. It is also my other hobbies. A lot of things make up who I am. I would never ask a straight person to not show love to their partners in public. I wouldn't say don't hug in front of me or hold hands because your straightness makes me uncomfortable. I would enjoy being in the presence of that love and I certainly wouldn't say they are jamming their sexuality down my throat unless they are disrobing and doing it right there in front of me. Because I don't know how the straight community is going to respond to me having a same gendered life partner when I have a partner I am at times much more comfortable going out with other people in the LGBT or allied community. I mean take this thread for a example. Lots of things have been thrown around. Say this was an event and I never knew any of you and say I showed up with my partner only to find all you all that uncomfortable with it. How do you think I would feel about that? I like to know when meeting groups that the most basic aspects of who I am will be ok so I don't leave feeling like a big old pile of poo. Or being made to feel so uncomfortable that I want to crawl into a hole. You're also dealing with someone here who has literally been threatened with violence of all sorts just for going out to eat with a same gendered partner. Who has had be subjected to vandalism and horrible hateful things being yelled at me all because I held I hands, hugged or went out on a normal date with a same gendered person. After dealing with that in my personal life of course in my geocaching life which is just a microcosm of the larger society I might just want to occasionally hang out with people who I know have experienced the same (if not worse). I don't have to explain then why I feel the way I feel or worry about things I worry about. I don't have to question what's going to happen if I go out into the woods with someone who suddenly figures out that I'm in the community and is suddenly not so ok with that. I've been in situations like that in other areas of my life and it's a horrible feeling. Also, if people are that uncomfortable with who I am or who any LGBT person is then I don't particularly want to subject myself to that either. If people can't see past the sex act and into the fact that I do have loving, normal relationships, a normal job and a pretty normal life... it's not really someone that I want to hang with. And I'm quite sure the people who are that uncomfortable would be much happier to not be subjected to hanging out with me either in that case... That's really all I have to say on this topic. I can't make people understand what it's like to live this life or feel the way I feel. Or have to be faced with the threats and violence I have been faced with just because of who I love. I can't ever make people understand but I wish I could. You make a very good argument (bolded text) and I acknowledge that this is indeed a keen possibility in general, everyday conversation. I'll take some time to consider that...

I think it has a lot to do with intolerance, mis/disinformation and good, ol' fashioned history. Whoa there, NeverSummer. OregonCacher didn't say anything about a specific sexual orientation; he said that ANY sexual orientation is irrelevant to geocaching. Perhaps not in that post, but if you look at the others, it becomes pretty clear what the issue is. And I agree that it is irrelevant. Which is why I said what I said below the snipped quote. I just hope that the same limit on tolerance would be issued to anyone who decides to talk explicitly about who they love. Otherwise, it's just another person who has a different story, and shouldn't be disregarded as a needless interest group. (See religious groups, other clubs or affiliations, etc who form "groups" to go geocaching) Thank you "GeoGeeBee" I was about to say the same thing myself: "Whoa there, NeverSummer. OregonCacher didn't say anything about a specific sexual orientation; he said that ANY sexual orientation is irrelevant to geocaching." - GeoGeeBee Let me be very clear on what I meant; when I'm geocaching, I don't want to know what goes on in the bedroom of the cacher's I'm with; gay, straight, or anything in between. Several people made comments asserting the following: "There is no difference between a occupational or religious group, and a group based upon sexual orientation". To the above statement, I completely disagree, however many people feel differently about different things in this world, so I think the only thing I can say is agree to disagree. An occupation is what you do, not who you are. What if I made a blonde-hair only group, or an African American group? I could drag this analogy on forever, but my point with it is, is that in my opinion, there is a very significant difference between banding together for a common purpose based upon a group-commonality of "what people do, or what (not who) they like" and what their sexual-preference is. If I went geocaching with someone who turned out to be Gay, I would not have any issue with it, as long as it wasn't a part of our discussion as we were geocaching; just as I would not speak about my sexual preference/experiences with fellow-cachers unless they were close, personal friends, and I also knew it would be perceived well and appropriately by anyone and every person.

I feel that it should be said that there is a keen difference between creating a geocaching group based off of one's occupation or religion, than one created solely because on one's sexual orientation. As one other poster attested to, if we are at a geocaching event for example, and some geocacher there is being obnoxious enough that others around them are informed of their sexual orientation; that's an issue in itself. We cannot compare "geocaching groups" equally across eachother. What if I created a neo-nazi geocaching group? Culturally, would that be seen as equal as a "military" geocacher's group? Something tells me there is a reason that there is a lack of "gay geocaching groups" in the community; and it has nothing to do with a "minority vs majority" issue... but moreover that sexual orientation has never had a place in this hobby, or many others for that matter; it's not culturally appropriate, regardless of which sexual preference it is.

If you want to be indigent. look at post 15 from the OP for something that sounds bigoted, discriminatory and offensive: "We really do simply have a better time in a gay white,straight male group, than not. I guess they get the jokes, or something. There are gay white straight male hiking groups, gay white straight male biking groups, white straight male travel groups, etc, and we've done these kind of groups gay white straight male and we've done them all-inclusive. And although we've had wonderful times on the all-inclusive events, we just have a lot more fun on the gay white straight male ones." If it were posted with the edits I made, the poster would be burned at the stake, GS would take action. However as it was originally posted, this that may have opposing views on either the initial subject (the group) or the underlying reasons for that subject (lifestyle) have to walk on egg shells or keep it to themselves. Unless someome is attracted to you and indicates it somehow to you while caching, you sexual preferences are of no consequence. If and when the subject is brought up in conversation, then deal with it, however I think it is safe to say that the likelihood of it ever being bought up is low. You want the group, set it up in the cicles with which you hang, bring it into this forum, expect some push back. Perfectly said.

Why on earth would anyone label you a bigot simply because you are a (conservative) Catholic? I've been called that. Naturally, not here. I've been called that too for not supporting Gay marriage :$

I sure hope all who went had fun! I have to wait three extra days to get my two Geocoins shipped from "coinsandpins.com" because of it

I would be even more impressed if it was aired on Fox

Since I live in your area and, yes, there is one for sure that its grandfathered. I found one of them and its a hard one to get to.(about 14 miles round trip for just one cache) There is another one thats a mutli but the cache itself is not in the Wilderness area. You can send a set coordinates of question to your local review and ask him/her to check to see it allowed. Our reviewers are awesome to work with. I never considered that... how do I know who is the assigned reviewer for that "neck of the woods", if you will.

I'm from the Oregon area, and when viewing the Cascades, I see many caches that have been placed all throughout Wilderness areas. Have these been grandfathered in? My dream would be to be able to go backpacking and place a cache at a cool spot I find (assuming it's the required distance from another cache), and place it, then go home and log it. I guess I'm trying to figure out how I can be prepared when I go out on a trip such that I respect all of the laws in place.

I have nothing wrong with people being gay. In attempt to prevent this thread from being blown out of proportion, I will end with one last statement. I don't see or feel any need to discuss my sexuality with anyone but my girlfriend, thus anyone I cache with would have no idea as to what my sexual orientation is, nor would I know of theirs. That's the way it should be.

Inherent in that activity absolutely not, but as I said before, if I made a thread looking for straight only geocaching groups, I would be called intolerant and would be flamed.

I feel as if you replaced the word "gay" in the thread title to "straight", it would seem as if I was either homophobic or non-tolerant. In my mind, and others may disagree, sexual orientation has no place in this hobby except within the confines of yourself.

Well i'm not the OP so I am in the clear. Should it matter if it doesn't have any involvement???

Hey all, Quick question. After reading posts of rulings made by the various agencies overseeing Federal Forestry Land, I find myself a bit confused on where I can and cannot place caches in the Wilderness. In the field, how do you all know who owns the land you are on? Do you bring a Topo map with you? I feel like it would be very easy to place a cache, grab the coordinates, and a few days later arrive home to find out you placed it on land not allowed by geocaching.org, so now there is a random ammo can up in the Cascades or Rockies that most likely will not be retrieved. Any tips?

Not trying to spark confrontation here but I have to ask: why should the sexual orientation of the geocaching group one goes out with have any bearing on their enjoyment of the activity, especially with an activity where sexual orientation has no involvement?

is an agenda. But ultimately, our opinions don't matter. Work with your local reviewer. It is possible to create caches that salute someone/something without crossing the "agenda" line. I understand and that will probably be the only way that I can get this approved. To not be argumentative and confontational, I took out the sentence from my cache. The response I received from the reviewer was the following: "But the sentence, "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces." isn't ok. While I appreciate the sentiment, geocaching.com does not allow caches to be used as a "tribute" or to "honor" any group or organization, be it the military, the Girl Scouts, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving. As noted in the guidelines, "caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."" Why is this even being called an "agenda"? Fine, don't help me support the troops, and don't go find/seek my cache... easy enough? I understand where they are coming from like I said, but this issue isn't one in which there is really another side that greatly opposes the content of this sentence. We live in a world today where it is so easy to "upset" someone or say one of the millions of things that could trigger someone and make them "unhappy", but where is the opposing view to "support our troops"? Even if there is an "agenda" in someones cache, if it is one in which the "majority" doesn't have a problem with, then why deny it to please the "minority"? Yes, he did say if I removed the last line I could get it approved in which it just did. Its the logic behind it that upsets me, however, we can end the discussion here because I know this wont end up anywhere. Thanks for all of your input everyone, I do appreciate it

is an agenda. But ultimately, our opinions don't matter. Work with your local reviewer. It is possible to create caches that salute someone/something without crossing the "agenda" line. I understand and that will probably be the only way that I can get this approved. To not be argumentative and confontational, I took out the sentence from my cache. The response I received from the reviewer was the following: "But the sentence, "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces." isn't ok. While I appreciate the sentiment, geocaching.com does not allow caches to be used as a "tribute" or to "honor" any group or organization, be it the military, the Girl Scouts, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving. As noted in the guidelines, "caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."" Why is this even being called an "agenda"? Fine, don't help me support the troops, and don't go find/seek my cache... easy enough? I understand where they are coming from like I said, but this issue isn't one in which there is really another side that greatly opposes the content of this sentence. We live in a world today where it is so easy to "upset" someone or say one of the millions of things that could trigger someone and make them "unhappy", but where is the opposing view to "support our troops"? Even if there is an "agenda" in someones cache, if it is one in which the "majority" doesn't have a problem with, then why deny it to please the "minority"?

Yes sorry I was unaware you all couldn't view it as unpublished: Title: Semper Fi - PFC Johnson Short Desc: A nice nature cache put in place to salute my cousin for his sacrifice to our country! Long Desc: Thought i'd put this up in honor of my cousin P. Johnson, who is now a PFC in the United States Marine Corp. He is going in as a weather forecaster and is currently stationed at Keesler AFB in Buloxi, Mississippi. He's now gone away for active duty, but we used to geocache all of the time, thus I thought this would be a good way to thank and honor him. Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

Trust me, I understand their "intent" of why to not allow this kind of cache. However, the only bad "agenda's" are ones in which could cause a discrepency on. This "agenda" is completely neutral, and by geocaching.org allowing it, does not mean they agree or disagree. I agree, if this cache promoted a political candidate or some other political issue then that might be toeing the line, however, this cache is not pushing any political agenda, its simply thanking my countrymen for their service. We live in a world now where everyone is hyper-sensitive about everything, but this is a bit over the top; even for Groundspeak. The ability to have "reviewers" go over each cache is a benefit to them, but also means that they can decide which cache's to approve and deny (obviously), however, that also means that the reviewers should be trusted to decide whether the "agenda" that may or may not be present in a cache is one in which could cause upset. Like I said, if you dont agree with the "theme" of a cache, then why just not seek it? Here is the cache page: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...fe-f0f672a7a439 The sentence at issue is the last sentence under "long description". I think Groundspeak is way off on this one. I agree that they should do their best to keep "political" agenda's out of the hobby, but when I can't even honor my cousin for doing something for the continuation of our own country, what message is that sending?

Hey guys, I by no means want to stir the pot, but I have an issue I wanted some feedback from. Regardless of ones political ideology, I would like to think that all Americans support the fact that our troops ARE fighting for our country, regardless of whether you support the reason and causes behind it. I agree that we should keep politics out of this hobby, as all that will do is create negative relationships amongst ourselves. However, I posted a cache in honor of my cousin, who felt the duty to enlist in the Marines and follow in our grandfather's footsteps and fight for our country. I know many of you may not agree on the war itself, I understand, but when I try to create a cache in his honor, and end with the description: "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.", walk negative sentement could their be? I was shocked when I received an email from a cache reviewer about this, as I didn't know that we had become at such a place in our country, that I can't even honor my family member or the other millions alike who do and have served in our armed forces. If this subject has already been brought up I apologize, I had no clue what to search to find it. I dont want to start a heated battle on hear by no means, but I guess I dont understand the harm or the negative response to such from geocaching.org. If someone disagree's with the war so much that they don't honor our veterans who have served regardless of the cause, then don't seek the cache I suppose? It reminds me of what happened when our soldiers came back from Vietnam.... Regards, K Kelm

Why I see where you're coming from, I think you've gone slightly overboard on this one. Not every cacher is perfect, and there is no cacher "mold". We come from all walks of life, and thus there will always be people that might ask for this kind of thing, or complain about the premium membership cost. Having a thread to try to spite all of them isn't really going to do anything. Again, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't productive.