mchaos

Hum, seems inappropriate seeing in how those made up rules are not in effect, meaning I do not have to abide by them and can ignore them like the rest of the geocaching world. It seems to me that the picture you have posted would represent you more because it would be you who would be crying that they should be the rules. It effects me in no way. When I say "Not a very fair or nice thing any way." it is just a general statement about the imaginary rules. You can preach them all you like. But you will not see me trying to push an imaginary rule. As a matter of fact this sort of thing will fade out now because I don't think I will even think about it in the future when I see it. EDIT: I feel this one is more appropriate...

Platinum member propaganda. Part of that left coast / right-click conspiracy. Just ignore it. It's all borke anyways. Well that sort of thing is quite a bit annoying. Its all just basically saying, I am better then you so I can leave a cache etc. Not a very fair or nice thing any way. I have had no intention of listening to that sort of dribble. I can read the guidelines and rules just fine. Was just wondering where and why I see this one in a while.

That is some dirty stuff. I mean, I hate cheesy micro's, ones of which no creativity was used to place it, but its real low to go around and steal them. I have an issue in my area with about 2 people specifically that have a tone of caches, more then you, and 90% of them are micros, and most are very poor. As well they do not maintain their caches when there is a problem. I will admit that the thought did cross my mind, but it wouldn't be right, and I wouldn't want some one to steal mine if they felt it was a poor hide. I would hid a micro right out side your home, and keep an eye on it. Make the title and description something that stands out so it cannot be avoided. When you see the sticky fingered cacher lifting the cache, and making off with it, just walk out to him and ask him why he is doing it. I am sure it will end after that.

yay!.... now you are finally legal to post in the forums! no more breaking forum rules! only 900 more 'til you get to hide a cache. Humm, I see this once in a while and it baffles me. Needing 100 finds to post in forum, and 1000 finds before you can hide cache. However I have looked at the forum guidelines, and the geocaching listing requirements and guidelines, and cannot find anything anywhere that states that you must have 100 finds before you can post in the forum, and 1000 finds before you can place a cache. More over, I own a PM which gives you access to the off topic forum, but that would make no sense what so ever if I wasn't allowed to post until 100 finds. So what is all this hoopla?

Been paperless for a year. My main obstacle has been finding the time to get out there and look for them. I have been recently trying to get one a day. Hasn't been 1 a day, but its helped.

GSAK is very powerful. I have a triton, so it does not support uploads direct from GSAK, but with the right macro, it can edit all the information so that it is more suitable for the triton. Extremely helpful. I use GSAK with a macro, then I save the GPX and load it in Vantage point, because I must, then load it on my triton. There is so much you can do. Its power is only exceeded by its mystery!!!

Just excited, I made my 100th find today. I know not a big milestone, but I am working on it.

Waaait just one minute. Feb. only has 28 days* * - 29 in a leap year Gee I think you are on to something.....

First to find is first to find. Logging on the website at any time will not change that..

Hahahahaha really? Its all part of the challenge. I have found a couple like that, and under picnic tables. I had to travel back to one once. Heck, its all good. Perhaps the CO wants to make it slightly more challenging because of muggles. To me its awesome. People having a picnic on a table where they have no clue a geocache is there, let alone what one is. It exists in the background of real life....

Good... and please show written permission from the landowner to place a Geocache/Concrete Block on the property.I really want to see you place this "by the guidelines", as you've promised. ~ Mitch ~ Ummm, why would written permission be required in order to be placed by the guidelines? http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx "By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location." ~ Mitch ~ It says adequate, not written. Agreed, but given the tenacity and wanton disregard for the spirit of the guidelines as demonstrated by the OP, a letter of permission would be in order.(Especially if it involves a cast block of concrete). ~ Mitch ~ (Edited for punctuation) Okay, I do not need written permission, and it is not up to you any way Mitch. It is up to the reviewer, and I have been in dialog with him, and he said that the way I now intend to hide the container would not violate guidelines and would be published. As some one did the math on the block, it would be about 40 lbs. That is not that heavy at all. I highly doubt that it would sink into the ground. In no way shape of form would this be put into the ground. It would sit on top of the ground. If I had no respect for the guidelines, I would have just placed the cache in the ground, not started a thread, or posted pics of it on the forum. As well I wouldn't disclose the nature of the cache to the reviewer. As it is, I have found a way to place the cache so that it is perfectly by the guidelines. So, where then is the lack of respect for the guidelines it has be inferred that I have? Edit: Also, where is the "wanton disregard for the guidelines"? I have not placed a cache in the ground ever. None of my caches that are published are breaking the guidelines or spirit of the guidelines. Asking a question about a cache, weather or not it is or isn't by guidelines, and then offering alternetives until a suitable one to the guidelines is found, is not wanton disregard for the guidelines, if anything it is a clear regard for the guidelines as I sought information from others before placing and the cache will now ultimately be placed within the guidelines. One of my placements of which I posted a pic of as well, I fully disclosed the type of cache it was and how and where it was placed. The reviewer published it. Because it was on a green transformer box others suggested that I should have called the electric company and sought permission to put it there. So because I do have regard for the guidelines, and do not want to place a cache against them, I called the electric company and they said it was okay. Some did not believe me, so I went one step further. I emailed some one who spoke with a safety expert, and that person said it was okay. I copied the email on the post, and the peoples names along with contact information any one may contact. So I am sure by now I have proven that I do not have a disregard for the guidelines in any way. Let alone "wanton disregard". Tell ya what Mitch, I will show you the written permission when ever feb 31st comes around...... I promise.

Because "this" in the title refers to the cache container I made and weather it would be against the guidelines to place. That sounds like you are back-peddling to me. There are no cache containers that are a "violation of the rules", something that I'm sure you are very aware of. The rules all have to do with where or how they are hidden. Let me remind you of your opening words: PS: Please note that I am not, and have not, commented on whether or not I think the method of hiding is against the guidelines. I am simply wondering why you would pose a question and then not want to hear the answer. That is what people have been responding to. Three pages later, you still don't want to hear their answer, so I repeat: why did you ask the question in the first place? Okay what ever makes you happy..... I started out with posting a pic of the container and what I was going to do with it. Some one challenged me to make another thread and find out what every one else thought so I did. This thread has evolved from there, in a spiraling fury of flaming and people just trying to find some angle to strike some nerves. This thread was posted because of the pics of my container that I posted in the CCC's thread. The title only conveys a subtle explanation of the direction of the thread. Maybe you can tell me exactly what a book is about by the title with out at least reading the summary on the back, but most of us can't. You can get a general idea nothing more. So the thread went along about the guidelines. Back and fourth. It swing too much to call it, there for we cannot. So we are beyond that. Offered were ways that I could place this cache as intended with out breaking the guidelines. We went from coring the ground to mashing it in wet ground, to, as long as you have permission, to just plain old, "Just place it and don't tell the reviewer what it is." So the thread continued to evolve. At some point it seemed to become more about the cache not getting placed as apposed to weather or not it was to the guidelines. As so I followed the direction of the thread. So I offered up a way to place the cache as intended. (Let me break for a sec and explain what I mean by, "Place the cache as intended." I mean the cache would have to be placed as though it was a drain of some sort.) Spoke to a friend and got the idea for cementing it in some where that was already dug up was getting a side walk or some other cement structure if I could get permission. At that point I get the old, "Just trying to find a loop hole"... No loop hole at this point, Just trying to find a way to place this cache to appease the masses. I Spent time on this, and it has been well made, certainly I am "intent" on placing it, But I have never been one to break the guidelines. I am sure I have proven that in the past. Now as this thread has become a multitude of omnidirectional discussions about who knows what at this point relating to the guidelines pertaining to caches in the ground, and weather or not a the cache I have made can be placed as intended. Initially I was going to put it in the ground, too the guidelines as guidelines and figured because there are already many caches all over the place that have needed some sort of , "Object for digging" to place it, that there must be a reason these get published, and as I have seen in the past, mentions of permission to place cache as is on cache pages, I made a logical conclusion that as long as I had permission to place it int he ground, it would be okay. Not merely because "other people have placed similar", but because it is a logical conclusion that when you find a enough of these that mention permission to place the cache as is, that with permission it can be published. All this has been confirmed by a good amount of comments that if you get permission etc etc... so with people saying I am intent on placing the cache by finding a loop hole, I say I am intent on placing this cache, and because I am a stand up guy, I will do it honestly and within the guidelines, with full disclosure to the reviewer on how the cache is placed. Now, we all know that there are many many many caches that have needed some sort of object used to dig to place the cache, most because it seems as though every one that has replied in this thread has seen one. Weather or not some reviewers out there passed these caches based on permission of land owners, or the CO's did not disclose the nature of the said caches, but they are out there and are getting place, and getting published. I know for a fact as the guideline is written, if I were to place this in an existing hole it would meet guidelines. NO LOOP HOLE. There is not a guideline against that, or 90% of existing caches would be infringing on the guidelines. So placing an cache in an existing "______" (add what you will) is allowed, as long as it abides by the rest of the guide lines, which this would as long as I had permission. There for if some one was pouring a side walk, and already digging up their own property, and that owner said I could place the cache before the cement was poured, it would not be against the guidelines. That is NOT a loop hole. It is a placement within the guidelines, just as is putting the container in a block of cement as I intend to do now. Over all it is a better idea more over then just finding a so called "loop hole". It is a cache, with a believable facade of some sort of drain/plumbing fixture, that I can freely move if I need too, and would require no site prep to place. But the fact still remains, If there was an existing hole in the dirt. I did not dig, and was not made to accommodate this cache container, and I had permission if needed to put this container in that hole, it would not go against any guidelines. However, any one who has said, "it is ultimately up to your reviewer" is correct, as even if I was by the book, if the reviewer felt there was some valid reason why the cache should not be published, they can question it, and if they find it should not be published, then it will not get published. As far as the guidelines read, placing it in an existing hole in the ground would not break guidelines. If you consider coring the earth, digging, then it would be against the guidelines. You can define a way all day long and you can walk it all over the place as to what some thing is defined as. So anyway. At this point all I care about is the fact that my container will get to be placed as intended, and will be by guidelines. I already have the go ahead from my local reviewer.

only thing close has been by other cachers asking me if I needed help finding any thing, and after, "Uh well.. humm..," they say, "geocaching huh??" Although I saw a couple cachers snagging a cache when I was near by. I thought about going up to them and saying something like, " What ya got there, is that drugs? IS THIS A DRUG STASH??!!" Before chuckling and telling them to cache on..... But I just said "Hi, Geocaching huh?"

I will and have replaced logs in caches. I ill not however replace them in a film canister, or Altoids can or a cheap glad-ware container, as they will just get wet again soon. Really any thing that is soggy wet and a poor container. its not worth it. I will add a non ripped ziplock however.

Humm, most LPH's and guard rail hides are pretty easy. Most I walk up to them with out gps in hand and make the snag. There have been a few where I stopped on my way to or from work, with out my gps at all knowing abouts where it is and making the find.

If you can find someone willing to let you put the cache permanently into their sidewalk while it is being poured, then it should be good to go. Good luck. I have just been notified by my local reviewer that my cache can be placed in the way I now intend. This is how it is going to be placed: The sleeve of the cache is going to be set in a block of cement about 8" wide, and 12" high. I am going to use an 8" sonotube as a mold. The block will be free standing. It will not be mounted, buried or anchored in any way. It will just sit on the ground. The fake drain cache will be cemented into that. It can then be placed anywhere. I will find a place where something like this will look common place so it will not stand out. If needed permission will be sought. The cache will be able to be moved if need be.

Yeah but I am not going to even place it that way now. I am going to put it in its own block of cement. That is not in the ground, just on top of it. It will be a non permanent fixture. Something that can be moved if need be. It will look permanent, but that will be a facade for muggles. So it looks like some kind of drain vent oslt. But the important thing is it will be to guidelines.

Because "this" in the title refers to the cache container I made and weather it would be against the guidelines to place. A lot of people have said things like I am intent on placing it weather it is to guidelines or not. I would not place it if it is not allowed. I tried coming up with a way that would be to guidelines, and every just keeps with me trying to find a look hole, and I just want to place the cache in a way that is allowed. So I have given a new scenario of how I am going to place it, and instead of people commenting on that, they find some other reason to flame me. So I just want to know, is the way I am going to place it now, OKAY according to guidelines? And if so, am I trying to find a loop hole with this, or am I just trying to place it according to guidelines?

Stop thinking that this is some sort of personal attack on you. It is far from it. This is about the guidelines and EVERYBODY has to work within those. It's not all about you. It's not about the specific cache that you want to place. Is this cache going to be at an interesting spot, have a nice walk or hike to the location, present an interesting challenge to someone searching for it, or are you just placing the cache to prove a point to all those you that perceive are trying to prevent you from placing a cache? Sure, okay whatever.... Would the way I now intend to place this cache infringe on the guidelines?????? That is the question... After all, the original question in the tread was, DOES MY cache break the guidelines. So this thread is about MY cache, and weather it breaks the guidelines.

I am not going to be digging a hole any where. Its not going to be in a hole in the dirt. this is not the kind of thing the guideline about digging or burying caches was intended to stop. If some one who having a side walk put in, just puts a 4" tube of PVC in the sidewalk, then I can put the container in, but I do not have to put it in a side walk anyway. I can place this if there is any 4" PVC in a wall, where I have permission by owners to put i there. Then it will not even be near the ground. I could find an existing 4" pvc in a wall or side of a building.Then I can get permission from owner. If the owner says it is okay to put it in the existing pvc, then it will not violate guidelines. I think now its more about making an excuse for me not to place this cache rather then if this container violates guidelines. I could place this in a way that it is no where near dirt, And the PVC tube is already there, and I had nothing to do with it being there, and the owner has given me permission put the container in there, ( By container, I mean the part with the fake drain cover on it, not the sleeve) then I would be in no way shape or form any where near breaking any guidelines. That doesn't matter any way. I have already come up with the end all solution to placing this..... Yeah, I am INTENT on placing this cache, BUT only if the reviewer says it is good to go, and not breaking guidelines, with a clear explanation of how the cache is placed. So yes. This will eventually get placed I am sure, JUST not in the ground. So who is the next person who is going to come up with some reason this cache can not be placed? Well here is what I have decided on. I will put the tube in a block of cement. A free standing block. Something not anchored and movable. Only big enough to look permanent. This can then be placed any where. It can be placed in the woods, with the Block sitting on top of the dirt with no holes, with the cache container in the block that is not in the ground. I can place it anywhere as long as I have permission. It can be near a side walk. it can sit any where and not violate guidelines. It would be a block of cement, something I can move, but heavy enough that it would seem like its in the ground and permanent, but will be movable. If I ever archive it, I can just pick up the block and take it home. This cache will be placed, BUT IT WILL BE BY GUIDELINES AND THE REVIEWER WILL HAVE ALL THE DETAILS OF THE HIDE. so, go ahead, tell me why that placement would be against guidelines. At this point I think it is more about flaming me, and just finding reasons why I can't place this container, rather then weather or not this cache meets guidelines. You can tell which people here have respect for others here. They are the ones offering suggestions on how it may be placed by guidelines and not just trying to find a reason to say this cache is not allowed. To those, thank you.....

Sounds like you're feeling a sore in the gums. The overwhelming opinion here is that your container would be a violation. Even though your idea was creative, it just isn't going to fly on GC. I'd suggest closing this thread and save yourself additional angst. ~ Mitch ~ I have actually found a placement for this cache that will not break the guide lines! I have a friend who owns construction company. He does a lot of masonry work too. I was talking to him and said he will let me know when he is pouring cement for some one. So basically it comes down to finding some one who will be getting a side walk at a business, who would be cool with setting this cache in the side walk when it is poured. Bound to be some one who will go for it. He said I could just talk to the said owners when an opportunity comes up. So if I do find some one who would be cool with something like this being in a side walk on there property, then it will not void guide lines. 1) it will already be dug up because of the need to put a side walk in. 2) I will have permission. This sort of placement will not void guide lines, and should not ruffle any feathers what so ever. Only things is, who knows when I will find some one cool with doing this. But I keep a look out and when it can be placed, it will be all good.

Okay okay, This is getting out of hand. This whole thread was just to get peoples opinions, not to be kicking each others teeth in. some people think my hide would be fine. Some people say don't tell the reviewer and just hide it. Some people say it is a violation. Some people just call people idiots. some people think it is okay as long as you get permission from a land owner. some people just look for any reason to flame..... There is no need to continually beat each other into the ground over this. Not every one here will agree. The facts that remain are that these caches exist. Some with permission and passed legit. Some are out there with out permission and shady info to reviewer. This is life, and the game, and this stuff will keep happening.

Because, roughly once every 42 days, some cacher, who is utterly clueless regarding the guidelines, will be wandering through Home Depot, see something like a PVC drain cap and decide "That'll make one heck of a cache!". At some point in the process, they will realize that it might be a problem, so they come here, hoping to garner support. Often with the lame excuse of, "But I've seen it done before", or, "I found something that will make a hole, which is not very pointy". The spirit of the guideline becomes irrelevant in their desperate attempt to find a loophole. Well i am well aware of the rules. Also I did not come here hoping to support my cause. I have already seen this type of hide out there, as well I have seen other hides that require some digging to place. It gets out there, so obviously it is allowed under certain conditions.

Yes, forums are for flaming. It doesn't bother me. I will go through the proper channels. There are a couple of problems with it now though. One is the fact that he's already shown it in the forums. The other is the fact that reviewers hunt caches just like the rest of us do. It would be much better to tell the reviewer up front that it was placed with explicit permission rather than have the reviewer stumble upon it while out caching and then archive it. Also, as a general rule, it is always better to bring things up that a reviewer may have questions about before s/he has to ask. That way the reviewer knows that you have read and understand the guideline involved. If you wait for them to ask questions, they may not be so confident that you know what you are doing and whether or not they should publish the cache. Its all good. I will have permission when I place it or I will not place it. He's posting to a new thread by request so that we can keep all the discussion on the subject here instead of muddying up the CCC thread. But, why is there a need to keep discussing this? In fact, I don't really understand why it's an issue. Let's just fess up to the fact that there are more than a few caches that have been placed where it is quite obvious that some type of earth displacement has taken place. If 99 out of 100 cachers say that it is against the "guidelines" to do so, is that going to completely stop this from happening? I don't think so. Maybe a few will be inclined not to place caches like this, but it's still going to happen. Ah, it's just that I get very tired of seeing the same old things getting beaten to death. If anyone here happens to follow Cruise Critic and the subject of "can I bring beer/wine/liquor on board/" keeps coming up, you know what I mean. Cheers! You don't need to comment on the thread either but you do. Every time you post a reply, you are adding to the discussion. So ask your self your own question. No one told you that you had to click on this thread, and you are not obligated too.

Im gonna get my shovel ready!!!! And some random pointy objects....