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nobby.nobbs

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Everything posted by nobby.nobbs

  1. So Groundspeak are aware, Groundspeak have sent in the cleaning crew but Groundspeak aren't big enough to justify their actions or answer what are reasonable questions. I feel sorry for the moderators like you Keystone as you are having to represent a firm that has very little respect for it's customers.
  2. This is exactly what I'd call the common sense approach, if the sandwich box you left under a tree is stolen/trashed/eaten by wild dogs/whatever it's the risk you take when you leave it there. Others seem to disagree, as described in the sticky at the top of the forum (link) where the advice includes, among other things, "If you find this person (or persons) has stolen either your cache or your trackable from a cache you should contact your local police and report it as a theft. Explain what geocaching is and that the cache container/trackable is your personal property and make sure you get a crime report reference number." I really struggle to see how it's anything other than a waste of police time to report the theft of a sandwich box under a dead tree however much the people responsible might be spoiling our fun. If the cache container is broken resulting in the contents getting wet and mouldy then it's even more of a waste of time. That said if police advice is that removal of a cache container is considered to be theft (as the sticky thread says) on the basis it was placed there deliberately rather than abandoned, it does raise the question of when a deliberately placed container can be considered to be abandoned and removed without legal ramifications. I think it's silly that the police are involved in what seems to me to be nothing more than a squabble between rival groups, so I'd personally be disinclined to make a public statement that I'd removed and destroyed what could be identified as someone else's private property whatever the state of it. The Post your referring to, was posted to specifically help deal with, Person(s) unknown. Who openly admit in their logs, that they have trashed and stolen the containers and contents. Including any Trackables they find. They actually acknowledge that they are stealing the container, in their post. Deci I hope the reviewers can see the distinction between the idiots who go out to damage the game and the suggestion that I'm making here. I would like an opinion from yourselves as to this idea. I hope that people realise that if we start to adopt this approach we will enhance everyone's enjoyment of the hobby and increase the respect and friendliness in the community. Start to address the number of caches that must be out there that have been archived and are now just littering and speed up the process of replacing broken boxes.
  3. Ok just to clarify. We're talking about a cache container which has broken local to yourself. Who exactly is going to report you for theft? The cache owner who hasn't logged on in years and doesn't respond to your message? Or the cache owner who responds to your message, in which case it's not theft as you've contacted the owner to either get it to them or confirm they want you to replace with a new box. In the first case you would obviously get a TB or coin moving and out of a broken box then throw away the container once the reviewer gives up trying to get the owner to respond. In The second you get the box to the owner or, if you're able to and they ask you, you can replace the damaged box. There is no theft. You're CITOing and improving the game and country.
  4. Still no answer then? Amazing how long they can ignore a valid legal question. Guessing Jeremy will go for the "no comment" interview in August when he pops over...
  5. OK, so when people talk about wanting to take action against people to destroy their caches (using complaints to the police etc) how do the police legally differentiate between an apparently abandoned sandwich box under a dead tree and an apparently abandoned beer bottle under a dead tree? I agree the police are unlikely to spend too much time investigating the theft of a sandwich box containing a few McFluffytoys that the owner deliberately left in a public place hoping nobody would find it, but how does "permanently depriving" the owner change between the owner of the sandwich box and the owner of the beer bottle? I know it's arguably a silly example but it seems unlikely that a council's litter picking crew is expected to make any attempt at all to contact the owners of the assorted beer bottles, crushed cans, bike wheels etc that they dredge out of the river. Common sense is the usual method employed. Certainly when I was in that role that's what I used. It's not theft. They did not "dishonestly appropriate" it might be considered theft by finding in which case all you need to do is take reasonable steps to contact the owner. Common sense then applies again. An expensive container full of coins would require you to make emails or more sensibly just to release them in another cache. Just in case I didn't make it clear. I'm talking about containers that are knackered not just a bit damp or just where someone no longer caches.
  6. Which is exactly why the idea of volunteers 'helping out reviewers' would never fly. From a legal POV the cache remains the property and responsibility of the CO - even after it has been abandoned and left to rot. If another cacher even with the very best of intentions goes and removes the rubbish they do so without any endorsement or support from GS or its agents. I'm not a lawyer but I always thought that there is a legal concept of property being considered to be abandoned and therefore in a state where removing it and disposing of it would not be unlawful. I'm just not sure what criteria would need to be met for property to be considered abandoned as opposed to left behind for later retrieval. Presumably litter blowing in the street is considered abandoned property and fair game to be removed and destroyed. What legal definition differentiates between something like a sandwich box under a fallen tree and something like an empty beer bottle under a fallen tree could be interesting. When I hide a cache in the woods, it was placed for this hobby and will be removed when it no longer serves it's purpose. If a non-cacher finds it and removes it, it'll tick me off a bit, but they aren't playing the game. Doesn't really matter if they know of it. If a cacher, knowing of the game and recognizing the container as a cache in play removes it, they would be intentionally depriving me of my property. - I would consider that theft. Not wishing to be rude here, but if it comes to removing a box that seems to have been abandoned by the person who put it there it's of more concern whether the law would consider to be theft or not. We could discuss theoretical what-ifs all day (e.g. what if a tramp were to return a couple of days later for the half-inch of beer he left in the bottle that was under the dead tree - would the litter pickers be guilty of stealing from him if they had thrown his bottle away?), but without a legal definition of when property is considered abandoned it's just a load of uninformed opinions (and to be clear, I'm not a lawyer so my opinion is no more informed than anyone else's). The definition of theft:dishonestly obtaining property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving them. More pertinent in this case is theft by finding which is a form of theft. However, if you make reasonable attempts to contact the owner to return the property you are not assuming ownership. Reasonable attempts would be message via the website where the item is listed. Or if you're really concerned just take the item to the local police station and hand it in explaining the situation. You have then no chance of arrest. There is no offence if you attempt to contact the owner and get no joy. The likelihood of the police arresting you over the removal of a couple of pounds worth of broken plastic box is very slight, they tend to have better things to do.
  7. This idea isn't without it's risks and we are talking about ones that will need to be seriously repaired or replaced. The only other option would be to have your idea or a few volunteers to help the reviewers by being willing to go out to collect caches that have been archived. Otherwise we know as a hobby, that we're littering the countryside.
  8. Surely better for the next finder to find a dry well maintained cache? That assumes the next finder doesn't come by until after the cache has been nurtured and returned to its hidey hole. If you take a cache home and then get delayed in returning it there's no way of knowing how many people might hunt for it in the meantime, possibly not having read your log that says "the cache isn't there, I took it home for some TLC". But I would also have posted a needs maintenance and the only reason that the cache wouldn't have been temporarily archived by the owner would be that they no longer cache or monitor their caches... Plus we are talking about caches which are not repairable in the field not just a little bit damp.
  9. Theft requires you to assume ownership of the property, to have removed the item dishonestly and to have made no attempt at contacting the rightful owner to get the property back to them. Whilst the system update you suggest doesn't exist I just thought it might be an idea to adopt this approach, helps maintain active caches and remove those that are abandoned.
  10. Surely better for the next finder to find a dry well maintained cache?
  11. OK, flak jacket on but I thought I'd canvas opinions on an idea. A way to help other cachers and to get rid of geolitter. A scenario for you: You are caching local to yourself, you find a container that is broken or soaking wet with no chance of being able to affect a repair in the field. When you look online the owner hasn't logged on in a good while. Do you just log a needs maintenance and go on your way or.. As an alternative, do you log a needs maintenance and take the cache home where you can clean/dry/replace the container and message the cache owner to let them know that you're happy to either replace it or get it to them? (this is assuming that you don't have a suitable amount of cleaning materials/ log books and replacement container with you) Should the cache owner be one of the many that no longer caches you are able to dispose of the container as and when the reviewer decides to archive the cache. This is nothing to do with being cache police, rather helping out fellow cachers and the community as a whole. Saving an extra journey by the cache owner and saving discarded boxes from being left forever in situ. The alternative would appear that you post a needs maintenance, a month later someone else does similar...a couple of months later someone gets round to posting a needs archive...a couple of weeks later the reviewer gives up trying to get a reply from the CO and archives it. Then no one is aware that there is a container left littering. I'm sure there will be those that say that such behaviour might risk prosecution for theft, though the act of contacting the owner immediately stops that. I'm also sure that there are some that will vehemently disapprove. I have done this, it saved the cache owner from having to go out into the field to do what I could do immediately, I've then subsequently replaced the repaired box and again saved the owner from a trip...but in one instance I saved there being geolitter as the owner no longer cached. Obviously this is only something I would ever consider for a cache local to myself.
  12. A good point, well made. However why should European customers be the only ones to have a price rise? To be honest if they just fessed up there would be less angst wouldn't there? lol It's back to the good old days when jeremy had his little game and if we didn't like it tough.
  13. The rights of way officer at the council might be able to help too. Otherwise look for the nearest farmhouse ( assuming it's on farmland) knock on the door and ask, most people are quite amenable if you ask first
  14. How does one go about reporting a crime of corporate fraud in the USA? I would assume that you don't need to be a USA citizen to do so. So we could all inform the authorities that a firm is possibly fibbing. I do like the way that we've gone back to the good old days when we were routinely ignored if we had any issues because it was Jeremy's game and if you didn't like it then tough. At the end of the day the lackeys know there's little they can say so they're just letting everyone vent hoping it'll all blow over. Now what to look up first, HMRC "report a tax fraud" or USA "Internet crime reporting"
  15. I'm sure HMRC do take a very dim view of people charging a fee labelled as VAT and then not passing it on to them. It's hard to see what action they could take against Groundspeak even if they were conclusively proven to be doing such a thing, as they are a US company and therefore presumably not subject to UK legislation. As things stand unless Groundspeak issue an invoice that clearly shows a VAT component I imagine they could just deny they had charged VAT at all, even the existence of a thread like this wouldn't prove anything as they could easily claim that the people posting under the "lackey" tag were misinformed. That's my point. Whilst Jeremy and his upper management are safely behind the American no extradition rules he's safe as houses. However, once he or they set foot in England he would potentially face arrest. His website clearly shows that it includes VAT, all lackeys are reinforcing this in this and any other discussion. This is easily documented. So, the website shows an increase for VAT, we are left with a few alternatives: He is charging VAT and is making full payment to HMRC but is not telling anyone his VAT number for some reason, He is charging VAT and making no payment to HMRC making him liable to arrest in this country, He is fraudulently claiming to be charging VAT and is liable to arrest by the Police in this country. Not a good set of options really. Wouldn't it be far simpler to say that he needed some extra funds? Why the subterfuge and misdirection? Regarding whether he commits offences in this country by using a website in another, haven't people been convicted of various offences in America whilst they are physically in the UK?
  16. Here's an idea to liven up this years Mega event. Invite Jeremy over as per usual.... and then we tell the Inland Revenue that he has been claiming VAT for all transactions that UK residents have made. I'm being very serious here, Jeremy could very likely be facing a little chat with the UK authorities if he or any of his senior lackeys set foot on UK soil. Please feel free to correct me as I'm not a UK tax expert but I am under the impression that they frown upon companies not paying the VAT that they've charged their customers.
  17. Interesting turn of events. I've not been premium for a couple of years but it certainly used to be the case that we paid in dollars. I recall a time when the exchange rate was low so we prepaid several years due to the effective low costs. So when did Groundspeak decide to alter it to paying in local currency? It would appear that this decision created the "problem" of exchange rates altering the gross revenue of the company. Simply return it to buying premium in dollars and allow the rest of the world to shoulder the fluctuations of the money markets. Increasing it by an arbitrary amount and claiming it's to cover Vat and a buffer amount is duplicitous and tantamount to fraud. I may not be a tax expert but if you cannot supply a Vat number as proof you are paying taxes in this country then you have committed fraud to be claiming you are. Check the definition of the crime of fraud before anyone shouts me down. Premium membership does not cost a huge amount, but once you remove the the stats all we actually get for our money is PQ's; in other words access to the caches we have populated your website with. I will happily apologise if evidence appears to show tax is and has been paid in the UK or any legal reason that we are paying more than the USA which includes blatant profiteering. At the moment though it would appear that all that is being said is flimsy excuses and easily defeated reasons that are simply not true and border on fraud.
  18. Sorry chris I wasn't being funny. I know that there was a blanket ban on commercial interests I just remember you all coming back from a jolly walk with Jeremy in Wales having shown him how we use pubs as directions. I understood that it was agreed that he didn't understand previously how the British are different in that to the Americans and that subsequently it would be ok to use them in that manner. But I may be mis remembering that. At the end of the day it's farcical but call the multi "Pub crawl" say that there are several stops along the way but that you wont be mentioning anything about them specifically. Each stage is identified by some code word....maybe Todka, Hitter, Hager...... can't see that it would fall foul unless you specifically say that people should partake in anything that they couldn't decide for themselves as they walked.
  19. I will stress I'm making no suggestion of any unlawful intent but I think you need to read this definition before you decide whether you are allowed to alter what happens to any money collected for charitable purposes.... fraud act 2006 section 2 "fraud by false representation"
  20. Well it just involves using bits of information that can be obtained from the locations..." the third letter of the large name you can see" etc. It's not promoting a specific business surely if it's called "Pub crawl" Didn't we get agreement last year that we can use pubs as reference points to give directions? How is that different from using them as points on a multi that guides you around the area... you aren't promoting a thing unless you mention how good the food or beer is in each establishment. Just leave it to the cachers to decide if and when they wish to stop for a rest......
  21. I would say that the only danger could exist if a reviewer messaged privately a child. This is no more dangerous than any other user doing the exact same thing except possibly their position giving more weight to the message. I would presume that all communicating done by reviewers is recorded for evidence anyway and as long as its done in a manner that the reviewer cannot delete it then any wrong doing would be traceable.
  22. I love the fact that when you begin a hot topic you will always get suggestions that you should leave the hobby lol Personally I would love to be able to block out all caches in urban overlooked areas. I think I can honestly say that I've only ever seen a couple of caches in those locations that I'm glad I found. All the varied caches described earlier with clever hides, tubes, intricate things to do...they've all been around since the very early years, all the caches at the start were far from clear boxes covered with twigs. They're still around now. There are talented people placing clever caches....but there are others who place a large number of caches that have been bulk sorted with the originality of a supermarket display shelf. Have I had fun at big events? Yes. But mainly within a small group who were together. Mostly I have found that smaller, anything from 30-300 are much better. Having 200 plus people all together interacting as one is exceptional. Go this weekend to either large event or in a couple of weeks to the other mega. Will you honestly see 200 people interacting together as one ( and one of the talks doesn't really count) or will you see 60 small groups of people a few of who will mingle to another group? Will it stop me attending events? yes, should it stop you? entirely your choice I make no judgement. (quick tell me that I should find a new hobby lol )
  23. Sounds silly but that's much harder than you might think. It would be easier to tell you the few to avoid. Fritham is a great spot to start from, lovely pub and quite a few caches within reachable distance all worth doing. Wilverley plain has a few in the woods and across the lawn. Bolderwood, North west of Lyndhurst. Deer viewing platform ( not that you should have any trouble seeing deer) and several caches within walking distance. There's 150 caches and at least 140 are excellent
  24. I now only cache if Hazels plans it because I can't be bothered to wade through all the detritus to get the good caches out. However, if you want a breath of fresh air, come to the New Forest, the number of caches is limited and the distance tends to be higher. Now call me a trouble maker but for some reason I would say nearly every cache within the forest is above average in quality. Cause and Effect?
  25. Like has been said, though I have to admit not wading through every reply, the Police received a report that someone thought something was suspicious. We, and the OP, do not know what the background is here. There may well be many instances of things going on the the area or there could've been instances of criminal activity using that car park. Drug dealers, for instance, sometimes use locations like that to do their deals. Yes on the bare facts that we have been told, sitting in a car does sound excessive reasons to knock on someone's door and ask them what they were doing! Though in the grand scheme of things that isn't exactly a Police state behaviour is it. The ability or disability of the recipient to this attention bares zero relevance. Neither does the actual lawful activity that they were doing. A report was filed and a decision was made to speak to the driver. Once completed it was probably filed never to be considered ever again. It's little things like chatting to people and seeing what's going on that allows the police to collate information and spot issues. Unfortunately, burglars do not walk around in stripy tops with masks, perverts do not were long coats with bags of sweets, bad people do not have that tattoed on their foreheads. They look like everyone else!!
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