LSUFan

Welcome to benchmarking. A good place to start is the FAQ section: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/default.aspx where an intersection is explained: Intersection Stations (a Type of Horizontal Control) An intersection station is a prominent landmark, such as a water tower, radio tower, church spire, mountain top, or any other type of object that can be observed from a distance. These kinds of "large object" station markers, known as intersection stations because of the way their coordinates are calculated are usually landmarks higher in the air than any surrounding objects, which allows them to be seen from many miles away in several directions. By observing one or more such points through a telescope, surveyors can determine positions on the surface of the Earth through the use of trigonometry. Intersection Stations Intersection stations are surprisingly tricky. Be sure to read the entire datasheet carefully. Pay particular attention to the first date the structure was reported or established as a survey mark (usually listed as the date "First Observed"). The structure you find must be one that you're certain existed and appeared the same way as it did on that date. If the structure was re-built then the station is effectively destroyed since the re-built version of the structure might be in a slightly different position. If you're uncertain about what happened during the time between when the structure was first monumented (observed) and the present, check with the structure's building manager. Since all intersection stations have adjusted coordinates, they must be at the published coordinates. If there is no such marker at the published coordinates, then the mark should be considered destroyed. If you find a structure that seems to be the correct one, but your GPS indicates that the position is incorrect, you have not found the correct mark. If the intersection station is a water tower, read the datasheet carefully to note the details of the description of the water tower, and the first date the water tower was reported or established as a survey mark. For example, the datasheet says the water tower has 4 legs, has a cone shaped top, and was monumented in 1931. * If you found a water tower that has 6 legs or just one leg (a standpipe), then the water tower station has been replaced, and the water tower station described is destroyed. * If you found a water tower that looks newer than one built in 1931, then the water tower station has been replaced, and the water tower station described is destroyed. * If you found a water tower that has 5 legs and a round top, then the water tower station has been replaced, and the water tower station described is destroyed. * If you have found a water tower that is in the wrong coordinates, then it is not the correct water tower, even if it is what was described in the datasheet, because all water tower stations are location adjusted and cannot be at the wrong coordinates. You should go to the position of the datasheet's coordinates as indicated by your GPS receiver. If the correct water tower is not there, then the station is destroyed.

That does sounds good in theory ArtMan, but really how many casual geocachers actually upload to the NGS, or post recovery reports directly to the NGS. Even some of our diehard benchmarkers here in this forum do not file recovery reports with the NGS I would venture to say, that it is an extremely small percentage, especially when compared to all the benchmark photos on gc.com. I think DaveD has said in another forum post of the actual number of photos (thousands) he has harvested off the gc.com site. I do agree that they will be better off in the NGS computers....which is probably one of the reasons why DaveD goes to all the trouble he does. Hopefully, there will be some sort of solution found to allow the photos to stay like they always have been.

(Emphasis added by me.) Now, I've seen pictures of bearing trees and other items in trees - but I have never heard or seen images of a *disk* in a tree. This is news to me. Has anyone ever seen this? WOW! never seen this, but there are lot's of things I have never seen. I'd hate to be a sawmill worker and have a tree come in with a disk in it unbeknownst.

Mike, I'm not at my computer now that has DSWorld installed on it. I can't remember if the date is auto-filled from your last report or not. I do remember your name, initials, and GEOCAC being auto-saved. As far as the condition of the mark, it's just a mouseclick for it...unless you are on a notebook/netbook/smartphone. Yes, you can edit the setting codes (Maybe DaveD has more to say on that), and the program will actually ask you if you know the placement agency (like CGS)stamped on the marker if they are blank when submitting the report. In the screenshot I used above, I actually filled in the logo part for the CGS.......and the part about the disk projecting 3.5 inches above the ground. You are able to edit each white field shown on the screenshot above.

Thanks, Dave. I'm planning to migrate towards DSWorld, and this might be just the reason to do so...at an accelerated pace. Can I hijack my own thread? One of the things that has me baffled about the program is the apparent non-existence of 'GEOCAC' as a possible recovery agency. AZ, it is there. At first, I had to do a little searching to find it too. Using the recovery form for the latest version of DSWorld 2.10.19 I have installed: After you first enter in the PID number for the mark, and hit enter....a lot of the boxes will fill in themselves. You can then add/edit the rest of the information as needed. 1. Under the Recovery Information------in the Rec Agency drop-down box, select the letter L (Miscellaneous Commercial or Private Firms) 2. Once L is selected, in the next drop-down box to the right (Recovering Agency), scroll down and select GEOCAC (Geocaching. The program wil remember this, and future recovery reports will have the GEOCAC box already filled in for you. Here is an example: You can actually roll your mouse over each blank box (the white area) in the recovery form, and will get a pop-up telling you what goes there. Ex: The C.O.P. box is for the initials of the person responsible for recovering the mark. You will also notice from the above screenshot, just how much more information can be submitted with each recovery report now......like the relation of the disk to the surface (flush, recessed, projecting).....the code of the agency stamped on the mark......the ability to update the coordinates or county/state...etc. You'll click the TEXT button at the bottom to open up a secondary window to submit your actual recovery text/report. Make sure to do this BEFORE you hit the submit button. As DSWorld is kinda a little intimidating, I suggest that for those of us just starting out with DSWorld, to spend some time using the help files of the program. Malcolm has some excellent information (along with screenshots)of how to utilize the program. Reading (viewing screenshots) the help file about submitting recovery reports is a good thing, especially on how to submit the recovery text. I think once you get the hang of it, everyone will really like it. One of the things I really like about DSWorld, is it's google earth interface. I like to view the recent HH loads, and the program opens up google earth and shows you the locations. Now, I really like that when you click on each location, the program will not only let you view the NGS datasheet...but also has the geocaching page link for the mark too (if available). I guess this is for everyone to be able to access both websites/databases for information on the marks. Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.

I welcome Malcolm's guidance and look forward to it. I just submitted CQ1271 using the latest version of DSWorld. I used the recovery report there to update the scaled coordinates. (I usually have submitted these in a separate section of DSWorld). I hope I understood a section of the recovery report correctly, after the stability. It has Fl/Proj/Rec along with the next boxes to place the measurements. I am assuming (I didn't find the answer in the help file yet) that these abbreviations mean Flush, Projecting,Recessed....for the mark in relation to the ground level.

I asked this same question of Malcolm(DSWorld) back in April. Here is his reply: From: Bobby Tedford [mailto:wmtire@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 2:17 PM To: Malcolm Archer-Shee Subject: RE: DSWorld problem Malcolm, I had a question for you, not that it's a big thing, but just wondering if there was a reason for it. When using the photo editing part of DSWorld, the program will save the name of the pic for you using your parameters you stated for the pic. It names it by PID, Station name, Photo type (1, 2,3), direction facing, and date. However when you use the program to place a standard label on the pic, it reverses the first two parameters and the label states Station name first, then the PID. Like I said, I was just wondering if there was a reason for this difference. I was guessing that it had something to do with the way the NGS indexed the information Bobby -------------------------------------------------------- Bobby, The naming and labeling requirements were established by the folks at NGS that manage contracting. The logic, as I understand it, is that the name was more important for the label (caption) than the PID, but the filename had to begin with the PID for data processing purposes. It, unfortunately, has caused some confusion among submitters. Note also that spaces and commas are required in the caption but are not allowed in the name, again for data processing purposes. Malcolm

Just a little note, to add to PFF's post above. For anyone who doesn't utilize the program DSWorld, it will do all of the above editing correctly for you. It will rename your photo to NGS specs, and also place the proper formatted caption on the photo. You can also use the program to batch submit the photos after you have edited them to your satisfaction. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PC_PROD/PARTNERS/index.shtml

Just like TillaMurph's describes, we are all proud to be the first one to log a benchmark, especially one that doesn't have a recovery report since it was placed. Although geocaching.com will keep up with the number of benchmarks you log on their site, it doesn't add these benchmark numbers to your geocache find totals. The two numbers are kept separate. Best of luck, and feel free to ask any questions here as you delve into the fun hobby of benchmarking.

Hmmmm, guess it's time to add an AR-15 and few hundred rounds of ammo to my benchmarking bag.

Welcome to benchmarking. It is a little different than geocaching, but can be more rewarding. I recommend reading the me first tutorials.....especially the difference between scaled vs adjusted coordinates. There are also several ways to download the datasheets directly from the NGS and put them in your gps units. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=113335 I have gathered much of the information, along with software links, gleaned from these forums and fellow benchmarkers. I tried to place a lot of it here: http://www.nelageo.net/index.php/forum/13-benchmarking-and-related-topics/6841-benchmark-101 http://www.nelageo.net/index.php/forum/13-benchmarking-and-related-topics/12706-benchmarking-with-a-nuvi http://www.nelageo.net/index.php/forum/13-benchmarking-and-related-topics/12633-ngs-gpx-datasheet-conversion-programand-gsak

While this one isn't necessarily silly, it did have a kind of WOW factor from the 1935 description. I hated the courthouse was closed, as I would have really liked to have gotten the details on it. Here is the link,CQ0938 01/01/1935 by CGS (GOOD) DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1935 IN JONESBORO. SET HORIZONTAL ON THE EAST END OF THE FIRST CONCRETE STEP OF THE NORTH ENTRANCE TO THE JACKSON PARISH COURTHOUSE. NOTE-- COURTHOUSE WAS DESTROYED BY AN EXPLOSION IN 1936. I guess the note was added after the fact, from the dates provided.........or it was a Nostradamus recovery report. EDIT: I found a newspaper story about it from 1936: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1817&dat=19360116&id=Keg-AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Kk0MAAAAIBAJ&pg=2707,666740

Hmmm Mike, it appears ya both have the same last initials. You don't have......oh just for the sake of conversation....another personality per chance. Not that's there anything wrong with that Sybil, so you can put the knife down. If you do have another one, he must be the procrastinator, being a week behind.

I have a feeling you are referring to ScaredyCats Benchmark viewer. If you will scroll down to the bottom of the map page it explains the colors and symbols. Here is the simple gist of it Green- last recovery report was a find in good condition White- no recovery reports Red- last recovery report was a did not find/missing or other Black- mark destroyed The S or A means Scaled or Adjusted EDIT: Here is the FAQ section that also explains it from ScaredyCats Viewer http://www.scaredycatfilms.com/benchmarks/faq.html

Tillamurphs informed me that the nelageo site where I parked a copy of this sheet, was requiring a registration to be able to download it. I placed a copy of it in the free google docs. It should show you the sheet as well as let everyone download, copy, or print it. Just click on the file tab at the top left of the screen and choose which option you want. Here is the link to it https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5IX4cufAX-rNDRkNTEzNTktOTNlOC00NTUwLWE4ZWYtZGQwNGE0NWNlYzM5

Woo-hoo, Patty sent me the exact one I was looking for. If anyone knows the original author, I would like to credit them for it. I placed a copy of it in our local geocaching forum, if anyone wants to download a copy. http://www.nelageo.net/index.php/forum/13-benchmarking-and-related-topics/14047-benchmark-explanation-sheet#14047 Thanks Patty.

LOL, Once I get it again, it will be saved on our local geocaching forum for all to get. Patty, I think that is it, but am not certain till I see it. Could you email it to me at hktire@aol.com or wmtire@yahoo.com? Thanks so much.

Ok, I am now officially jealous. As if the benchmark pics weren't bad enough, you just have to go ahead and rub this in our face. We don't have any A&W's around here anymore, much less a real drive-in one.

Several years prior (and a few computer crashes ago), I had downloaded a file that someone had made, that was a benchmarking explanation sheet. It briefly explained to landowners, what benchmarking and geodetic survey markers are, and our intent was just to take pictures and update numbers. It's real similar to the geocaching brochure that you can download from Geocacher-U. Can anyone be so kind as to point me back to this sheet/file, where I can save it again? Thanks

I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation....but instead am just fussing at Jim. Looking at all the work he is doing with the maps here, I keep seeing that Red River Parish in LA has no GEOCAC recoveries. Since I am going to be 'near' there this Friday (like 40 miles is near), I am feeling some strange, uncontrollable urge to sweep down there and color it in. It's all Jim's fault.

I can't say if it is everywhere, but we have had a rash of ammo boxes being taken in our area too.

If it works out the way the author of the article says it will, I guess a lot of us will be able to submit HandHeld 1 coordinates to the NGS.

I understand exactly, what you are experiencing. CP2772 was my "white whale" you could say. It consumed a lot of research time, and studying of aerial maps, trying to see if a trip was warranted just to look for it. I can say, you will eventually move on and start aiming your sights towards others, and that emptiness will fade away as you become goal-oriented again.. It's what makes the hunt so fun. As Tillamurphs states, Holograph's list of extreme benchmarks are always good. ' If nothing else, you can hang out in the forums here with your fellow 'Benchmarkers Anonymous' support group. We have a great 12 step(or approx. 36 feet from the center of the road) program

Here is some more reading to go with the excellent information provided by ArtMan (which was extremely interesting). You'll need to scroll down the page some. http://larrycoffin.blogspot.com/2009/03/boundary-disputes-dividing-land.html Maybe Papa-Bear-NYC can shed some more light on these boundary markers, as has found several of them previously and has written about them in these forums. The pics below are from his posts/logs. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=QH0734

I don't think it was the 'airway beacon'. How is a surveyor up in a Bilby tower going to sight on a concrete arrow in the ground? My thought is that the arrows were sometimes installed as daytime assistance, but the beacons were really intended for nighttime navigation. I agree with AZcachemeister. Even though the datasheet doesn't actually specify what the intersection station is, a concrete marker on the ground doesn't really fit the normal definition of an intersection station, but there are always exceptions: Intersection Stations (a Type of Horizontal Control) An intersection station is a prominent landmark, such as a water tower, radio tower, church spire, mountain top, or any other type of object that can be observed from a distance. These kinds of "large object" station markers, known as intersection stations because of the way their coordinates are calculated are usually landmarks higher in the air than any surrounding objects, which allows them to be seen from many miles away in several directions. By observing one or more such points through a telescope, surveyors can determine positions on the surface of the Earth through the use of trigonometry. I have actually been looking for some airway beacons intersection stations in LA as of late, and all of them were supposedly on top of towers.......as I assume TR1852 was too. A concrete airway "marker" is different from an airway "beacon".....even though they sound alike. I've always assumed that a beacon is a lighting fixture. We've been talking about some beacons in this forum (which is what got me interested in them): http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=282088 EDIT: Tillamurphs, I did some more research and found where Airway Beacon #9 TR1823 has been destroyed. However using that datasheet, you can see that even though it's initial report doesn't list the beacon being on a tower (just like the datasheet for Beacon #10 TR1852 from the same time frame)....you can see from it's subsequent reports, it was the beacon atop a tower: TR1823_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 10UEV3440904623(NAD 83) TR1823 TR1823 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By TR1823 HISTORY - 1941 MONUMENTED CGS TR1823 HISTORY - 1947 GOOD CGS TR1823 HISTORY - 1950 MARK NOT FOUND CGS TR1823 HISTORY - 1950 DESTROYED CGS TR1823 TR1823 STATION DESCRIPTION TR1823 DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1941 (JCS) STATION IS LOCATED ON THE W SIDE OF THE BELLINGHAM - FERNDALE ROAD APPROXIMATELY 4 MILES NW OF BELLINGHAM, WASHINGTON. TR1823 TR1823 STATION RECOVERY (1947) TR1823 RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1947 (RGH) DESCRIPTION ADEQUATE. TR1823 TR1823 STATION RECOVERY (1950) TR1823 TR1823'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1950 (CWC) THIS STATION, LISTED IN THE LIST OF GEOGRAPHIC POSITIONS NO. G-5410,SEATTLE TO BELLINGHAM, AS AIRWAY BEACON NO. 9 1941 WAS RECOVERED IN CONNECTION WITH PROJECT PH-26 (47) IN 1949. A RESUMPTION OF THIS WORK IN 1950 REVEALS THE FACT THAT THIS TOWER WAS BLOWN DOWN ON JANUARY 13, 1950 AND THE STATION DESTROYED. NO CONCRETE FOOTINGS REMAIN AND THE HOLES LEFT BY THE TOWER LEGS WILL SOON BE UNRECOGNIZABLE. TR1823 TR1823 STATION RECOVERY (1950) TR1823 TR1823'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1950 (HJB) THE BEACON TOWER WAS BLOWN OVER BY A STORM IN JANUARY 1950. THE AIRPORT OFFICIALS HAVE NOT DECIDED ON WHEN OR WHERE IT WILL AGAIN BE ERECTED. A NEW SITE IS BEING CONSIDERED. Legacypac and 2sly4u may have laid a goose chicken egg on this one, looking at their logs.