LSUFan

One of my geocaching/benchmark friends sent me a question about a benchmark he found which is EH0329 It appears that the USC&GS in 1934 sort of took over a USGS mark possibly from 1908. Below is my answer to my friend, but I wanted to let the experts here take a look to see what your thoughts are on it. I had never seen this scenario before. I have also never seen a USGS disk set in a post with this kind of inscription either.....but I don't get out much. Any help would be appreciated. Here was my reply: Richard, that is an interesting one, no doubt. Just looking at the disk itself, shows some peculiarities. It is a US Geological Survey(USGS) disk, who are the people who make the topo maps. What is odd, is that the US Coast and Geodetic Survey (which is now the NGS) stamped this USGS disk with their initials and converted it into one of theirs in 1934. Can't say I've ever seen that before. IMHO, I don't think the disk was added later (1934), but was originally there in 1908 and then overstamped in 1934. The designation itself, G30, tells me that is most likely part of of level line run. Looking at a map, you should see other marks in a line with the same 30 stamping, but the letter of the alphabet changed. Ex: A30, B30...Z30. They will usually follow roads, rr tracks, etc. The fact the concrete post itself, is engraved with USGS #3 leads me to believe that in 1908 it was possibly part of a triangulation station.....maybe reference mark #3. I can't really tell if the disk was stamped with anything in 1908, or if the #3 could have just came from the engraving in the post. If the disk was mostly blank, that may be why the NGS put their stamp on it in 1934. Not sure on this part though. Problem with USGS marks, is that they don't have any online database to search for active or destroyed marks. All of their info resides in filing cabinets in their regional offices, which you can send emails or make a call to...and they will do a search and send you the results.....if you want to attempt to find out the history of the original disk from 1908. Here is a link on how to do this: http://gallery.usgs.gov/audios/130#.UF98XqDN6So However, any mark (including USGS ones) that the NGS bluebooks for use in the National Spatial Reference System (which is what you see on gc.com) are in the online database maintained by the NGS, which you are reading the datasheet for, from the point the NGS accepted it (1934) If you don't mind, this would be a good one to show my buddies out in the national forums...to get their take on it.

ROFL

I have a picture but cannot post as i do not have an approved url for it. It appears to be this one. If it is indeed the correct mark that Holtie22 pointed out, why don't you go ahead and post a report for it on gc.com below, where you can add pictures of it for all us to see. Since you have it in your hand, it will need to be logged as "mark destroyed". http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=mu0016

TillaMurphs, thanks for the education.

Just a little side note, and actually the reason I quit using my pocket pc for paperless caching.......is that you can go paperless also if you are using one of the many Garmin Nuvi's. http://geocaching.totaltechworld.com/

Howdy, as I am not familiar with your particular unit, this advice is based off of my experience with using a pocket pc 2002 Dell Axim X5. The following may or may not work with your pda: One way is to get a program that will read gpx files to put on your pda. If your pda runs off a pocket pc/windows mobile platform (non palm operating system), you might could try gpxsonar (there are others)...which I was real satisfied with back when I used it on my Dell Axim X5. With gpxsonar, you would just run a pocket query on gc.com and download the resulting raw gpx file to your pda storage (a sd card on my X5). If your pda uses storage cards, you can use your computer to download gpx files direct to them, then install them in your pda......or you can do it thru the sync process with your computer/pda. You would then open up GPXSonar and it would automatically search for any/all gpx files (or you could manually point the program to where the gpx file was stored). Once the file loaded, you could see the title of the caches, and if the cache had travel bugs, etc from the main screen. You could doubletap the name of the cache and bring the whole page up, like you see on gc.com. Here is one place to get gpxsonar and see a screenshot of it http://www.handango.com/ProductDetail.jsp?siteId=2218&productId=123059

I am assuming the three marks are for triangulation station Campbellville. (if I did my coordinate search correct) http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=LT0708 It is going to be one of the two reference marks, as I can make out part of the words "reference mark" on the right-hand side of the disk. You can read the nc and rk parts. EDIT: I can also make out the word Campbell in the middle, so it's safe to say for sure now that it's a reference mark for the station. From reading the datasheet boxscore for Campbellville and the 1949 recovery report, this one appears to have two pairs of reference marks. One pair was placed by the USGS and the other pair by USC&GS. I can also read on the disk where you found one of the USC&GS reference marks. You could go back and find the triangulation station Campbellville, then do a measurement and compass direction search to figure out exactly which reference mark you found. You could even do a reverse azimuth from the RM and find the station.

You can do a search by what is stamped into the disk (designation). An example might be something like E 246 1.Go to the benchmark link at the bottom of geocaching.com. 2. Now click on the advanced search option at the bottom of the "Search for local benchmarks" box 3. Click the option to search by designation, and type in the designation you have. You might want to also narrow down the state too. 4. Click find benchmarks Now, don't forget. Any benchmark HAS to have been bluebooked and in the NGS database by the year 2000 for it to be listed on gc.com (and thus loggable there). If it has never been bluebooked by the NGS.... or was added to their database after 2000, it will not show up on gc.com.

Howdy Timbee and Suebee. First off, you may find lots of benchmarks in your travels, which won't be in the NGS or Geocaching database. This is an excerpt from the FAQ section linked below: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/ Benchmarks Not in the Database I found a benchmark, but it isn't in the database. Why? To answer this question, you need to understand a bit about what "the database" is. The database used by Geocaching.com is a copy (from around 2000) of the database that NGS maintains. Although the NGS database has lots of marks in it, it does not have them all. In order for a mark to get into NGS's database, it has to go through a process known as "bluebooking" which ensures the disk meets the minimum requirements to be of geodetic quality (aka the highest quality possible). The NGS is not the only organization that creates and uses benchmarks and other types of control markers. In order for any mark to get "in the database" they must be "bluebooked", which can take a lot of time and effort and is often not done to save money. Remember, even though some marks might not be in the database, they are still highly important, both to businesses and to individual citizens such as your neighbors, so please treat them with respect, while enjoying the thrill of the hunt. We'll try to find other databases and add them to the site as well. If you have access to one of these databases and would like to submit it to Groundspeak, contact us. Since the Groundspeak benchmark database was obtained from the NGS in the year 2000, newer benchmarks and recent reports on older marks will not be visible here in Groundspeak's copy. Besides new disks, there are many cases of benchmarks monumented significantly before 2000 but entered the NGS database only after the year 2000. The benchmark I found is not in the database, how can I log it? If the benchmark is a disk-type marker or is referenced in an online database, you can log your find in the US Benchmarks category in Groundspeak's Waymarking site. If the benchmark is in Canada, you can log it in the Canadian Benchmarks category in Waymarking.

If you are going to submit to the NGS (recovery reports, photos, updated handheld coordinates, county corrections, etc), there is a free piece of software called DSWorld you can download. It will help you edit the photos, and name them according to NGS specs....as well as do about everything else you will want. You can get it here. Make sure to read the help files once you download it. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PC_PROD/PARTNERS/index.shtml You can also watch the webinar that Malcolm gave on using DSWorld earlier this year here: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/corbin/class_description/DSWorld_0212.shtml We talked about it some here in this forum: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=288845&view=findpost&p=4947706

I have been playing around with the idea of making a benchmark tutorial utilizing GSAK for our local geocaching forum. Is this something that others here may want, considering how old this topic is?

Hi krazykatzen. Yes, most scaled marks have a +/- of six seconds. You are better off using the description for scaled marks, and it can be tough if the reference stuff has been removed or changed. I wouldn't think changing the datum would help, as the numbers you are currently using, are ones that usually came from someone taking a ruler and topo map to arrive at them for the scaled marks. They used the current datum, so if it's wrong with it now, it would be wrong with NAD27. Adjusted marks should already have been converted from NAD27 to the current datum. You do want to take gps readings with your handheld unit when you find scaled marks and submit them. Your gps numbers are going to be a lot closer than +/- 6 seconds. You do want to note new reference marks if the old ones are gone, as well as take pics of the mark, and things in relation to the mark (roads, houses, big trees, and other more permanent things) to aid in future recoveries. The following is taken from DSWorld's help file, in showing what the NGS would like from ones submitting recoveries: Field Procedure To recover a geodetic control station, follow the the 'to reach' narrative of the description to reach the area of the mark. Next, measure the distances from nearby reference objects as stated in the description. Sometimes the mark may be covered by dirt, leaves, or debris. Some marks may be buried as much as 2 ft below the surface of the ground if the mark is in a plowed field. Once the mark is found, check to see if the published description is adequate for future recovery. If not, make new measurements to nearby reference objects. Good reference objects are house corners, utility poles, roadway centerlines, fences, unique trees, headstones, property markers, drainage pipes, ditches, bridges and other permanent structures. Use at least five reference objects if possible. Avoid trees that are not unique or are likely to be cut for timber. Avoid using more that one pole from the same utility (the utility company may move or remove all of their poles at the same time). When using corners of buildings, bridges or other large structures, state which corner is used. In all cases the center of the object is implied unless otherwise stated. The following is an example of the reference paragraph: It is 50.6 feet northeast of the center of Blankenship Road, 35.2 feet Northwest of power pole number 235, 27.6 ft South-southeast of telephone pole number 2, 15.0 ft south of the headstone of Mildred E. Thompson, 3.0 ft Southwest of a witness post and set in the top of a 12-inch round concrete post flush with the ground. Next, capture the latitude and longitude of the point using a hand-held GPS receiver. Next take digital photographs of the point. Positioning a Bench Mark with a Handheld GPS Receiver General Information Navigational grade receivers, which are typically hand-held devices, are usually accurate to about 3-5 meters under most conditions. Positions from this type of receiver should be submitted to NGS as HH2 positions and shown to 1 decimal place of a second of Latitude and Longitude. This type of receiver is considered an Autonomous GPS (AGPS) receiver, even though it receives a corrector of sorts via the WAAS signal. GIS grade receivers, which are also hand-held devices, are usually accurate to less than 1 meter (3 ft) under most conditions. They receive a correction signal from the Coast Guard or other source which corrects the signal to sub-meter precision. Positions from this type of receiver should be submitted to NGS as HH1 positions and shown to 2 decimal places of a second of Latitude and Longitude. This type of receiver is considered a Differential GPS (DGPS) receiver. Survey grade receivers, usually tripod or pole mounted devices, are usually accurate to less than one centimeter (0.03 ft). These too can be submitted to NGS as HH1 positions and shown to 2 decimal places. One may also submit survey grade positions to NGS to 5 decimals, provided they meet NGS requirements for that type of positioning. HH2 and HH1 Positioning First, check to make sure the receiver is set up for NAD83, with the display in DDD MM SS.s format. The receiver must pick up the WAAS signal or other corrector. Standing to the north side of the monument, hold the GPS receiver over the monument for several seconds. Note the estimated accuracy of the position displayed. For AGPS receivers the accuracy should be less than 20 ft (6 meters). For DGPS receivers, the estimated accuracy should be less than 3 ft. (1 meter). If the accuracy exceeds this amount, tree cover or satellite configuration may be causing the problem. Revisit the point when satellite configuration is more favorable. Capture the position of the point. Change the name to the PID of the mark. Change the point description to the designation of the mark and save the point. When all recovered points have been positioned, export the file to a .gpx file using software supplied by the manufacturer. To submit the file to NGS, click here for more information. To submit a single position to NGS, click here for more information. Photo types: CLOSE-UP - A photo taken directly above the survey mark, approximately 18 inches away from the disk. Remove any equipment, dirt, debris, water, or snow to show a clear image of the complete mark. Avoid shadow lines crossing the disk. If there is a logo cap, the logo cap should be open to show the datum point. The intent of this photo is to clearly show the mark, its condition, and all stamping on the mark or logo cap so that it is clearly legible. EYE-LEVEL - A photo taken directly above the survey mark from eye level to show the monument and cover an area about 1 meter in radius, all around the mark. Remove any equipment, dirt, debris, water, or snow from the mark to clearly show the disk and the setting. If it has a logo cap, the logo cap should be open to show the datum point. The intent of this photo is to show the general condition of the mark and the immediate surrounding area, especially any condition that would be a threat to the stability or permanency of the mark. HORIZONTAL - A daylight photo oriented horizontally, with the tripod or a target highlighting the mark location, and with reference objects, significant obstructions, or possible multi-path sources in view. Remember to record the direction the photo is facing.

Those are some good pics, and clear water. Yes, it should be reference mark 1 for triangulation station RAN. You can even read where it has 'reference mark' engraved into the disk at the backend side of the arrow.

Pictom, see if this matches what you found. You can look up marks by their stamping (or designation) if you know the county and/or state where they are located by using the NGS website or their free software called DSWorld. GPS coordinates work also to search by. By designation search: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_desig.prl http://www.geocaching.com/mark/nearest.aspx'>http://www.geocaching.com/mark/nearest.aspx or by county, which shows all the marks in the county and you can read the designation at the end of the line to see what matches (the way I did it as it shows all for Pierce County, WA): http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_county.prl It sounds like you found reference mark 1 (RM1) to what is called triangulation station RAN. The arrow on the reference mark actually points to the main mark which is close by, around 30 meters according to the datasheet. Here is the datasheet for the triangulation station RAN http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=SY3114 Each mark that is in the NGS computer files aka 'database' (which is what is on gc.com from around the year 2000) has a unique 6 digit permanent identifying number which RAN is SY3114. This is how it is referenced in the database, not by what is stamped on the disk. You could have many disks with the same stamped stuff, but the unique 6 digit permanent identifier (or PID) is what separates them all from one another. The PID for RM1 that you found is CE5008. Sometimes the reference marks will have their own datasheets but usually are listed just on the main stations sheet, which is the one for RAN or SY3114. Also, not all benchmarks are stamped disks. They can be bolts, nails, chisel marks, bottles, etc. These kind of marks won't have any kind of name stamped on them, and can only be identified by their 6 digit PID. Here is the gc.com page for SY3114 http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=SY3114'>http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=SY3114 From reading the description and subsequent recovery reports for station RAN, it is probably destroyed though. As you are just starting out in benchmarking, there is a little learning curve. One of the first things to remember, is that not every benchmark you randomly run across will be listed either on gc.com or in the NGS database. You lucked out this time and it was, but don't always count on it. There are literally hundreds of thousands of benchmarks that are not listed in the databases that gc.com or the NGS has available online....that were placed by all kind of different government agencies and private companies. As you learn more about benchmarking, then you will start to actively search for them....usually by intentionally seeking out a benchmark in the database instead of randomly running across them. A good place to begin this education, is gc.coms own help page: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/ Also feel free to contact me with any questions, and I'll be glad to try and help if you don't feel comfortable posting questions in the benchmark section.......however benchmarkers are the most helpful people there are. You will become a benchmark pro in no time. P.S. Since what you found is a reference mark to a triangulation station, you might want to learn about what exactly a tri-station is and the other marks that go with it. They are actually a little different from just a single benchmark that is the most common. Tri-stations are actually my favorite of all benchmarks to find. Here is more reading on them. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361

I sent you an email. We are taking our family vacation in the Black Hills starting next Friday, and these would be neat mementos. Would you mind if I showed these on our local geocaching website down here in Louisiana? Bobby

My understanding is like TillaMurphs. You can add on the DSWorld recovery form if the mark is flush, projecting, or recessed with the surrounding ground/surface level. I attached some screenshots of where this information goes on the recovery form. There will three boxes...the first being a dropdown box stating if the mark if F, P, or R. The second/middle fill-in box will be the actual numerical value of the measurement. The third dropdown box will allow you to place the measurement type of inches, centimeters, or feet. An example would be P 3.0 IN (projecting 3 inches).

I use it a lot. Besides submitting HH2 coordinates and pics (which I have had some posted to the datasheet within 2 days), I use it to see what marks are listed in the wrong county from the google earth interface.....and send in corrections thru DSWorld for this. Hopefully, by more of us using the program and submitting info thru it, it will save our Ninja Dave Doyle some effort that he has spent harvesting from our gc.com logs. One of the biggest things I utilize is putting captions on photos and renaming my photos to NGS standards with the "edit photo" function of DSWorld. It takes a little hands-on experience with the program, and new features get added.....but it shouldn't intimidate you. GSAK made me anxious to start with, and now I don't know how I made it without it. DSWorld is the same way. As ArtMan pointed out in another forum when Malcolm presented the webinar on the program, you can view this webinar from the link here, to get a basic understanding of the program: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/corbin/online_learning.shtml

Thanks for the links Gitchee-Gummee. Mike I almost wish you hadn't shown me the Devils Tower Top link. Now I have to look at all those incorrect geocaching logs, where they logged a disk instead of the tower itself PV0523. From reading the logs, it appears the park rangers themselves are really the ones confusing the issue.

I am planning a trip to the see Mount Rushmore, Devil's Tower, and nearby attractions. I am planning to stop by Belle Fourche, SD to see the Geographic Center monument they have at the visitors center. Has anyone else visited the real benchmark located about twenty miles north, and is there anything that would keep the average joe from getting to it (no trespassing, etc). Here is an article I found that features our own Ninja Dave Doyle, when they were planning to build the visitors center monument (pic below), as well as a website that shows the actual center triangulation station PU2386: http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=4867 When Alaska and Hawaii joined the union in 1959, the National Geodetic Survey designated Belle Fourche, a ranch town of 4,500 residents in western South Dakota, the geographic center of the USA. Truth is, the marker for the center — as determined by the same agency — lies about 20 miles north of the town on an uninhabited parcel of private pastureland. "It's off a gravel road, and you have to go into a ditch, cross a barbed-wire fence, and maneuver amongst the cactus and cow pies to find it," said Teresa Schanzenbach, executive director of the Belle Fourche Chamber of Commerce. Roughly 6,000 travelers come through the town's Center of the Nation Visitors Center each year, she said, but only about 1,500 are adventurous enough to seek out the marker. "Basically," Schanzenbach said, "it's a red-tipped fence post that stands up in the ground. We feel like we need something more worthy of being the center of the nation." So local leaders have a solution. They're "moving" the geographic center of the USA about 20 miles south, to get it closer to town. The new "Center of the Nation" monument — with a planned picnic area and flags of all 50 states — will be located off U.S. Highway 85, along the banks of the Belle Fourche River. That puts it near the visitors center, which houses the Tri-State Museum. "It will be more tourist-friendly," Schanzenbach said. "For years now, we've sort of neglected something that we could have capitalized on." The original marker will remain on its current site, she said, for hardy souls who wish to see the real thing. The 1959 site was determined, according to David Doyle, chief geodetic surveyor for the National Geodetic Survey, by using a map of the USA, pasted onto a hard surface like cardboard, and then balancing it on an object such as a pencil. Some rudimentary math was applied to allow for Hawaii and Alaska, he said. "There will be a group from the National Geodetic Survey here later this spring to resurvey the area," Schanzenbach said. The center "might move a little bit, but probably not that much." Not everyone in Belle Fourche is thrilled with the idea of shifting the focus away from the officially surveyed center. "I like it where it is right now," said Don Schuh, who owns the local Dairy Queen. "Why not keep things simple? It's not really on a well-traveled road, but it's sort of like having the 'world's largest ball of twine.' People will still go look at it." Others see too much expense going into the project, though Schanzenbach said most funds will come from private donations. She estimates that the granite-topped monument will cost at least $50,000 — and only about $7,500 has been raised so far. "There are other things we can spend money on," said J.A. Fletcher, who lives near the proposed monument site. "If the marker is at the actual geographical center right now, leave it where it's at." Plans are moving forward for the monument to be dedicated Aug. 21 — the same date Hawaii was admitted to the union 48 years ago. Representatives from the Geodetic Survey will present a bronze plaque at the ceremony. Schanzenbach said the governors of Alaska and Hawaii will be invited. "It's because of them that we are the center of the nation," she said. "We want to do this up right."

Well shoot, that is going to make it a lot longer drive for me to go see it now. I think that someone ought to pay for my trip, since they didn't ask my permission to remove it from here in LA. Seriously, I am glad they made the effort to preserve this piece of surveying history.

Blue canary pointed this one out to me. I know that triangulation stations are usually named for the town, landowner, or prominent feature. It makes you wonder how much head scratching (and other body parts) they might have done to come up with the name for EG1836.

I was reading this article in the January 2012 issue of "Lost Treasure" magazine. My first reaction was these plates weren't treasure, but benchmarks and witness posts. Anyhow, I thought my friends here may like the history of this, in case you haven't heard of it. Also let me know if you consider them benchmarks and witness posts too? Wouldn't it be nice to actually find one of these? From 1743 to 1748, Britain and France fought King George's War. During this war, England blockaded New France, breaking down the French fur trade. The British became the major trading partners with Native Americans in the Ohio valley. France claimed the Ohio Valley (and indeed the entire Mississippi basin) on the basis of the explorations made by La Salle in 1669 and 1682. Great Britain claimed the Ohio Valley on the basis of purchases from Native Americans in 1744. In fact, both the colonies of Virginia and Pennsylvania had claims on the Ohio valley, although in the 1740s and 1750s, Virginia was more active in pressing her claim. In 1748, Comte de la Galissoniere, the governor of Canada, ordered Captain Joseph Pierre Bienville de Celoron (1693-1759) to strengthen the French claim on the Ohio Valley. Céloron carried out this mission in the summer of 1749 by means of an expedition through the contested territory. He set out from Montreal on June 15, 1749, in a flotilla consisting of large boats and canoes. The expedition included 216 French and Canadians and 55 Native Americans. On the shore of Lake Erie, at the mouth of Chautauqua Creek in present-day Westfield, New York, the expedition cut a road over the French Portage Road, and carried their boats and equipment overland to Chautauqua Lake, then followed the Chadakoin River and Conewango Creek to the Allegheny River, reaching it on July 29, 1749. As it progressed, the expedition sought to strengthen France's claim to the territory by marking it at the mouths of several principal tributaries. At each point, a tin or copper plate bearing the French royal arms was nailed to a tree. Below, an inscribed leaden plate was buried, declaring the claims of France. This was a traditional European mode of marking territory, but it might have contributed to Native American anxieties about the intentions of the French, and thus ultimately had a counterproductive effect. When Céloron arrived at Logstown, in present day western Pennsylvania, he discovered some English traders there. Incensed, he evicted the traders and wrote a scolding note to the governor of Pennsylvania. He then hectored the Native Americans about French dominance of the region. This overbearing behavior offended the Iroquois in his party, some of whom returned to their homeland in present-day New York, tearing down copper plates as they went. The party then preceded past the current site of Pittsburgh, and down the Ohio River. A plate was buried at the mouth of the Muskingum River on August 16, 1749 and the mouth of the Kanawha River on August 18, 1749. In Lower Shawneetown at the Scioto River's mouth, he again encountered English traders. Céloron demanded that the English leave, but most refused. Five months after the expedition began, it returned to Montreal, arriving November 10, 1749. Céloron's journal is archived at Archives of the Department de la Marine, Paris, France (Galbreath, 12). In total, Céloron buried at least six lead plates. One was stolen by curious Indians almost immediately, possibly before it was even buried, and placed in British hands. Two more were found in the early 19th Century. Measuring about eleven inches long and seven and one-half inches wide, each lead plate was marked with an inscription as follows (Galbreath, 110-111): L'AN 1749 DV REGNE DE LOVIS XV ROY DE FRANCE, NOVS Céloron, COMMANDANT D'VN DETACHEMENT ENVOIE PAR MONSIEVR LE MIS. DE LA GALISSONIERE, COMMANDANT GENERAL DE LA NOUVELLE FRANCE POVR RETABLIR LA TRAN QUILLITE DANS QUELQUES VILLAGES SAUVAGES DE CES CANTONS, AVONS ENTERRE CETTE PLAQUE AU CONFLUENT DE L'OHIO ET DE TCHADAKOIN CE 29 JVILLET, PRES DE LA RIVIERE OYO AUTREMENT BELLE RIVIERE, POUR MONUMENT DU RENOUVELLEMENT DE POSSESSION QUE NOUS AVONS PRIS DE LA DITTE RIVIERE OYO, ET DE TOUTES CELLE~ QUI Y TOMBENT, et de TOUTES LES TERRES DES DEUX COTES JVSQVE AVX SOURCES DES DITTES RIVIERES AINSI QV'EN ONT JOVY OU DV JOVIR LES PRECEDENTS ROIS DE FRANCE, ET QU'ILS S'Y SONT MAINTENVS PAR LES ARMES ET PAR LES TRAIT TES, SPECIALEMENT PAR CEVX DE RISWICK D'VTRECHT ET D'AIX LA CHAPELLE." Translation: "In the year 1749, of the reign of Louis the 15th, King of France, we Céloron, commander of a detachment sent by Monsieur the Marquis de la Galissoniere, Governor General of New France, to reestablish tranquility in some Indian villages of these cantons, have buried this Plate of Lead at the confluence of the Ohio and the Chatauqua, this 29th day of July, near the river Ohio, otherwise Belle Riviere, as a monument of the renewal of the possession we have taken of the said river Ohio and of all those which empty into it, and of all the lands on both sides as far as the sources of the said rivers, as enjoyed or ought to have been enjoyed by the kings of France preceding and as they have there maintained themselves by arms and by treaties, especially those of Ryswick, Utrecht and Aix la Chapelle.". The French continued to press their claim to the Ohio Valley, and colonial friction with the British finally contributed to outbreak of the Seven Years' War. Here are links to more info and pics of the plate(s) http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=494 http://www.mariettaoh.net/government/monuments/monuments_4 http://www.wvculture.org/history/settlement/celeron01.html

EdrickV, is the macro anything similar to Klemmer & TeddyBearMama's or Bullygoat29's macros? http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=214523&st=0&p=3834263entry3834263

I have been reading up on the Battle of Blair Mountain, which holds it's place in U.S. history as the largest armed insurrection since the Civil War. It was miners vs mine owners, police, and the U.S. Army. What really caught my eye in the wikipedia article was near the end of the following paragraph. By August 29, battle was fully joined. Chafin's men, though outnumbered, had the advantage of higher positions and better weaponry. Private planes were hired to drop homemade bombs on the miners. A combination of gas and explosive bombs left over from the fighting in World War I were dropped in several locations near the towns of Jeffery, Sharples and Blair. At least one did not explode and was recovered by the miners; it was used months later to great effect during treason and murder trials following the battle. On orders from the famous General Billy Mitchell, Army bombers from Maryland were also used for aerial surveillance, a rare example of air power being used by the federal government against US citizens. One Martin bomber crashed on the return flight, killing the three members of the crew. Sporadic gun battles continued for a week, with the miners at one time nearly breaking through to the town of Logan and their target destinations, the non-unionized counties to the south, Logan and Mingo. Up to 30 deaths were reported by Chafin’s side and 50-100 on the union miners side, with many hundreds more injured. By September 2, federal troops had arrived. Realizing he would lose a lot of good miners if the battle continued with the military, union leader Bill Blizzard passed the word for the miners to start heading home the following day. Miners fearing jail and confiscation of their guns found clever ways to hide rifles and hand guns in the woods before leaving Logan County. Collectors and researchers to this day are still finding weapons and ammunition embedded in old trees and in rock crevices. Thousands of spent and live cartridges have made it into private collections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain Has any of our members here, found any of the aforementioned weaponry while benchmarking/geocaching there? It makes you wonder if there is a description on a datasheet someplace that reads similar: "mark is 35 feet southwest of twin trunk oak tree with 30-06 rifle barrel protruding from it"

I had a pleasant surprise this weekend. One of my geocaching friends presented me with a Bilby Tower geocoin for my birthday. I immediately remembered this forum. Now, I just have to get south to see the real one.