LSUFan

Well, I have definitely learned something new today. Thanks for the education, Bill. I agree with Glorkar, it would make a good travel bug......................but not a traveling/portable benchmark. Oh Well, thankfully it didn't have a lot of NGS recoveries submitted for it from the event attendees.

I have never even thought about something like that happening......but it doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the heads up, Bill.

That is exactly it, Dave. Excellent wording. Several of us were talking about getting a road trip up to find a stone benchmark placed out in 1878 in our local geocaching forums. We were getting pretty worked up for it. One of our non-benchmarking friends made the comment on "it just looked like a chunk of concrete to her". I told her that's where looks could be deceiving, it was chunk of a limestone. LOL Dave, I hope you don't mind, but I quoted your post above over on that forum too. I'm sure my fellow benchmarkers will totally agree and enjoy your words. P.S. I ordered the 3 for the price of 2 special they are having on the book also. Thanks

Congratulations on your find(s). I really like the look of your webpage, with the list of all your recoveries.

How do we do that? Just put them in the description submitted or is there another way? Yes, just put them in the description. However, if it is a recovery report submitted to the NGS directly (not on gc.com), remember to convert to the HDDDmmss format. Here is an example of how I do it, but the gurus here may have a lot better ways. NGS log Geocaching log

I didn't want to hijack another thread with this one, but was wanting everyone's opinion on what has happened here. NOW, if you want to read about the wrong mark being logged, then others claiming the wrong mark is the right mark....and still others claiming the right mark has been replaced by the wrong mark.....then check this one out that I was scoping for my vacation trip in a few months. The posted pics show the right mark sometimes, and some show the wrong mark. I read on the datasheet where two geocachers stated the station has been moved, but they still reported it as "good". http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=FG1888 What is ya's take on all this? It's a doozy

EDIT: Moved to it's own thread, as to not hijack this one any further http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=255105

Hmmm Harry, that reminded me again. I just found something similar to that situation, last month. Unfortunately, the cache page notes that there is a benchmark beside the cache, which I am sure helps lead to the confusion of everyone thinking it is loggable. I believe they are just clicking on the "nearest benchmark" option from the cache page and assuming that has to be it. I tried to post a lengthy explanation on it, to help educate others. I will be now keeping an eye on it to see if the same thing happens with it as your LY2603, after reading your post. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=CP0413

Thanks for taking the time to share the information with us, Dave. Knowing that now, I will be extra sure to include HandHeld 2 coordinates in all of my future geocaching logs (as well as NGS reports) on marks with scaled coordinates. I've been kinda hit-and-miss on doing that.

I agree with Bill. It's really a common sense call.....depending on where the disk is. We have dug several out in yards and pastures, that we always fill back in, to make sure a person or animal (don't forget them) won't fall in. You cause somebody's horse to get injured around here, and you're likely to get shot, quartered, and hung..........and that's if they like you Some that are just barely underneath the grass or leaves, we have left out. At a few sites, after verifying the disk, and covering it back over.....we have left flagging in place at the request of the homeowner......so they would know where the disks were like below: http://img.geocaching.com/benchmark/lg/cde...a66a965191b.jpg

Try this with your legend. Use the thumb stick for highlighting, and push it in to select each option below: find the main menu page>select find setup>select find units>select find position format>select now you can change it from geocaching decimal minutes "hddd mm.mmm" to NGS seconds "hddd mm ss"

WOW! Of course, sometimes it can be just be a case of error submissions, wrong PID's on the report, or something of that sort. Like this one, that had a find and dnf within a few months of each other from mostly likely the same person, according to the initials. I am guilty of forgetting to change the PID once when using the browser back button on submitting recovery reports to the NGS, but luckily Deb caught it and told me. CQ0484 Not near as big as Foxtrot_xrays lighthouse, but not something you can easily overlook or miss......which leads me to believe it was just a clerical error.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but just pass along some information. The Power Squadron entered into what is called a Cooperative Charting Agreement with the National Oceanic Services back in 1963, which has been updated many times up to present day. They may not do benchmarks anymore, but if I understand correctly, they do still help with nautical charts, etc. The more I have read about it, the more I understand why they did benchmark reporting to begin with. This is taken from one of their chapters website. You can also do a websearch on "NOS-USPS Cooperative charting" and get all kind of info. IN THE BEGINNING....... The Cooperative Charting Program began in 1963 with a Memorandum of Agreement between USPS and what is now the National Ocean Service (NOS), National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), US Department of Commerce. This agreement has been updated several times and will continue to serve well into the future with further updates. CIVIC SERVICES CONTRIBUTED BY USPS Cooperative Charting - One of the major civic services of USPS members is Cooperative Charting. This is the contribution of correction data for nautical and aeronautical charts; reports on marine facilities and condition; and status of geodetic survey marks (bench marks) to the National Oceanic Service (NOS). USPS contributes the largest number of chart corrections to NOAA and NOS. They also receive data from the US Navy, US Coast Guard Auxiliary and Civil Air Patrol. Members who do not have boats can participate in this program by reporting on geodetic survey markers that are used in surveying and map reading. They can also turn in reports on marina facilities which change frequently and require regular updating. Back on topic just a hair, I too have found several obvious benchmarks that have been reported as 'not found' by a certain organization. It seems like they didn't put a lot of effort into recoveries some times.

Good find there, Genegene. The NGS database that we use, is made up of many benchmarks from different agencies. No matter what agency set out the benchmark, when they are included in the NGS database, they make up a part of the National Spatial Reference System (NSRS). Each benchmark in the NSRS has a 6 digit permanent identifier (PID), which is unique to that benchmark and is a code the NGS uses to identify it........irregardless of what agency placed the benchmark. It works just like the gcxxxxx code that identifies a geocache. The first two letters of the PID (KU in your case), initially identified what part of the country the benchmark was located in. Zhanna has made a map below that shows the two letter code locations. I have seen another, but can't find it right now. Your find in New York does look to correspond with Zhanna's map. http://surveymarks.planetzhanna.com/graphi...refixMapL48.jpg I have also read that as new benchmarks are included in the NSRS, that they may be assigned a prefix code that doesn't correspond with the map above......either because they have run out of numbers for that prefix or other reasons. Hope this helps, and congratulations on your find. Keep up the good work.

Bill, that was a good catch, where I should have been more clear. Yes, it did have it's own PID....which I should have pointed out. My bad. I did note it in the recovery report for the station CP1647 as well as submit a destroyed report for the actual mark CP1645. Would ya mind checking the links out for these stations and seeing if I did it correct? I made the PID numbers above, links to the gc.com page for them. Thanks so much

The only difference between the two formats is the seconds. The NGS uses seconds (which is each minute broke down into 1/60ths and geocaching uses decimal minutes, (which is each minute broke down into 1/1000ths). Both of these are GPS coordinate formats, but I am thinking you meant the geocaching format we use, which is Degree, minute, decimal minutes. To convert easily, you can take the seconds in the NGS format 19.86 and 27.27 and divide them by 60. 19.86 divided by 60 is .331, so you get N33 24.331 27.27 divided by 60 is .454, so you get W086 52.454 The degrees and minutes are the same for both formats You can work it the other way by taking .331 and multiply by 60, which you get 19.86... to convert decimal minutes that you use for geoaching to degree/minute/seconds format that the NGS uses. (Make sure when you do it this way to include the decimal in front of the 331)

Thanks everyone for the advice. Ya always come thru for me. I didn't think to take pics of the school after it was removed (or actually the space where it used to be), but may be back that way in a week or so to do just that. On another note, I found a triangulation station this morning, and did find it's azimuth mark destroyed, with the disk separated from the setting (which was laying on it's side). I swept the area with a metal detector and did find the actual disk itself buried in the dirt. This should be easy to show Deb that it's destroyed.

Howdy Everyone...long time listener, first time caller. I am needing some advice on how you would log a situation to the NGS. On May 30th, I found benchmark CP1056, which is on the side of the Pioneer High School building. There was a demolition company on site, that was tearing the school down, and trying to save the bricks, etc. The disk was still on the building, but I was informed that the school would be totally demolished within a few weeks. The guys there, gave me the card from the owner of the company, who I tried to contact unsuccessfully. I was wanting him to save the disk, but couldn't get him to answer a call or email. I was back in the area a few weeks later, and everything was gone......disk, building, crew. Anyhow, I am just now getting around to logging it all. I logged it with gc.com as a find (pics included), but am not sure how I should do it with the NGS. I know the consensus seems to be not to log anything as destroyed, since it removes the information from the current database......and I don't actually have the disk to prove my point........but I know without a doubt it's gone. Would ya submit a recovery report as a find for May 30th, and add a note that it was going to be removed/destroyed.......or just log a dnf from June 19th? Thanks for any advice you care to share. P.S. I think I am getting too involved with this because I sure hated to see a disk from 1934 go by the wayside....especially with all the history of that school. http://img.geocaching.com/benchmark/lg/212...e44ecd4c6d5.jpg

This explanation is taken from the FAQ section about benchmarking on gc.com and may expand a little bit more what Tim said above. I found a benchmark, but it isn't in the database. Why? To answer this question, you need to understand a bit about what "the database" is. The database used by Geocaching.com is a copy (from around 2000) of the database that NGS maintains. Although the NGS database has lots of marks in it, it does not have them all. In order for a mark to get into NGS's database, it has to go through a process known as "bluebooking" which ensures the disk meets the minimum requirements to be of geodetic quality (aka the highest quality possible). The NGS is not the only organization that creates and uses benchmarks and other types of control markers. In order for any mark to get "in the database" they must be "bluebooked", which can take a lot of time and effort and is often not done to save money. Remember, even though some marks might not be in the database, they are still highly important, both to businesses and to individual citizens such as your neighbors, so please treat them with respect, while enjoying the thrill of the hunt. We'll try to find other databases and add them to the site as well. If you have access to one of these databases and would like to submit it to Groundspeak, contact us. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/

Is this the one? http://benchmarks.scaredycatfilms.com/index.html EDIT: Mitch got it, while I was typing. Sorry for the double answer.

Hey George, we got ours in the mail today. Thanks a lot. I'll just have to make sure not to go benchmarking in the south part of the state with these white shirts. Don't want to get oil on em.

George, I sent you an email. I'll take 3 if there are any left. Thanks

It's coming on the History Channel right now, so I got to watch it after reading all your posts.

Man, I should have checked these forums today before answering my survey. I also requested an updated benchmark database, but didn't even think of the pq's. Good suggestion AstroD.

Many Thanks George, and everyone else who posted. My benchmark education has been furthered some more.