LSUFan

It appears to be a US Army Corps of Engineers disk, from their Savannah district, that is a property line marker. You might can contact someone there (link below), and see if they have a datasheet available for it, if it is not listed in the NGS database. http://www.sas.usace.army.mil/shexpan/Home.html Also, if you cannot find it in the NGS database (and there are hundreds of thousands of disks not in the database), then you can read what you can do here: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/#notin

Thanks Patty. But if I'm using the search engine correctly (Geocaching & the NGS websites) there are no AZ or RM within 1.4 miles of this Triangulation disk. Would they be that far away, or are they just not in the database? Or am I using the database incorrectly? Doit2it, here is a tutorial on triangulation stations and the disks that go with them. Sometimes the reference marks and azimuth mark may have their own PID (thus separate datasheet). but most of the time they are only referred to on the datasheet for the triangulation station benchmark. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361 If the USGS triangulation station has not been bluebooked (listed in the NGS database), then you are going to have to do some research to find the datasheet on it, and thus see if there were reference mark and azimuth mark disks set with it. You can contact the USGS, and tell them where it is, and they will find the datasheet in their file cabinet to send you a copy. Here is a link on how to contact them: http://gallery.usgs.gov/audios/130 Usually a NGS triangulation station has a name stamped on it (like the property owner, town, etc), which I didn't see in your pic. I don't have enough experience with USGS triangulation stations to know if they use the same kind of guidelines or if a triangle on their disk means the same as the NGS..........or if they had to place a name on it to get bluebooked in the NGS database.

Why don't you just go hang out at the WHYmarking site and leave us alone, then? AZ, don't get baited into a forum argument. I was looking for funny pic to describe the situation and ran across the following. Doesn't it favor something? Back on topic, I am heading over to cast my comments to gc.com

Well, we red-headed step-benchmarkers still have our forum here.

Greywolf, do you have a garmin nuvi by any chance?

The fact that you are asking for others opinion, is a good sign that you know this one has historical importance and care about it's preservation. I would never attempt to recover one like this on my own, strictly for the reasons you have stated. You would need professional help on this one, and that could be very satisfying in itself, seeing if you could secure this required help. I would advise contacting someone at your state surveying board, and definitely dropping DaveD (Dave Doyle) and NGS Surveyor (George Leigh)who both work for the NGS an email, explaining this. I'm sure they can get you in contact with the appropriate professionals who are needed (actually required) for this type of recovery. There is a great article linked somewhere on these forums, where the professionals did a recovery on a jug/bottle....with all the painstaking effort it took to recover it...and replace it as it was. Once you see what it entails, you will see that this kind of recovery is definitely for the pros. Maybe someone can provide the link to it. EDIT: Here is the article: http://www.penryfamily.com/surveying/councilhill.html Bobby

I found one the other day with a honeybun and a Sonic straw in it for swag. I removed both.

Thank you. Are USGS triangulation station markers described in some other database then? My understanding about USGS benchmarks (the ones that weren't bluebooked and entered into the NGS database, which I edited my original post to explain), is that their database is a file cabinet(s). You can contact the USGS directly and they will send you a copy of the one you are interested in. (or that is what one of my friends did)

This reference mark is likely part of a triangulation station set. If the USGS set triangulation stations like the NGS does, then the excellent article by NGS Surveyor (which is the first article pinned at the top of the benchmark forums) may help explain the set of disks used in a triangulation station. Here is the link to it. Hope it helps. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361 If this reference mark is part of a triangulation station, the actual tri-station is the one most likely listed. However, there are lot's of benchmarks not in the NGS database, as explained here with the differences between the NGS and USGS: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/#notin

George (and everyone), do you know if these older aluminum disks would show up on the datasheet as "MARKER: A = ALUMINUM MARKER"? The reason I ask, is I was using GSAK and Bullygoats new marker macro to filter out the ones in Louisiana to see if there were some of these that you are inquiring about anywhere. Everything that came back, was for 1991 and later. They were all NOS.

Rogbarn, if you would like, you can email me the file, and I will put it on our local geocaching website...to provide a host for it, and a link for others to download the complete file from, instead of having to copy/paste the code. It might make it easier that way. I know Kayakbird is an avid excel user. my email is hktire@aol.com Bobby

I didn't ever think I 'needed' to look at photos, until Bullygoat29 posted this macro. Now, I've spent the last hour going over them. I'm about to run out of user data columns.

Mike, I played with the export function a little, and was able to open it up in excel with only my saved columns showing. Here is what I did, after reading the FAQ part about Excel in the GSAK help. 1. I did like Bullygoat instructed and saved my view (and named it). I also saved my database by going to the database tab at top of GSAK, save as (named it) 2. OK, now when I look right above my GSAK columns, the database and view drop-down boxes show the names I gave them in the previous steps. (or make sure to see they do) 3. Now...... I go to file, export, CSV or TXT 4. Here is where I think the problem is happening. When this export window opens.....make sure the "use default" box is unchecked......and then make sure the view is the one you named in step 1 (and not set to default). You should have a drop down box to select which one. Let me know how that goes.

Works perfect for me. I have already about planned my next weekend of marks to search for, thanks to this.

Woo-hoo!! You are THE bull.....well, goat I mean. That is fantastic, and I really liked how you had which user data field to use option, and either the marker code or description to show. It was so simple to use. I added it to the user field 3, and renamed the column 'marker type". I can't tell you how much I appreciate that and how much I will be using it. I owe you (and all of the great people who write these programs and scripts for all of us to use) big time. I am going to probably be up late now, searching around LA, AR, and MS for certain types I have been wanting to find. Thanks again. Bobby

In simple terms, the NGS database will (and does) have many markers from different agencies (including the Corp of Engineers, differing state Dept of Transportations, USGS, and many others) that are part of the National Spatial Reference System (NSRS). Other federal, state, and local government agencies, as well as some private entities maintain thousands of geodetic reference stations that are also part of the NSRS. The National Geodetic Survey maintains the survey data for all these stations, as well as the data for its own stations, in a central database and makes it available for public access. It's this database that you see on gc.com ( and the info provided on gc.com hasn't been updated since around the year 2000 which is when they placed it there). The NGS has certain requirements that must be met for the markers to be included in the NSRS, which is referred to as "bluebooking". There are a lot of markers set out by different agencies that haven't been "bluebooked" and therefore will not be listed in the NGS database. When you find one of these non-bluebooked kind of markers, then you can log it on Waymarking as BasicPoke stated. Hope this helps kinda clear up any confusion. If anyone has the time or interest, there is a ton of great information about the history of the NSRS here: http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/news/features/nov09/directions.html http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/transformations/spatial/welcome.html

The quick way to do that search is to use the filter function in GSAK and do a "Full Text Search" for 'chiseled'. It will list all the marks that are either chiseled marks or have a chiseled mark associated with them. You can narrow down the search by using chiseled circle, chiseled cross, etc. John I forgot to add, if you use the full text search that you can use "SETTING: XX" where XX is the number from the Hippo list for setting types. John Well, that almost makes me feel silly, as it's so simple.....and works great. If you want to make the macro, then I would sure use it. It would let me easily see the marker on each benchmark. You can find the hippo list here that John described: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PC_PROD/DDPROC4.XX/dformat.documentation.html I sure don't want to put you out any, as I can do a full text search as John pointed out....but as I said, I will use it if you go to the trouble. Thanks so much for the help.

I know this is an older thread, and I may have missed what I am about to ask, as I have been pouring over many threads about GSAK. I am using Foxtrots NGS-GPX conversion utility, then GSAK to do all kind of filtering. The macro here by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama works great. Is there also a way (or another macro) to place the monumentation/marker code in a user data field? The reason I ask, is I would like to be able to filter/select for the chiseled squares and chiseled cross marker types. Thanks for any help or nudges to the answer.

I don't know, but maybe this can help. http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/cgs_specpubs/data_rescue_cgs_specpubs.html and this may be the one you are specifically wanting http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/cgs_specpubs/QB275U35no181914.pdf

One of my favorite articles by George is at the link below. You can then go to the Bottles, Pots, and Pans: Marking the Surveys of the U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey and NOAA link there http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/indexhUSCGS.shtml

GSAK can do it. I sent you an email with a gsak screenshot of it.

I found this subject this morning on GSAK, that already has lot of different icons in the 16X16 bmp format. I downloaded it and there was at least 5 different kinds of specific benchmark icons. http://gsak.net/board/index.php?showtopic=7033 Bullygoat, I also updated the tutorial to reflect your idea. I personally favored the benchmark icon with a ? mark (included in the pack above) for scaled benchmarks.....but that's just my preference.

Good deal, so you got it to work correctly with the icons being in the jpeg format? If you don't mind, I will copy them over to the webpage where I have the tutorial residing, for others to get if they may want them for future use. No I didn't save them as jpg's. The dang site converts whatever you upload to that. If you want, PM me your email and I'll send the bmp files for you to use. OK, that works. My email is hktire@aol.com Thanks

Good deal, so you got it to work correctly with the icons being in the jpeg format? If you don't mind, I will copy them over to the webpage where I have the tutorial residing, for others to get if they may want them for future use.

Yes, I did create it somewhat. I think I got it from the Garmin site or a similar one (I will have to see), then adjusted the size to be 16 X 16 bmp image just like the ammo can icon was in the original macro. I put it in the tutorial for others to use (after downloading) Are you running the macro/poi loader for these three separate types of these benchmarks? As I stated, in my experience so far (the experts may know better), that when you run the poi loader, it's going to encode whatever icon you have set in the poi macro (the folder with the four tourguide named files). It would be fairly easy to separate your benchmarks with GSAK into the 3 different types as you said (Adj, Scaled, and Intersection Stations). You could generate a gpx file for each of these three.......then run each separate gpx file thru the macro/poi loader process, just changing the icon to differentiate each one each time you run it. (the part where you changed the geocaching icon to the benchmark icon). Once all three of these different types of gpx files (now converted to pois) are loaded onto your nuvi, they would all show up together as you drive, just letting quickly look at the icon to see what type it is. Let me look back and see where I got the benchmark icon from, and see if I can adapt the other two also. I don't guess I am familiar with the destroyed benchmark icon, as you stated above. Can you point me to where I can see it?