TEAM HARTSOCK

I would agree that the email was nicely worded and I wouldn't be offended or put on the defense with that; however, I might think, "Gee, this person is a little anal." Don't get me wrong, I got 14 hides out there and I love it when I get a decent log. I usually try to leave a good log describing the journey, unless they are quick C & Ds which don't amount to much other than the smiley. Even then I do make sure to leave a "TFTC!" or two. When I get something that is canned, "out caching today, this is our 5th of 12 caches we ahve done. TFTC!", I get disappointed, but don't know if I would or should pursue it any farther. See if their name is in the log book and if it is I don't think you have a write to take away a smiley for an empty log. Where would it end. Someone giving a "thanks for the cache" could be contrived as using a canned message and we should get rid of those too. Who because the log judges? Yes, I understand we are talking blank ones here, but feel it would just move on. In the end each cacher is subject to the owners conditions, but I would think hard before doing someting that drastic as deleting a log.

Enlightened and non-enlightened?

Ball currently makes these freezer cup type things which has a screw on lid. Have a normal cache in one of them and it is holding up just fine. I am now working on an underwater cache that is to go in a stream/pond nearby which is one of these containers that is going to go inside of a 4" PVC pipe which is painted like a log and has some add on stuff that will ensure it doesn't look like a PVC pipe. One end of the pipe will have an end cemented in place with weight at that end to ensure it stays submerged and the other end will have a screw off clean out end to reveal the cache. So far the initial tests have proven promising.

Agree with you about COs need to maintain their stock in their caches. Very good point. However, the thing with caching is that you don't have to like everything you find in a cache. If it is broken, in poor shape, or trash, then by all means get rid of it. But just getting rid of something because of what it is (i.e. the religious stuff you aren't a fan of) isn't your right at all. Maybe someone doesn't like matchbox cars; should they be able to toss them at every cache they find them? No one is forced to take anything from a cache whatsoever, only requirement we have is to sign log and rehid as good or better as we found it. No one should get to play "cache police" and decide if a certain type of item should be in the cache. (aside from those items that Groundspeak already asks not to be placed. knives, food, adult items...etc.)

I completely understand and agree. It is easy to walk away from a cache that you need scuba gear for because you know ahead of time. You don't always know this about these types of hides so it isn't as easy to walk away since it isn't always clear that you need to walk away. Fugedabowdid. What would make it difficult? You don't feel it's a safe situation once you get to GZ, you walk away. Get there, get out look around..."Oh, it's not in the bush...not behind that pipe over here...I guess it could possibly be that plate cover on the electrical box..." At that point you have a choice, try to move the plate or walk away. You have to judge for yourself and if you don't feel that it is safe, then don't do it. The only thing that would make it difficult is your own greed for not wanting to have a DNF and if that drives you then ultimately it isn't going to matter if it is something electrical or some other situation, you are going to put yourself at risk no matter what. All in all, it should be up to individual cachers, no one makes us search in certain areas for certain things...

agree with earlier cacher who states that most can be determined by a little tug or push. Most of the fake covers I have found have always been magnetic. All you need to do is give them a little bump with your fingernail and see if it moves. Those caches which would require screws to be removed at an electircal place would not be appropiate, but then again, Ithink that comes down to common sense and judgement. Plus, if you don't feel something might not be safe, then walk away. There are other caches and you don't need to have that one.

That "FTF" feeling...well, its like... putting on that fresh pair of underwear right out of the dryer while they are still warm... It's like being first in taking a bath in a family of 8 that shares their bathwater... It's like cracking open that ice cold Pepsi and smelling the CO2 as it escapes bringing with it the smell.... It's like that first kiss.... It's like that feeling when you look out and see a perfect winters day with everything in white covered by freshly fallen snow... It's a lust that once you get a taste of, you are never the same again. many a young man have lost themselves to the fever of the FTF.

This begs the question if the type of granola bar adds or detracts from whether it was an enjoyable hunt? You munching on one of those dry hard honey & oat type ones, or those new soft ones with the chocolate drizzled all over them? I personally like the harder dry ones. I have been to several caches numerous times, sometimes finally finding, other times walking away disgusted. Just this past week there was a mirco hanging from a pine in a park nearby. I was third one to log a DNF and it took days before someone found it. That was a case where there was alot ALOT of other hides in rotting logs and other areas which actually would have supported a nice ammo can, but the challenge was different. And eventhough I went back and found it on the second try, I would have still gone back many more times till I found it as long as the cache owner assured me it was there or that others kept posting smileys. That is part of the fun and challenge.

AGAIN.... IF YOU DON"T KNOW EVEN THE BASIC OF THINGS CONCERNING IT.... you have no reason to be shooting off your mouth.

alot of people on this thread look stupid, not just the side you point to. The guy had his chance. The guy blew it. Like Keystone said it doesn't happen on a one infraction basis. It is a history of it. I can assure you of something though; it will never happen now...not in this way. This thread has bascially done the exact opposite of what you intended it to do. It has made his name stick WAY OUT to newer people like myself who didn't know a trainlove from a Keystone. Now, every time I hear that name, it is going to be connect with strife and confusion. Your thread has basically tarnished anything else that is left. Let it go, it isn't you that is being attacked or banned. There was no injustice to you. There was none to him...none of us own the forum boards. They are here for our public use, but there is someone who truly does own them and we are subject to their rules. It is wasted time to have this nonsense crap of a thread. I just wished it would be closed and done with forever. Bell Dingers, let the man fight his own battles; in what happen, you are nothing...you aren't even a bit player in what went down and basically you should keep your nose out of it. We all should. Let this thread die. Useless.....

How about the "LOCKED AND FORGOTTEN" forum?

So he had a WAAS fix that helped alot of people....what does that warrent being unbanned for something else he did? I don't see the world saying, "oh that's okay that this person over here did something unexcusable but because they helped alot of other people at one time, we just let it pass." I don't know a thing about the situation, but know it doesn't sound right at all. From all the forums I have experienced, if he would contact TPTB and apologize, explained that he learned his lesson, and ask to be given another chance; he would probably get it. This thread smacks of a trollish nature that is meant to stir something up. So on that grounds, I say leave him banned and ban anyone from this point on that mentions his name.

If only we had stricter rules concerning threads and the contents thereof. That way the mods could have closed this thread 4 pages ago... Really, this thread makes us look like a bunch of whiney babies to any noob who stumbles across them. Hopefully the caching community as a whole is not judge by the childishness of either side of this "debate." Either way it doesn't matter....everyone let it go...

Does it even matter any more? Everyone has had thier say on this. Some believe, some don't. Some are for, some are against. Some like peanut butter, some like chocolate. Can't we just all give it a rest? Let them have their claim, either way if it is true or if it isn't, it doesn't matter to those who don't care. Over all, the beating of the dead horse just gets blood on everyone and makes for a very ugly conversation on the forums....

I don't think that you fully understand the nature of these caches. I once did a series of what I think were similar caches. Every mile (every section line) there was a benchmark. By every benchmark, there was a short fencepost with a small sign indicating that there was a benchmark there. These fenceposts were at most, 20 feet from the shoulder of the road. At the base of every one of those fenceposts was a film cannister. Inside every film cannister was a log. Getting the picture yet? The challenge here is NOT finding the greatest number of well hidden caches. The challenge here is being able to move quickly, stay awake, and not throw up. If you go back to the post in which I was referring to, you'll see the person makes a comment that a cacher who has over 10,000 finds has a sort of six sense where to find them and therefore is alot quicker than the guy with a couple hundred. As I stated, granted that is kinda of true in some ways, but at the same time, they need to get to all of those places. I got the picture long before you mentioned it; but even in that case, a cacher who has 10,000 finds doesn't matter because the way you state it, my 10 year old daughter should be able to find the hides as you have listed it. It the challenge is to be able to move quickly, stay awake and not throw up then that isn't geocaching, that's describes a bunch of college parties I was a part of. I am not knocking them for what they did. Sounds like fun to me, but whether you are for them or against them everyone needs to realize that it is not that big of deal to waste time and breath on the forums arguing about it. Pat them on the back, say good job, and if you don't like it, well then walk away. Let them have their celebration that truly isn't hurting anyone. I haven't had someone call me and tell me that I am less of a cacher because of what this group did. All in all it doesn't affect anyone except for them and I am glad they had fun doing it because that is what caching is supposed to be all about.

I have a HCx and this was the very first thing that popped into my mind when wanting to use the cache names instead of the GC #.

In my picture of this event, the car never gets turned off... Congrats on a great achievement... I wonder, did you dream about caching when you finally got to sleep? That is correct.... car never gets shut off (except at gas station). There was a point where one of us was freaking out, because they were so tired, that they thought they were asleep and dreaming..... dreaming about being in a car at night on a dirt road, speedcaching.....and then they opened their eyes and they were!

If you were driving at 60mph, your drive time alone would be 7.85 hours all by itself (assuming the speed limit was 60mph in every instance. That would only leave 16.15 hours of actual caching which would equate to 2.22 minutes of searching (average) per cache (adding the DNFs in). The math is WAY off because there would be vehicle dismounting and remounting times with 4 people (sometimes the driver) and acceleration/deceleration variables. Not to mention at least one stop for gas assuming zero potty breaks.... Once all the variables are guessed out, that would be about 45-60 seconds per cache for locating and signing. Call me a skeptic..... Have you ever caches with a 10,000+ cache finding cacher? I doubt you have. If you have you would know that they can see a cache hiding spot from 1000 feet. I have cached with one and she was spotting and pointing out where the cache was hidden before I had put my GPS into search mode. With four such cachers in the car I would guess that they spent less than 30 seconds actually finding the cache. It would take them longer to get the log out and back in to the plastic baggie. No offense, but the first statement there about the 10,000+ cacher is sorta....well...nonsense. Yes, they are going to be more experience, but they still have to get to GZ. You can't tell me that someone can super guess the GPS when signal bounce is going on unless you are in a flat field and there is one tree or lamppost in that 1000 foot area you mentioined. Sure you walk up to a situation that is going to be obvios and they will be the first ones who gets it, but if I take you into the woods around here or down the city block, no one is going to say at 500 feet out, "oh it is in a hollow stump behind that tree". The point the original guy was making is that it takes a little time to actually find the cache. And no matter if you are Supercacherman with X-ray vision, it is going to take some time. If they were all walk right up to it and log it, then while it would be a fun night of running with friends and having fun, there wouldn't be a real challenge in it. If the OP did this, and I have no reason to say they didn't other than it seems impossible with the timing, then great to them. Sounds like they had fun! If not, then big deal. Like someone said, Guiness doesn't have the exclusive right to claim world records and in the long run, a world record claim doesn't mean a hill of beans. So, they had a night of fun and did something impressive. My hat is off to you! But just like I love to chew gum, but still don't feel a need to try to beat the guy/gal who chewed one stick of gum the longest just so they can claim it. I don't feel the need to best a possible record as this one. My choice. If someone out there feels they need to beat this to prove something to themselves or others, then ago go for it. I will stick to my variety of caches and keep those ones that require a couple mile hike enjoying the journey as we say.

LOL. i have passed up other jars of money so others can enjoy it!!

Please understand, I do not mean to be critical, but that statement really jumped out at me. I have worked for The Salvation Army for 18 years, and there is nothing that I have ever seen in a cache, nor anything that is in you curio case that should ever be considered to be donated to charity. In our case, the items that are donated to us are put into our thrift stores. We would never, ever, take a chance that a child in our stores could come across any of the small, (chocking hazard) toys, that are typically found in a Geocache. When these items are donated, they go straight into the dumpster. We then have to haul it to the dump and are charged by the county for our efforts. This takes away from our efforts to help those that are truly in need. It is interesting that you state that because I noticed something the other day when I went to the Salvation Army Store in Altoona, Pa. Salvation Army stores are rare around here, at least as far as I have seen. Altoona is the only one that I know of, I think Lewistown might have one that is open at certain times, but that is in the basement of the meeting building (I think) and not a seperate store like the Altoona one. But what I noticed is that in the toy section everything was individually bagged and hanging on hooks. At Goodwill, everything is placed on shelves. The Salvation Army's stock looked alot nicer and I assume would be more presentable as far as it being cleaned and properly cared for before going out to the floor. And the selection was not as much, assuming that comes from the policy that you stated above. However, there were games and such that would pose just as much as of a choking hazzard as any little McToy would but that could come down to a tit for tat thing. One thing that did really stick out to me was the prices. Things there at the Salvation army seemed to be priced much higher than what Goodwill does. Probably to help cover the overcost of what you stated. Now I am not being smart, but if the purpose of these two stores is to make a profit to help people in need and to provide a product where people who don't have much can afford things, then the issue you mentioned actually seems to be counter productive to that mission. Personally, if the Salvation Army doesn't want to deal with those items then instead of throwing them out, why not take them over to your Goodwill drop off station, let them deal with it, and at the very least those items will be used to help someone instead of ending up in a landfill. Those people who donated those items will have the fulfillment of thier desire to help someone instead of it going to a landfill. (and before anyone says anything, yes, I realize some people will use the donation and drop off points to get rid of junk instead of properly doing it themselves.) All in all, both groups do alot to help others and I am glad for both of them. I take no offense to your comment above and feel that both groups serve a purpose in what they do. Thanks for being a part of an organization that is dedicated to reaching out and helping others.

Just curious what you do with the swag you get... I know a few people who will drop it off at other caches, some that give it to kids, others who donate it to Goodwill/Salvation Army. I had just thrown it into an ammo box till tonight. My wife went out with one of her friends and I was sitting here thinking about all that swag and the fact that we have an old hutch out in the shed with stuff we were going to yardsale. It is an antique and not in the best shape, but not terrible. She doesn't like it so it was removed from the living room when we got married. Well, I got to thinking, wouldn't the swag (along with some geocoins and other special caching items) look awesome in that old hutch if I was to drag it out of the shed and stick it in the office we share (on my side of course.) I have a light to add to the inside of it so it could be properly displayed and as I kept thinking about it, I found myself down at the shed, forcing the rusty lock open and carrying this up here in a rain storm. Couldn't ask any of the kids for help for fear that there might be quick text messages sent her way alerting her of what I was doing. Well, I still have yet to add the light, but I think it is looking pretty darn nice. Right now I got normal sway on the top shelf (the very top of the hutch has my cache bag and other stuff thrown up there for now, that will be changed shortly to help lessen the shock when she gets home. Should probably clean the dirt off of that too.). On the middle shelf I have a small Lock n Lock with sig items I have collected. Wooden personal sig coins, some plastic ones, other little things made in molds. Basically the stuff that people leave behind that makes it a more personal thing. On the bottom shelf, I have 4 empty ammo cans, a few other Lock n Locks and a shoe box full of swag to trade in caches. I know I have more "captured" or "found" swag somewhere....should be another ammo box of it, but not sure where I have that right now. Now I have to figure out how I want to put the geocoin and pathtag collection in there... I am actually enjoying it. Does anyone else display their swag???

What happens if you hook it to the computer using the usb cable? Does it have power then through the external USB port? Does it stay on then?

While at camp in July, I got bored and put out a number of caches. When I got home, I found that one of those wouldn't be approved due to it being located at a bridge of a State Route. Didn't know that policy was in place, so it was finally archived a little while ago, eventhough it wasn't active. Yesterday, I finally got back to the area for a picnic (I am down there often, but for the last few months things have kept me away. I am able to routinely maintence all my caches, but wasn't able to get to this area to pull the unapproved one.) So I stopped and retrieved the cache. I suspect that many times people hide caches, and for one reason or another might not have them approved and they just don't bother to go retrieve them. After all, the cache in the original posting was said to have been placed in December of 08. I have had some caches take awhile to be approved, but 9 months is a pretty long time...

I GOT MY FIRST HIT THE OTHER DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's been on there since about Christmas time and finally, someone logged it. I was at the kid's school for a meeting a few days before school was to begin. The one teacher there does alot of caching and when I got home that day, it was finally logged. I about fell off the chair. I ran out to tell my wife and she gave me that look like she was happy for me, but didn't see the big picture of it all. lol.

should still have the one marked COPY and that number is the same as the original one.