Mike & Jess

Each is tethered by high test fishing line. There's no real chance of them falling in unless someone accidentally drops the bottom half in while opening it. I hope most are smart enough to open it away from the sewer. Never under estimate the intelligents of the general public.... Still a very neat theme and a great find. I suspect you'll get a few DNFs (which means it's a good hide).

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/AFFM/2ColumnSubPage/STDPROD_087226.html Ontario's Rules and Laws Controlling the Use of Fire http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/AFFM/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_165444.html A list of the Fire Management Headquarters: http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/AFFM/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_165796.html There was a very recent evacuation of campers from the east side of Algonquin Park due to wildfire concerns. Other areas in Ontario saw residents being evacuated. My understanding is that if an area is of concern, then the MNR will post a "restricted travel" notice there. B. I understand the system in place if there is a current fire threat. From what I got from the OP, the actions taken there was after the fact.

Interesting how they handle fire damage zones down there. We had a bunch of large fires this summer in Northern Ontario. I don't think our Ministry of Natural Resources has a policy like down there. I will however be looking into it and letting our locals know if there is a similar policy.

Proof of permission would be a tough go in many areas. In the Northern Part of Ontario, our geocaching play ground is huge. There are so many amazing places yet to be discovered and shared with other cachers. The kicker is, a lot of this natural forest is owned by individuals, mining companies, is crown land, or is crown land leased to a company. In and around my home town, most forest area is owned by the mining companies. Most of it has been owned for many, many years, but never touched. In the case of the forest behind my friend's property, it was originally owned by a defunct lumber company, and has gone through a few number companies (probably mining). No one has touched the forest in 50+ years with the exception of the network of trails running through it. The amount of effort required to track down a living person who works for company 975401 (made up number btw), would make this sport impossible locally. I have some personal experience with this as I had a cache achieved because a road ~20-30yrds south of my cache had a sign stating no trespassing. I gave up trying to find known proof that the cemetery at the end of the road was the private property, and that the road crossed city property. (I also bushwhacked my way from the hwy to the cache location, so no trespassing was required.) My point is, of the ~50+ caches I have placed (some archived now), I can count on one hand how many I can 100% prove is permission approved. My lamp post caches and bus sign caches would all be invalid. With my recent relocation to a small town, and now involvement with it's tourism and what not, I should be able to better that number as I'll be introducing geocaching to this quiet cottege town.

Sweet looking caches. Definately sometime well spent making those look good. I thought about doing similar caches (not painted characters however). My only concern is people dropping them into the sewer when retreiving them or replacing them. I've lost many nanos because people dropped them then couldn't find them.

I didn't want to have to quote myself, but I couldn't figure out how to edit this post to update the address. The Northern Ontario Geocachers site and forum was moved to it's own domain a year or more ago. The corrected address is http://NorthernOntarioGeocachers.com, with the forum found at http://forum.NorthernOntarioGeocachers.com.

So we now have a Registered Association (OGA), an established organized group (NOG), and now a non-registered association group. Might be a bit much, no?

Its unfortunate but the cacher involved with the two incidents (mentioned in both threads) as continued going on. I'm starting to wonder if there is more to their issues then the prizes. Originally I thought it was simply the prizes. I don't think I'll host another game type event with prizes.

I have a bit of a concern with the system automatically marking TBs as missing should a cache get achieved. If the cache goes missing, this would work. If the cache is achieved for other reasons such as a reviewer achieved because of broken rules/complaints or other reasons, the TB may still be alive and well, just not at the posted coordinates. I did have a cache archieved because someone complained to the reviewer it was on private property (it wasn't, but that isn't the point). This cache did have a trackable in it when I recovered it. The coin was moved along, but could have been lost if such an automated system existed. I would however like to see easier options as a cache owner to make a trackable as not in my cache. I do remember there being an option, but for the life of me, I can't remember how or where to do so.

This thread kind of went sideways from what I had originally intended. I guess I should have left more details out. I did not want to target the mishap this past weekend. I fully agree that it was a mistake on the host's behalf and I (along with most people) would have been somewhat upset. I suspect I might have handled things a bit differently, but who knows. I don't know all the happenings at this specific event as I was pre-occupied with my kids. I can not say what efforts where made to resolve this issue, or if any had been done at all. My rant was more regarding what happen after the fact (2 hours or so). I became apparent that some folks had some real issues surrounding prizes at events.

This is a bit of a continuation of one of my earlier threads, but now I am looking for suggestions. I also do not want the events of the other thread overshadowing this thread. What I am looking for are suggestions or solutions as to how to manage event prizes in a manner that will eliminate or minimize the backlash from some adult cachers. Unfortunately ,excluding those cachers isn’t much of an option. Not having prizes is not a solution, and here is why; My wife and I are active cachers (been a slow year this year), host a number of events (meet and greets as well as full day game events), are heavily involved in our local geocaching community (Northern Ontario Geocachers) and are geocaching vendors. Prizes at game events has become kind of a standard. I'm not sure if this is a localized thing, or just the direction geocaching has taken. As geocachers (simple event participants), I very much enjoy the bragging rights among my peers (we keep the competitiveness within a small group, and not pick on the new cachers). As a host, seeing the kids pick their prizes makes the couple dollars I spent worth it (especially when a child gets closest to the pin with a budget gps, while dad gets furthest on his high end unit). As a vendor, it's giving back to the geocaching community. In some cases, our store provided donations are paid for out of our own personal pockets (not a high profit industry, don’t quit your day job). Now, it doesn't happen often, but I have seen the backlash from adults over prize at a couple events (one or two cases being events we hosted, others events we attended as participants or vendors). Myself personally, I would love for the prizes to be geared towards the kids only. Us adults really don't need anything more than bragging rights. As an event host, this is not an issue, keep all prizes at or below a monetary value, and geared towards kids. As a vendor, this doesn't work out so well as no matter what we offer, it’ll be non-age specific. My biggest thorn (and the reason for this thread) is as a result of a GPS unit we gave out as a prize last year. The Manufacture donated the GeoMate jr. (starter kit) and my wife and I personally covered the shipping (duty, etc). We decided to give it out as a door prize instead of being the main prize for the event games. From my perspective, luck of the draw was the fairest option considering some attendees had not participated in the lead up challenges that would have made them eligible for the prize. I will leave out any further details as I don’t want to start anything and this thread isn’t about this specific event. Unless I can come up with a bullet proof way of giving out a large prize like that (and another manufacture), I won't do it again. Anyway, any suggestions on ways to do prizes (as they won't go away), and reduce the potential for backlash? I know you can’t please everyone, anything that can reduce the problem would be great.

My thoughts exactly.

What I meant by "top event cachers" was best poker hand, closest to the pin, etc. There has also been some events where numbered tickets where in the caches, which where pulled from a hat and prizes awarded accordingly. It was my understanding (I wasn't involved with this as I was chasing my two boys around who are 1 and 3yrs old), the host messed up, and offered some sort of solution. More happen outside the gc event page.

I come to question why we insist on having prizes at events. At the first event I attended (5 or 6 years ago), it was understood by us adults that the prizes for the various games was mostly for the kids, the bragging rights was for us adults. Fast forward to present day... We had a minor scheduling mishap this past weekend, and the fur started flying (before we even got home from the event) because a couple attendees didn't get to participate in the poker hand. I've personally received nasty e-mails because people felt cheated out of some prize or another (gave the BIG donated prize as a door prize instead of to the top event cacher). It's not even the kids complaining, it's the adults. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to these game filled events for the prizes. Going forward, if I am to host any more game filled events, I will not be doing prizes. Maybe a box of frozen treats at the end and some bragging rights, but that's it. Anyone else do game events (poker run, closest to the pin, etc) without prizes? I'm sorry if this thread appears to be more of a rant then a question. I'm a little frustrated that something so trivial has soured these types of events for me.

I thought I would pipe up on this as I didn't see one of the issues/points we are experiencing here with the cache clean ups going on. Over the past month or so, we have had a large number of older, ownerless caches go on the hit list and many archived. Some, which may have been a great location when they where placed back in the early 2000's, is no long a good location. One of the issues we do have in this area is still a low cache density. We're <500 caches within a 50km radius of town (POP ~135,000). Through a lot of work by the local community, these numbers are climbing, but still pretty slowly. Long story short, we don't have a lot of caches that we can afford to lose. Myself and a number of others in the area have repaired/replaced caches that NM and had no owner. We have also (painfully), sat and watched a few old caches get archived because it was their time to go (mostly due to bad location for a cache today). When considering if a cache is worth saving, consider it's own value, then consider if the local area can afford a few caches archived.

Not to hijack this thread, but I have been reasonably pleased with the clean up the reviewers have done in our area. The reviewers have given the COs and/or the local caching community ample time to repair worth caches that have been listed as NM. I have personally repaired a few historical caches that are well worth saving. On the lines of the title of this thread however.... I would really like to see an even governing of events across the various regions. I am at the point now that I will never host, or attempt to host a GC event again. I have two coming up, then that is it. What has my blood boiling is this; In one region, a self proclaimed mega event (first time they've hosted this event) is allowed to brake many of the rules (event posted 6+ months ahead of date, very commercial promotion, etc). In our region, we had two events, both organized as part of a local town festival (similar to the self proclaimed mega) and both denied (on the grounds it was promoting the local festival, which it was part of). The last of the two regional events was mine. The reviewer (I am not going to name names or GC codes, as good as that would make me feel) for this event dragged things out to the point that it was now within the 14 days before the event (13 if I remember right) and was automatically archived. Anyway, I could go on and on, but I think that events should really be looked at. Our local reviewers have been fairly strict, but at least consistent with it.

Yup, I'm in the same mindset with this one. The title thing I sorta get though. As for the organized cache hunt thing, that's a whole other discussion. There are definitely grey areas and local interpretations when it comes to the guidelines. I'm also in the mind set that an email warning / reviewer's note with a timeout would be a little less grating than a mass disabling ... particularly when it comes to something as silly as adding/removing text to a web page. Why write off a batch of caches just before a weekend that are perfectly findable over semantics. Give the CO a week or so to act then disable if needed IMHO. Definately agree with this post. I think the orgainized hunt thing should be better outlined. I'd like to see caches (registered and non) for an event be OKed, but events specifically geared towards gathering a group of cachers to find specific caches be discouraged.

I really wanted to reply to this thread, but am struggling with not going full steam into a rant. I fully agree, and appreciate the effords of keeping the commercial side of things out of sight. For the most part, I can not see a reason to name businesses in normal cache titles and or descriptions. I do however believe that it would be nice to be able to mention charaties or local social events that may be involved, or associated with a GC event. This should however, be at the discression of the reviewers as some charaties and events are very commercial based. I do however believe the regulation of events should be more evenly governed. Our local reviewers have been very strict with posted events (most cases justified), where other regions have bent the rules.

Sounds like someone has kids. I never would have considered this myself. Since having kids, even my summer toy car has a package of wipes tucked away just in case.

I own the Pentax WG-1 (non-GPS as it wasn't available). Love the camera and it has been proven to be solid. I'll see if I can answer your questions fully How is the quality of the picture? The picture quality is pretty good. It has loads of shooting presets, most of which I haven't had a chance to play with. How is the quality of the video? Took this video hours after picking up the camera. Because I saved ~$50 by not getting the GPS model, I picked up a suction cup mount which in combination with this camera, is amazing. This video was taken while doing up to 80kmph and you can still see the cracks in the road as we where going. It's totally raw off the camera. How is the quality of the build? The case is pretty rugged and they say it'll take the abuse. I have had it strapped to the mtn bike, front of the van, suction cupped to the top deck and bottom of my kayak (hit the ground with it attached to the kayak). While out caching with my young boys, it is normally clipped to my belt or the chest strap of the backpack, so it's always getting banged around. No issues at all. How does the pics compare to that of a standard digital camera? Comparing it to a standard P&S camera, it is as good or better (newer CMOS chip). My DSLR is still better, but is not suited for the shooting this camera will do for me. How the speed of the camera? startup? in between pictures etc? Start up is very fast. It is about as fast as my DSLR. I think it is about a 1 second start up. Shooting is pretty quick, specially for a P&S. The preset autofocus mode can be a bit of a pain as it goes looking for something to focus on. Being a major SLR user with a single focus point always being used, I found this to be a pain, but was easily fixed by setting it to single focus. What are the Pros? Bullet proof and at ~$350CND, cheaper then replacing cheapy P&S cameras. Also super convenient as it can be clipped anywhere with no concerns. For a P&S, start up is super fast and the video is really good (HD). What the Cons? A shutter bug on a weekend warrior trip may want to bring a second battery. I take a lot of photos so it may be more me then a camera fault. The HD video is also huge (which is not really a fault of the camera).

I was going to multi-reply but I figured this would be cleaner. Back in December, I had been out on the Canadian East coast. Did 20-30 caches out there and was discussed with the quality of the caches. I accepted that some would be damp/wet as it had been raining for over a month out that way, but it was the quality and choice of containers. I was finding Kinder Suprise egg caches, excel gum containers (the hard plastic container) and my favorite, a pringles container. I posted on this forum my complaint about the quality of caches in the area and oh did I start up a storm (which was partially the intent). I did start discussions about cache quality and maintenance which was what I was looking for. The only conclusion I have been able to come to after this caching run is this; - If the cache is damaged, place a NM log and send the CO a quick note with as much info as they may need to make it right (ie container cracked, or log wet, but container is ok...) - If you are not the first in a long line of NM logs, it may be time for a NA log - If the cache is trash, and should be cito, go straight to NA. - If the cache needs maintenance, and you have the means to repair it (i.e have a spare log book,etc) go for it and post up a note stating it was repaired. (I only do this on occation where it is worth while) (should be considered on a case per case basis) One of the arguments I have heard while ranting about poor cache quality was the area in question doesn't have the $$ available for cachers to place expensive caches. I do not agree with this, and here is why; - Only play the game within you means. Can't afford to place caches, hunt for them only. - The average cost of the last 25+ caches I placed this year was ~$3-$4. This included either a dollar store or name brand L&L (depending on when they go on sale), dollar store memopad logbook (4pack for $1), ziplock sandwich bag, and dollar store or most cases, thrift store swag (a bag of small toys for $3-$5) I guess my post is a bit of a rant as well.

That definately has nothing to do with being an accountant.

Personally, I don't think it is as much a Smart Phone cacher vs. non Smart Phone cacher issue. The issue is more of grabbing trackables while on the road and placing them right away without logging them. Prior to us using smart phones (my wife just got hers, and mine only had email until recently) if we grabbed a TB, we would wait until we had internet access and logged it as picked up before placing it again. While on the road, this meant a quick stop at a McDonalds or a coffee shop with free wifi (which is really easy to find these days). From what I can see here, the lesson learned is; If you find a TB in a cache and Can't log it right away, sit on it until you get internet access, or leave it there, and simply mark it as discovered. It'll show up under your profile either way. I guess my original post was more of a rant then a question. As of yet, I can't really think of anything else that I/we (wife and I) could have done to make this smoother.

You didn't log it through in order of the caches it visited? (Sorry, I'm into backlogging methods ) The order of events where as follows; Wife marked it as grabbed from somewhere else (2011/07/10 ~2:30PM) via BlackBerry I dipped it into one of my caches (Tunnel Vision)I checked right after unloading the van (2011/07/10 ~9:45PM) I realized it hadn't been dipped into cache we aquired it from, so dipped it there (2011/07/10 ~9:55PM) TB millage and log order messed up. Adjusted TB dip date at Tunnel Vision (on the TB log) to be 2011/07/11. Millage and log order looks good (2011/07/10 ~10:00PM) Received not so friendly email (2011/07/11 ~12:23AM)

Althought it is nice to put a face to the name, knowing who a reviewer is, is really not nessessary. It is however helpful to have a rough idea of their geographical location. If you are working with a reviewer on a publication, It would be nice to know how much info about the area you really need to provide. If they are say from Toronto, and the publication is in Sudbury, you may need to provide a lot more info, supporting documentation, and/or photos to help the reviewer understand the area and other issues.