kayakbird

All, A rendezvous with friend researching a book based in Montana's Big Open north of the Missouri River gave me a reason to return to MORC 3 Canyons and MORC 5 Pines this week. Some how a L/L blunder has crept into the data sheet for 3 Canyon AZ [SQ0270]; https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=SQ0270 and I believe that the following call for 5 Pines was an office typo and should be deleted: SQ0516'MONUMENT IS 5 IN IRON PIPE OF MO. R.C. WHICH HAS BEEN CONCRETED SQ0516'AND REPAIRED. https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=sq0516

Bill, The above is what I submitted to Dave Doyle in a 'greater than 6 seconds off tabulation; and what I recovered it as. Later on I would include my HH2 in the remarks. MEL

This one is still at the erroneous location. Is there a direct contact person at NGS that would correct this? kayakbird

ftp://ftp.ngs.noaa.gov/pub/DS_ARCHIVE/BETA_PRODUCTS/ The Snowdog, I recently downloaded a zipped Utah shapefile from the above link into an Excel file. Over 7000 marks with data out to column BA (more than twice the columns in my 2009 download). kayakbird

terratin, If you have Excel capabilities I could send you a file that I built from GSAK several years ago - of course sort-able to county, setting date. You could check selected PIDs against the Benchmark page and hand enter them into your GPS. It would be tedious but I'm guess that you will have 10 hours or so on a aircraft. Contact me off forum in the next day or two if you are interested. Presently on a birding trip and waiting out a snowstorm near PX0280 - same name as one of my early on mentors in this game. kayakbird

Terratin, Have you tried this National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer? Give it a city or town name and zoom in. At some point 'View List' and enter the PID into the Geocaching Benchmark Hunting page. If you want older one read up on the nomenclature conventions - basically A 1 to Z 1 would be the first elevation Bench Mark string in the state of Utah. I would like to see a photo of LO0583, X 1; and others in that 1906 string that have been recently logged as found. kayakbird

All, If you wander widely you need to be aware of this sentence in the below link: ' Think again! Federal law prohibits the possession and use of metal detectors on federal property.' The calls and distances (several times out the reciprocal bearing) generally worked. kayakbird https://www.nps.gov/fosm/learn/management/metal-detecting.htm

Michaelcycle, Interesting mix of marks in this county, but I could not find your GLO among the eight in the Excel file I got with GSAK several years ago. The 36 CGS+SS [one of which is a triangulation station) along with 13 rivets and a few IBC's might make it my snowbird destination next year. The sound of the wind howling across the center of Montana makes me wish that I was there right now. kayakbird

All, Just added a note to the below linked Geolog. My HH2 numbers are in a permanent Excel file that I would copy/paste into the NGS recovery format. Haven't done the math in decimal degrees, but don't see where the degrees, minutes and seconds could have been transposed into a typo. MEL https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=SQ0270

Clearing House - NGS Priority SQ0270: I hope that this was not my blunder when I recovered it back in 2009, but I do not have access to my Excel 'recovered file ' right now. MEL Priority Map Pin for CANYON AZ: SQ0270* NAD 83(1986) POSITION- 47 36 03.2 (N) 107 11 59.5 (W) HD_HELD2 MORC CANYON as Recovered 2 October 2009 SQ0271* NAD 83(1992) POSITION- 47 42 26.99044(N) 107 11 28.48405(W) ADJUSTED SQ0271' SQ0271'AZIMUTH MARK IS 0.7 MILE NORTHWEST OF THE STATION, 10 FEET SQ0271'SOUTHWEST OF A TRACK ROAD, AND 4 FEET NORTHEAST OF A WITNESS SQ0271'POST. IT IS A STANDARD AZIMUTH MARK DISK SET IN THE TOP OF SQ0271'A 12-INCH SQUARE CONCRETE POST. THE MARK PROJECTS 4 INCHES, SQ0271'AND THE DISK IS STAMPED CANYON MORC 1948.

All, Heavy on the 'clearing house'! It is easy to pull up a cache's prior body of work to evaluate a 'found' log and weed out any questionable ones. I was thinking of those such as 2OF's who's reports are as good as any Goldie Oldie. Mike

Bill93 & All, I know that there are some Geocachers that do not make an official NGS 'recovery' for the 'finds' that they log in the 'Benchmark Hunting' site. Maybe this forum could act at a collection/clearing house location for those marks. kayakbird

"HB0752'PUBLIC SCHOOL, AT THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE SCHOOL GROUNDS, 6.5 FEET EAST HB0752'OF THE EAST SIDE OF A WALK LEADING TO THE MAIN ENTRANCE, ..." Wondering if the trees bordering the sidewalk to the school were saplings when the mark was set? kayakbird https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/bb4cee84-2b99-475e-8762-c6a3db002229.jpg

A six foot tall person can fairly reliable count steps that are a yard (+/-) long. A bit harder to get that extra 3.37 inches and tally meters. Being slightly height disadvantaged, my pace stick [as I was trained to use a bunch of years ago by the Forest Service] is now one Smoot (+/-) long. MEL

Hi All, Bill touched on 'historical' and a good discussion along those lines is something we have not had here for awhile and I miss them. I am just about back to Montana after a six week swing (some birding, but mostly kayaking) through a fairly large area where I have bench marked. Re-did exactly one that I had blundered and NGS recovered as 'Not Found' several years ago. If you will indulge me I will touch on some of the 'historical' memories that filtered by along with 3000 miles or so: 1] Fur trapping rendezvous & Ashley's further-est down steam travel on the Green River. 2] Oregon Trail over the pass discovered by the above gentleman. 3] Gazed at high points and river valleys that became scientifically known as a result of the four great western surveys in the 1860's & 70's - the result of one being instrumental in the formation of Yellowstone National Park. And, Yes, I still think that somewhere there is permanent evidence of occupation by 'Kings 40th'! 4] Had a couple of crossings on a multi-state, multi-year level line that was found to have a sizable blunder when finished. Started with chiseled squares in the top of native stone posts and ended with 'modern' brass caps in concrete settings. See Special Publication #18 for the description and location of many of these bench marks. 5] Was again amazed at the density of vertical control points (1 or more per mile) in portions of central west Mohave County, Arizona; and the enduring quality of the concrete in a couple of no longer used structures associated with those level lines. 6] Did not travel in either Meagher County, Montana or Albany County, Wyoming, but again wondered why those two areas have several of the short lived depression area "& State Survey" marks. Great Memories. Maybe next trip I'll be able to take another run at a couple of most likely to prove the belief in 3]. kayakbird

Hey, Is the NGS back to using what we were calling the 'Goldie, Oldies' metal? A thread on that subject here somewhere. I would suggest that all 'Newbies' go after the ones that are 'OTM' (older than me) rather than keep doing the Sinatra '-silly old ram-------dam....' thing about the 2000 dump. Traveled north to south a couple weeks ago and again wished that if I still had downhill knees and and Kings field notes. Still willing to share my Google Earth .kmz file for his occpied high points. kayakbird - presently in Moab, Utah

A few, quick, Excel data sorts on Montana's 15911 PIDs comes up with 211 that were placed by the GLO (Government Land Office) and just over half of those are cadastral points in the rectangular survey used out west. SP0396 was of interest to me because of the three shallow pits which had not been noted in the data sheet prior to my recovery. Others might have 100 plus year old bearing trees for RM's, but chisel marks or Monel rivets on railroad structures may be easier to find in your area. kayakbird

Looks like a temporary point - maybe placed by your DOT (state or county roads). What is your location? I have most of the western states in GSAK based Excel files and could maybe suggest some interesting PIDs in your area. kayakbird

RSCONSTRUCTION, Lots of non-standard marks with PID's out there. This link will cover most of them. https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/Survey_Mark_Art.pdf Early on I had a lot of fun trying to figure out if 1/4 inch threaded bolt was what had been placed on a building front in Belgrade in 1907 during the PLN (Precise Level Net) run between Butte and Huntley, Montana. See Note 4, Page 162 (168 of 334 on line ) in Special Publication #18. Have fun filling your quiver. kayakbird

To amplify: https://definedterm.com/transit_traverse kayakbird

It would kind of help to have your GPSr Lat/Longs and clear photos of the lettering. No secrets here and it is still fun to do the table exercise to try to pin (pun intended) it down. kayakbird

Using the National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer centered on Thomaston, there are five USGS marks within a 25 mile radius that use a similar naming convention. Yours is not on the sort-able drop down 'View List'. DG0963 TT 9A was last logged, with photo, in 2016. Like many USGS marks that are not in the NGS Data Base, you may be able to get information from your regional USGS office. kayakbird

WD4JKH, A few clues such as state & county where you first found it. Maybe zoom in on Google Earth to about where that dumpster was and give us that Lat/Long. Was there a somewhat nearby road or box store work in progress at that time. No secrets in this bench-markers forum, please. kayakbird

Looks like PF0951 might get the Purple Ribbon for the most erroneous logs. Even the below photo taken 31 July 2016 of a 1958 set brass disk is wrong. Not PF0951 DESIGNATION - MT WASH kayakbird July

foxtrot xray & all I think that NGS is totally erroneous in keeping two Datasheets going for this single piece of brass with a 0.7 ft elevation difference! KQ0337 HISTORY - 1953 MONUMENTED CGS KQ0337* NAVD 88 - 1530.373 (meters) 5020.90 (feet) ADJUSTED KQ0337* NAD 83(1986)- 39 17 56. (N) 117 55 07. (W) SCALED KQ0337 DESIGNATION - M 46 KQ0480 HISTORY - 1954 MONUMENTED CGS KQ0480* NAVD 88 - 1530.15 (+/-2cm) 5020.2 (feet) VERTCON KQ0480* NAD 83(1994)- 39 17 55.97819(N) 117 55 07.77443(W) ADJUSTED KQ0480 DESIGNATION - M 46 Maybe you could write a note on KQ0337. kayakbird