Team Dromomania

Are you serious? Yes. I have signed many contracts without reading every word in all the fine print on every page. I assume some trust and assume that the contracts are standard. I have yet to be burned. And like I said, if you do read all of the print of your contracts then you're doing great! My thumbs up to you. For me it is not practical to read every cache page BEFORE going for the hunt. I don't know why you want to keep swinging this over to it's some sort of RISK not to read the cache pages. I have no problems with risk. I was hanging over a cliff with my fingertips last weekend in an attempt to nab a cache. And I haven't had a problem with ALR's. I do as they ask WHEN POSSIBLE but always log a find even when it's not possible to complete the ALR (ie I'm already back home from the hunt). The owners have never complained. If they ever should, I would personally think that owner was not acting in the true SPIRIT of cache hunts and finds. So far I've had nothing but great experiences with the cache owners where I've found their hides.

What’s the difference? Logically speaking, both are the same. Practical matters aside, either you chose to hunt a cache without having read the description, or you didn’t. Would I ever hunt a cache without having read the description? Sure! I’ve done it a few times, usually when I wasn’t expecting to be caching that day. The point is that I understood the risk, and took responsibility for my choice to hunt unprepared. I happened to get by in those cases without any problems, but if there HAD been problems due to my not having read the descriptions the trouble would have been MY fault, not the cache owner’s. Paperless caching is a convenience. It does NOT excuse a cacher from the basic responsibilities and etiquette of Geocaching. Besides, there are other ways to access the descriptions. I don’t cache paperless myself, but I understand you can keep the posted descriptions handy with a PDA. Reading the cache description before hunting a cache is important for many reasons other than additional logging requirements. Sometimes it’s critical. There might be other things in there that you really need to know, things the owner needs to tell you, things like issues related to preserving the hide method, not damaging the container, avoiding private property – even your very own safety! Here are a couple of excellent quotes from previous threads on the same subject: From kentuckygirls: Now as far as my opinion. I have always read the description of the cache before I hunted it and I am a paperless cacher. I don't really understand why people don't. It can cause tons of problems if you don't have the proper info, such as times the cache should be hunted, whether it is ok to enter private property, access from which roads, etc. There is lots of info there that could give you or geocaching a bad rep if it is ignored. I do understand that it is a challenge to go without reading the description, but to me it is not worth the trouble it could cause. From RichardMoore: I believe that you should have read the cache page. Not only could it avoid problems while searching for the cache, but I think you owe it to the cache owner. We've all seen cache pages that obviously took quite a bit of effort to research and write. Some give the history of the area. Some will tell you to go a little further and check out a monument or a view when the hider couldn't place the cache there. The minute that you spend reading the cache page could not only solve problems before they come up, and could make the find more fulfilling, but it's a sign of respect and appreciation for the hider's effort. It's your choice, but you skip the description at your own risk of peril. I’ll agree with you there. I think springing such requirements on the cache seeker as a surprise at the cache site is more likely to be annoying than entertaining. It’s still the cache owner’s right to do so, of course, but were I to stumble across one of those I might post a log (or a note) expressing my annoyance. Are you suggesting the owner on an ALR (additional logging requirement) cache should submit the cache under the Mystery/Puzzle category? An ALR cache is NOT a mystery cache. The published definitions for each category are quite clear. Assuming the logging requirement is explained in the description, the cacher has been plenty forewarned already. Whoops! I posted before replying so now my edit is my reply. When you purchased a car or joined the military service did you sit down and read each and every word on the front and the back of the contracts before signing? When you log onto new web sites and agree to thier terms of usage, do you ALWAYS read those terms? If you do, I think you're doing a great thing but it's something many don't do. My post was making a statement addressing the suggestion that all descriptions should be read before the hunt. Yes, they SHOULD be read but in the normal world, this doesn't work. I'm planning a road trip in a couple of weeks and along with my route and two stayovers I have about 700 caches I'll be loading into my GPS. I may actually visit about 30-40 of those depending on our reststops and the spare time I have. For myself, I'm not going to read (and forget) about 700 caches - most of which I will not visit (but may?). I filter out the puzzles, multi's and the Difficulty and Terrain. This catches MOST of the caches which may require extra gear or other ALR's. I'm an owner's rights type of cacher. I believe the owner has the right to set any rules he wants for his hides as long as they're within the guidelines for cache hides. ALR's are for the most part fun to do. I don't mind doing them at all. I use to have one where I asked cachers to trade only items with an orange color. But I never considered deleting any logs for somebody who didn't do such a trade as long as the logbook was signed. That cache was located where a lot of tourist visited and I'm sure some only had the coords in their GPSr's and didn't know about my ALR. I've never had a bad experience with a ALR which I couldn't complete because the requirements were noted AFTER the find while I was making my log. My logs have NEVER been deleted. I guess I'm just lucky that I haven't encountered any hard core ALR'ers (do 'em or be deleted). In my mind that would go against the fun factor of geocaching. I'm think that a searchable ALR attribute would make this tread a non issue. I think I said enough. Time to go geocaching.......

Assuming the logging requirements are clearly explained in the posted description on the cache page, then is it asking too much for people to actually READ the description? I own a cache with an additional logging requirement. My requirement is very plainly spelled out on my cache page. If a cache hunter chooses to ignore the description and hunts the cache anyway, how is that my fault? I always read the descriptions on the local caches. But when I'm on the road or if I hit a distant city I usually filter that route's or area's caches with GSAK, load them into my GPSr and off I go. I usually skip puzzle caches and depending on the time I have I'll skip the Multi caches. But I always load up the Traditional Caches. In these cases I read the description AFTER the find. Sometimes there are additional requirements (cross a word off the list - which is easy to overlook - and use it in your log) or (email what was on the marker (for a traditional?). If I can comply, I will. When I can't, I still log the find and email the owner why I didn't comply. I've never had a log deleted. If an owner requires additonal requirements on a traditional cache I think it would do geocaching better if the requirements could be completed AFTER the find and during the logging period. Otherwise make it a puzzle so that the cacher can be forewarned. It's not that I "chooses to ignore the description and hunts the cache anyway" but rather I choose to be practical in both time and material on trips.

980 with 275 left to find. So what am I doing here when I can be caching... Bye bye.

I leave all my DNF's to keep the history of my searches. When I do finally find a cache after several DNF's I make a new find log which continues the history of my search for that cache.

Once or twice a month I seem to miss a 1/1 cache. I can usually grab it on my next round through the area and it is usually very easy. I still don't understand how I could have missed them the first time. And yes, I usually log my DNF's for my own personal records. Only once did a owner complain that I was logging too many DNF's. I logged one more DNF and then finally made the find. BUT, what I hate is when I meet up with other geocachers and the conversation turns to, "How many finds do you have?" I was on my third or fourth attempt at a hard cache when I met two caching groups. One has about 14 finds, the other has about 50 finds and then they ask me. I tell them a round figure and they all say, "Wow, we have an expert to watch!" Of course, it's the 14 finds cacher who comes up with the find!

Just as there are no rules that one MUST log a find, there are no rules that one must log a DNF. That being said, it is the sharing of experiences of the hunt that makes this activity of geocaches so great, IMOHO. Just go out and have fun and don't try to overthink things.

A cacher (who was an off duty police officer) was trying to use stealth on one of my caches hidden in front of my workplace. While he was searching a fire engine parked right in front of the cache location to inspect a business next door and some firemen recognized him. He explained what he was doing and some joined in the hunt. Meanwhile the office girls saw the fire engine and came out to see what was happening. About this time I - the cache owner - drove up to see a firetruck in front of my workplace with a crowd including the office workers outside. Stealth didn't work in this case.

It's been over an year since my Lonely Pine cache has been found. So today I dropped a Green Jeep TB in it. I don't think the jeep is going to stay there for another year.

I just did a search of the nearest 100 caches to me. 35 of them are MO. That's a good chunk of caches. I guess it all depends on where you live.

I spot other cachers fairly often but I've never met another cacher while doing a wilderness cache.

That's real mature. Frankly I think any cacher putting an ammunition container out in the wild with military markings on it is being irresponsible, especially around an urban environment, and is potentially endangering the game. But I obviously appear to be in the minority with my opinion and if that's the case, especially as a relatively newcomer to the game, I'll abide by the majority. I wouldn't really paint another cacher's container. But I would "think" it. You don't pull on superman's cape and you don't fool with another cachers container without asking first (except perhaps repairing it). For the last couple of years I have painted over my ammo cans. I do have a few placed earlier with all markings intact. I see no reason to take a several hour hike with a can of paint to those caches. I'd rather carry water to help get me there and back. With all kinds of disease carring insects, stinging insects, rattle snakes, bear, mountain lions and armed hunters of unknown training I have more things to worry about when caching in those areas than what my hidden can may say. BTW, welcome to the world of geocaching. I truely hope that the differences expressed in this forum dosn't discourage you from a full enjoyment of the geocaching activity.

It's not as funny as you think. Do a search for "pipe bomb" or "bomb" in these forums and read up on how many caches you can find that have been mistaken for a bomb. It looks like you went to a lot of trouble with your description, and you did a great job with it. But seriously, it looks like a pipe bomb, and depending on where it's hidden it could get a lot of unwanted attention if a muggle sees it and calls the cops before they get close enough to read what you've written on the side. Maybe I should write on it "NOT A PIPE BOMB" But really - whoever finds these things out in the woods or a park somewhere - they are finding a extreamly camoflauged item - deep in the woods - looking for it with the help of a device that measures distance to the foot. We STILL have trouble finding them. People who find these caches are looking for them. I find it unlikely that a geo-muggle will thrash through the woods - find your cache and assume it's a bomb - anymore than they would think an ammo box or a old coffee can was. (assuming they COULD find it - most likely they will walk right past it) But - maybe I'm wrong... Maybe someone out there actually does hide bombs in the woods.. where there is nothing to blow up. Thank you for your feedback It's actually a good debate - since I've never considered the fact that it might be mistaken for a bomb in the woods hidden under a bush. This past year a "sprinkler head" type cache was hidden under a lamp skirt at the far edges of a Home Depot store. A muggle saw somebody do a find and reported it to the police. The next thing you know the bomb squad was there ready to blow it up. But a local cop (and geocacher) got wind of what was happening and managed to save the cache before the BIG BANG. My only question about this whole story is WHY would anybody hide a very small bomb at a lamp post at the far edge of a parking lot? But I guess the police gotta do what they've gotta do. After all, there are some pretty crazy people out there who don't think like normal people (not that I'm normal ).

I'm curious if other folks think it kosher to spraypaint someone else's cache even with the military markings. I don't, it would make me considerably less than happy if someone took it upon themselves to tamper with my container in that manner. Yes sir, I believe that cacher and myself would have a conversation they would enjoy considerably less than they would like, to put it politely. I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor.

I find coins from time to time while caching but I have a couple of interesting finds this year. In the middle of the wilderness I picked up a coin and wiped the dirt off. I had a 1920 s wheat penny. I bet it could tell a few stories. A few miles from this in the same general wilderness area I found a $2 bill along side of the trail. Yep, geocaching is starting to pay off.

I sched. only one PQ to be ran twice a week. For the last couple of weeks they've arrived a day late. I guess I'll have to change my Tues, Sat dates to Mon, Fri so that I can get them on Tues and Sat.

I found a really excellent "cow poop" cache. I poked at it before touching "just to be sure". Another very good job was done using a nano covered by an acorn. It looked very good. Only it's position gave it away.

My own pet peeve: If a owner and a cacher both agree on a log and that log is posted for everybody to see, why do the "geo-cops" have to step in and say that's wrong? Everything has already been settled and approved by the involved parties. For example, pieces of a muggled cache container are found but no log sheet and the owner suggest logging it as a find. Or, a cacher travels many miles to find velcro of a muggled cache but no container and knowing they may never return to the area again ask the owner if a found log is ok. The owner says it's ok and the log is made explaining to ALL what was done. IMOHO geocops need to get out more and do their OWN caching. And if you must know, NO - none of those examples apply to any of my finds.

I don't know, everytime I see carp at the river they seem to be wallowing at the edge of the water. Wow, carp to carp wallowing. How much a yard would that cost?

I agree with all the others. Ratios are just another form of the Numbers game. For me, geocaching isn't about the numbers. It's about the fun I can have while doing it.

When I'm in the woods I enjoy the hike and views. I don't care for "evil" hides on those hikes. However, I can't pass them up. And I have to admit that I enjoy that feeling one has when the cache is finally located. My latest attempt of this type is the Nemesis cache located in California. I'm at stage 6 in a 7 stage cache and have put in miles of hiking, hours of searching and 1000's of feet of climbing while attempting to grab this one. I do have a couple of caches which some may consider "evil". I make my own rock caches using real rocks from the spot where I'll be hiding them. They blend in really well. I email PHOTO's of the caches as hints and even then some don't see it. And I DON'T hide them among other rocks. I don't like "needle in the haystack" caches so why should I make other cachers do them? I've seen some good fence post hides with the cache hidden inside a metal post. One had a bolt at the bottom of the post which needed to be removed to allow the cache to drop out. Another is designed to drop small stones down the pipe to knock the cache free. Right now I'm in the "fun" cache mode of hidding them. I'm using unusual methods or containers to hide caches. I'm out to get that grin from the hunter. You may call these "evil" only because they are unexpected finds.

It wasn't that long ago I kept reading in the forms about the "lame" ammo cans in the woods. Of all the cachers I've met in the field I have yet to find one who said they hated micros so much that they stopped looking for them. There may be a very very few on the forums who'd like to see them go but I think it's going to be highly unlikely. They're here to stay. At least we have a choice about what kinds of caches to search and how we can expand the ways the game can be played.

When I have a question about a cache location I email my local reviewer. They have always come back within a day or two with an answer. It's nice to know before hand if one of my ideas won't work out - saves work and time which can be spent on other caches. But back to your question. A lot of parks are located next to schools. My own personal feelings is to stay away from play yards (even in parks) and stay off of the school property. If an adult would feel uneasy in that area during school time then I wouldn't place one there myself.

I like the idea of owner controlled finds. GC.COM is a listing agent. I don't think they should be the ones to hard set all the rules in detail through software control. I don't like the idea of somebody logging 100 finds for one cache but it took two to tango because the Owner allowed it! I also don't like micros in "lame" locations. I don't like nano caches hidden in the woods. I don't like dangerous caches. I don't like caches located on roads where you either have to bike or you must park on the roadway to retrieve the cache - and that fact isn't listed. There are a lot of caches I don't like. But I believe it's up to the owners to set the standards for their caches and it's up to me as a cacher to choose which cache I'd like to find and log. I do know how I control my own caches and their finds. It seems to me that those most upset about the numbers game are those playing it themselves. Why be upset unless you're looking for bragging rights for your own numbers? Oh yes, just because I don't like a certain cache or a certain method of logging finds doesn't mean that other cachers DO enjoy them and use them. Let them have their fun. I'm having mine.

Each cache web page has a topo map to show the cache location. I personally like the program USAPhotoMaps for topo (and other types of maps).