Ken in Regina

Have you actually proved that the POIs are missing?????? You still don't mention if you tried to search for them (eg. used the "Find" function) in both Mapsource and on the unit. Your approach is of some concern when you say that one is on the unit but not in Mapsource. That doesn't make any sense. It can't get to the unit without Mapsource compiling it into the map file that gets transferred to the unit. It would also be useful if you would list some of the POIs in question in here so others in here with more up-to-date versions of Mapsource can check to see if it's limited to the old version you are using or extends into newer versions. You may have identified a display issue, which is no small thing, but unless you have also searched for the "missing" POIs you can't yet say that they are missing. And even the display problem may be fixed in current versions of Mapsource. ...ken...

The original poster asked for "US & Canada maps". MG Canada is exclusively Canadian with no coverage of the rest of North America. How up to date is MG North America? That's an option I've never considered because I wasn't aware it could be made routable. ...ken...

I suspect, as was mentioned above, that it's the difference in what detail setting was used. There is a difference, sometimes a really big difference, at different zoom levels between the handhelds with their itty-bitty screens and Mapsource on the PC. Apples to apples. Was a search done for some of the "missing" waypoints in Mapsource and on the handheld to determine if the POIs were actually missing or just not being displayed? How much of the problem, if there is a problem, comes from using really old versions of Mapsource? (The current release is 6.14.1. If you don't like it's slow map redraw when panning and zooming, at least use 6.13.7.) ...ken...

If you have maps with autorouting data in them on your Legend, the only significant differences between it and the Nuvi are the spoken guidance and the size of the display. The Legend has all of the routing abilities of the Nuvi. As efflandt said, instead of spoken guidance it beeps as an advance warning and again near the turn. On the screen you will get the same turn preview screen as on any other vehicle nav device .. a zoomed version of the intersection or interchange with a big arrow for your maneuvre and the name of the cross street in bold lettering at the top. If you use a mount for the eTrex that positions it near your sight line you will find it very useful for vehicle nav. One note is that by default the backlight turns off when running on batteries to preserve the battery life. In most cases the display is too dim without the backlight for nav use in a vehicle. You can set it to stay on in the Setup (Display) menu. The backlight might also come on when the turn preview screen comes on, but I can't recall for sure. In any case, for serious vehicle navigation use it would be useful to have a dash mount of some sort that puts it near your sight line, not laying on the seat beside you, and also to have a 12V power adapter so you don't have to rely on the batteries when using it for more than a few minutes in the vehicle. My Legend HCx came with a nice 12V adapter. I recently bought the Garmin dash mount for mine and a buddy bought the RAM mount for his. I like the Garmin mount but my buddy thinks it looks too fragile. The RAM he bought is built like a tank and should survive pretty much anything up to a class 6 hurricane, but it takes more space. ...ken...

You can get a free set of topo maps that will work on the Legend HCx (I have that unit and those maps) but those maps don't have routing data in them. I am not aware of any free road maps with routing data for all of North America. You might be able to find bits and pieces in various places. You would be better off to just spring a little money for City Navigator North America 2009. That will give you all of North America with detailed street maps, detailed routing, the ability to search for and route to cities, street addresses, postal codes and millions of points of interest (stores, libraries, gas stations, hospitals, whatever). If you're just looking for a technical challenge to try to assemble a complete set of usable routable street maps for North America, I wish you all the best because it will be a challenge to find what you need and make it usable. In the end you will have the fun of the challenge but, I fear, not a terribly useful product. If you just want to get the most usefulness out of the new toy and turn it into a truly useful navigation aid as quickly and painlessly as possible, spend a little bit on a decent set of commercial maps, like City Navigator, that are ready to go with everything you could want right out of the box. What are your time and frustration and potential disappointment worth? ...ken...

Perhaps Red90 was refering to Saved Routes. If a unit won't let you save routes and doesn't have the ability to use a saved route, then transfering routes to it would be a waste of time, even if you could do it. In that case, the 2xx models (including 2x5s) do not allow for any Saved Routes. All the rest of the Nuvis do, although most of them don't allow for very many. ...ken...

The better question is, "Which Nuvis don't do routes?" Near as I can tell they all do routes. What good is an auto nav device that won't give you directions to where you want to go? If we're talking about multipoint routing (sorts multiple destinations to determine an efficient route for deliveries and sales calls), then you are down to the 7xx series, the 8xx series, the 5000 and the 7200. Or perhaps we're talking about which Nuvis will allow for the transfer of externally created routes to them, either via USB to the internal memory or on a memory card. That could be a tougher question to answer because I'm not sure what Garmin calls that feature or even if it's a feature they list in their online product specs. ...ken...

I have a Legend HCx which is the same unit without the electronic thingies in it. I have not had the problem you are describing. I've used Topo Canada, Ibycus Topo (for Canada), Metroguide Canada and City Navigator North America. All work very well. How the street grid displays is a combination of how they are defined in the map dataset and what level of display detail you have set in the unit. You can't control what's in the map dataset but you can control the level of display detail (eg. how much detail is displayed at various zoom levels). I don't know what maps were on the store unit you were looking at so I can't make any comment on the map data quality. It doesn't sound great. And it's possible the store unit had the detail display set to max. ...ken...

Garmin's Mapsource program will do it, as long as the 60CSx allows you to upload routes to the PC. You would just connect your 60CSx to the PC and use Mapsource to transfer the route from the device, then connect the Nuvi and use Mapsource to transfer the route to the device. ...ken...

Actually, the biggest factor in how long it took to get a fix this time was the fact that you had driven some distance from the place you had the last fix. The fact you were also moving simply complicated it a little bit more. The reason it is suggested that you stand still when looking for a fix is not the length of time it might take to get a fix, as long as you are near the place you had your last fix. If my last fix was when I drove into my driveway and turned off the receiver, the next time I use it in the car I can turn it on just as I start to back out of the driveway and it makes no difference whether I sit there or start driving down the street .. it will take the same amount of time to get a fix. The reason for the recommendation of not moving is that the longer you stand still, the more accurate your fix can become because the receiver (some receivers) can "average" the location readings over a period of time. Increased accuracy, might be useful when geocaching as you approach "ground zero" (it really depends on whether the person who placed the cache also had a really accurate "averaged" reading .. we'll never know because there is no requirement for cache placers to say whether they "averaged" the reading and/or used WAAS, so nobody includes that info). High accuracy (within reasonable limits) is not terribly relevant for vehicle navigation. ...ken...

You can do either one. If you put the two different maps on two cards it's a simple matter of just changing cards to change maps, of course. But it means you have to pull the back to change cards and you have to have a way to carry the "other" card along on those trips when you might want both. That can all be a nuisance and a hazard with those tiny cards, especially if you have big fingers. Or arthritis. Or both. If you want them on the same card, as has already been mentioned you can do that. In Mapsource you select the Topo segments you want, switch to City Navigator and select the segments you want, then transfer to your device or the SD card. That will compile them into a single map file for the Oregon. But that's not the end of it. It's never that simple. Whenever you have multiple maps on a device, anywhere the segments are for the same area only one of the maps will display (Topo and City Navigator are not transparent so you can't overlay one on the other). So, like with two different cards, even with all the maps in a single file on the card you still need to switch maps. I don't know the menu structure of the Oregon so I can't step you through it, but you will need to tell it to display one or the other. It will default to displaying only one of them (probably City Navigator) so when you want to use the other you'll have to use the menus to tell it to switch to display the other. ...ken...

He said "off mode mode". It does not have that. i.e, there is not a "navigation" screen. Also the units loack to roads and this can not be turned off. Hi Red90, When you select "off road" in the routing preferences, it does not lock to roads. So, when you select "off road" as the routing preference you have, effectively, put it into off road mode. That is, it does straight point-to-point "routing" and it ignores roads (ignores all of the routing data, actually). I don't know what more you want from an "off road mode". ...ken...

Hi bunkerdave, I don't know about anything other than Garmin products. With Garmin's Mapsource utility on the PC you compile chosen map segments into a single map file to download to the GPS unit (as you already know if you're familiar with it). If you have "Include routing information if available" checked at the bottom of the MAPS tab, if there is routing information in any of the map segments you select, that routing information will be compiled into the resulting (gmapsupp.img) map file that goes to the GPS unit. If the GPS unit is capable of autorouting, it will use any available routing data in the compiled map file. If you do as Red90 does for the Calgary Area Trail Maps and make a transparent overlay with the track of your new highway, add the routing information, convert it into Garmin format and install it into Mapsource, any time you include your "map" in a compiled map for your GPS unit you will have that routing information available. By the way, (this isn't aimed at you) nobody has responded to the outrageous suggestion that the notification beeps on active routes are useless for navigating in a vehicle. They are very helpful. They notify that there is an upcoming turn and they do so in plenty of time to prepare for it. If you mount your handheld near your sightline so it's easy to glance at it, you will see that the turn preview comes up at the same time as it beeps. All the info for the turn is right there in big bold lines and letters at a quick glance. I have used mine for autorouting a couple of times when I didn't have my other nav unit with me and it worked great. If you took a look at the general route when you first calculated it, before you start driving, just the beeps alone are, in many cases, enough even in an unfamiliar area. I was quite surprised at how useful they are. I think this is one of those, "don't knock it until you've tried it" sort of deals. ...ken...

Hi Joe, That's a very good tip. Lots of people don't think to try it and buy another charger for their specific device when they might already have one that will work perfectly. It needs to be said that that the only real surprise would be if it did not work. The power output on a computer USB port is a very well defined standard for voltage, etc. So any device that is designed to take power from a computer USB port will be designed to that same standard. That means that the power adapters are all interchangeable. As you said, if it's got a mini-USB connector on it, it will work. ...ken...

Are they lithium batteries? If so, this is a known problem. The new voltage in a lot of lithium batteries is too high for the GPS so in order to prevent damage it shuts down as soon as it sees it. Garmin recommends that you try to run the batteries down a little bit and try them again. They don't say just how you should do that though. If it's not lithiums, I would still suspect the batteries if this started immediately that you installed the new batteries in both and if the batteries are from the same batch. I would suggest trying some batteries that are known to be good in order to satisfy yourself that it's the batteries, and then take the batteries back for refund or replacement. ...ken...

What Red90 said. If you want detailed instructions of what I did, you can see them here. ...ken...

I have a question in to Garmin Support with the same question for my Legend HCx. It should be the same as yours. I'll let you know what Garmin Support gets back to me with if someone with actual experience doesn't have a definitive answer before then. ...ken...

Hi ubern000b, Good luck in your purchasing quest. Okay, I got the program suggested by Red90 and I have some detailed info for the various entity types for the map segment that covers the Barrie/Lake Simcoe area for both v4 and v5. There has to be an easier way than what I did but it's the first time I've used the program so I did the best I could. Here's a link to a picture with the various types of things in the map file with v5 down the left and v4 down the right. I won't bother to attach it here because it will be unreadable at anything less than full size. I had to do a screen capture for the Properties dialog window for v4 (6 screens) and v5 (7 screens). Then I used Irfanview to stitch all the v4 shots vertically and same for the v5 shots. Then I had it stitch the resulting two pics horizontally. Best I could do. I couldn't find any way to get the properties out in a sharable form. What I see is that it's a pretty mixed bag of what has been added in v5. There is the obvious addition of the building footprints but that's only about 40K for the Barrie segment. There is a big increase in the number of POIs but that doesn't add a lot to the size either. If you look through the lists at the various entity types you'll see that it's really spread around. There is a lot of additional data for streets, roads and highways and interchanges. There is also quite a bit added for water bodies, eg. lakes, streams, etc. Overall it looks like they've added information in almost every category so there's really not a lot to criticize them for. I wish I could look at it for the whole country but when I compiled a single file for the whole country GPSMapEdit choked when it tried to load it. It (slowly) got about 25% loaded and then popped an error log complaining about not having enough memory. So I guess this will have to do, unless someone familiar with GPSMapEdit can tell me what I'm doing wrong. EDIT: Ooops, don't try to view the pic in your browser because it's going to try to scale it to fit the window. Save it and display it with a decent image viewer, like Irfanview or whatever your favorite is. ...ken...

Just to expand a little on what Motorcycle_Mama said: -click the Waypoint tabs in each Mapsource window, -in the Waypoint tab with the single waypoint from the .LOC file click the waypoint -click Edit>Copy (or right-click > Copy) -switch windows -click Edit>Paste (or right-click > Copy) Voila! You're done. PS. You can use this technique to copy masses of waypoints at one time. Just select a whole bunch, click Edit > Copy, switch windows and Edit > Paste and that's all it takes to copy a bunch at once. PPS. This also works for copying Routes and Tracks between Mapsource files. ...ken...

Get GPSMapedit. Open an IMG file and look under the statistics. It will tell you how many of what is in the file. Thanks, Red90. I never thought of that. I'll check it out this weekend and report back. Got tickets to a concert tonite so I won't be doing it now. ...ken...

ubern000b, You can get MGC v4 on sale at GPS Central right no. Buy it on sale, buy MGC v5 from Priairie Geomatics (only because they have it and GPS Central doesn't seem to have a clue about it yet), then use the UPC code off your MGC v4 to get the rebate on v5 (yes, you need to own v4 to get the rebate on v5). That way you get them both cheap. 'Course you have to get them bought before Dec 31 and send the rebate form before Jan 31. Here's the rebate form on Garmin's site in case you decide to go for the double-header. ...ken...

Except Google Earth. And, as Grasscatcher said, the calibration sometimes leaves a little to be desired. ...ken...

I don't know. And I don't know how I would find out. If we knew some way to easily get a POI count for each product, that would give us some idea. There is definitely more map data, lots more. But the question is, how much of it is useful? The building footprints show up in in all the cities I've looked at, including cities as small as Moose Jaw, North Battleford and Lloydminster. That has to involve a considerable amount of data but I'm not sure if it's useful data. I like it on my Garmin iQue but I'm not sure how much value they are on my eTrex Legend HCx. The segment with Barrie and Lake Simcoe is 1.45MB in v4 and 2.18MB in v5. If you have limited memory and don't care about POIs and the building footprints, I would have to say, Yes, v4 is probably better for you. It depends on how accurate you want your data to be in your local area. I took a look aroung the edges of Barrie and along the southwest shore of Simcoe and I can see developments where much has been added to the street grid in v5 that does not show in v4. So it's obvious they've added street data. I don't know how you use your handheld so it's hard to give you a straight answer. I don't know if it helps or just confuses the issue, but on the SD card I use in my Garmin iQue I have both City navigator NA 2009 and MGC v5 loaded. Right in Regina I find that v5 is a little better. But I help a friend with his snow removal business in a couple of exurbs 20 minutes east of here and CNNA 2009 is way more useful. v5 has almost no street grid for the area .. no improvement since v4, whereas CNNA has had a much better street grid for at least the last two versions. Both v4 and v5 are routable on any devices that support autorouting. I don't know if your Legend C does or not. I have not looked at the specs. You raise a good question about how much of the increase in data is additional street/road data and how much is other stuff. I wish I knew how to get a handle on that. I don't have a space issue on any of my Garmin devices. I just want to know. ...ken...

Anyone who is interested in learning more about Metroguide Canada v5, including where you can buy it, here's my ongoing assessment of it. Just for a bit of background, I've been using Metroguide Canada v4 since it was originally released. I have been using City Select North America and City Navigator North America since City Select NA v5. I currently have City Navigator North America 2009 and 2009NT (as well as CS v5, v6, CN v8), Metroguide Canada v5 and v4 and Topo Canada v2. I also use the Canadian Ibycus Topos 2.1. For those with short attention spans, the Reader's Digest version is that I'm decidedly ambivalent and you can buy it from Prairie Geomatics. EDIT: As mentioned above, there is a mail-in rebate coupon on Garmin's site for US$30 if you purchase before Dec 31, 2008. ...ken...

If you want a whole bunch of track files for hiking/biking trails in southern British Columbia, just search for the "trans canada trail GPS tracks bc" in your favorite search engine. Another useful search is "Kettle Valley Railway GPS tracks". There are tracks for all three major sections of it available. ...ken...