Ken in Regina
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Posts posted by Ken in Regina
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What Red90 said.
There is only one way to determine the accuracy of your unit (not to be confused with the EPE that the unit reports, which is nothing more than a wild-a** guess). You must take it to a benchmark and let it sit right on the benchmark for a time. Then compare the location on the benchmark to the location that the GPS is telling you. That will give you a better idea of the capability of the unit than anything you've tried so far.
The different EPEs being reported by the two units and the cache finding results may be true, but you'll never know for sure until you compare the actual location that both display at a benchmark or two with known and highly accurate locations.
All you know for sure right now is that the two units probably use different methods for guessing their relative positional accuracy and that the Oregon's calculated position seems to better match the GPS units that were used to set the caches in the first place. Of course for caching use, if this last difference persists, if the Oregon continues to be consistently better for finding cache ground zeros in your area, the real accuracy may be irrelevant to you.
Which unit is better for you for caching is a different question than which one is "more accurate".
Continued testing with your friend is the best way to determine the answer to the first question.
Testing them both against some benchmarks is the only way to settle the second question. Benchmarks can be as interesting to find as caches, so it's a fun exercise no matter what the results.
...ken...
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2 gigs that the firmware in the unit will see. But there is a new firmware update that should be coming out for the unit that will let you go bigger which is in beta and seems people are having trouble with. topic
The link you supplied talks about a firmware update for the 60csx. The OP is asking about the Legend HCx. Are the discussions relevant?
Jamie
I wouldn't think so. The firmware for the 60Csx can't be applied to the HCx. But the 60Csx has been around longer so the HCx may not have the same limit to start with.
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Okay, I checked the Garmin knowledge base again and here's the latest I could find:
Question: What is the largest MicroSD card supported by a X series device?Answer:
There are limitations with both the size of MicroSD data card and the number of individual map tiles that are compatible with the X series devices.
The MicroSD card is used for the purpose of storing track logs and Garmin MapSource maps such as City Navigator, Topo US 2008 and Inland Lakes, among others.
The data card limitations are as follows:
* 2GB - the devices will not accept high speed cards or capacities larger than 2GB
* 2025 Map Tiles
Data cards greater than 2GB and/or have the ultra and high capacity in the title are incompatible.
Last modified on: 01/20/2009
I don't care about card size. 2GB is fine for me for reasons I described in my previous post. But I'm now sufficiently interested in the real answer to the map segment limit issue that I've got a map with 2312 tiles currently compiling to see what the Legend does with it. I'll post the results here as soon as it's done.
...ken...
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I started this new hobby last year. The last month or so I haven't been able to download the Geocaches directly to my Etrex Legend Hcx.
Use your MyGarmin account on Garmin's web site. You don't need to be a member of Geocaching.com to use your MyGarmin account to download caches from Geocaching.com. If you don't have a MyGarmin account, it's probably worthwhile to set one up even just for this purpose. You just need to own at least one Garmin product. It's probably also worthwhile registering your Legend and any Garmin maps you have while you're there.
...ken...
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I've never done it so I can't answer that question. But I have to ask, why don't you just do the route in Google Earth in the first place? That's what I do.
...ken...
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Some of the information that seems to be in conflict really isn't. You will have read about two limitations. Many people get confused because they are often treated as if they are the same limitation only different words being used to describe it. Believe me that they are two entirely different limitations.
One limitation is the physical size of the card. You have asked that question and you have one answer. I can't confirm whether it will support larger than 2GB with the current firmware because 2GB is my largest card. For reasons I'll explain below, I've never felt any need for a larger card.
The other limitation that might be of more concern to you in your plans is the limitation of the number of map segments that the unit can load from a single map file. If you plan to try to load both road maps and topo maps for the entire continental US you will need to pay careful attention to that limit.
I can't swear to the limitation of map segments on the Legend HCX even though I own one. I have seen 2048 segments as the limit for a number of years. I know that this definitely applies to older units. However, I've seen 4096 as the upper limit on newer units. I have not tested this to find out.
What I can recommend is that if you like the Venture HC, you will like the Legend HCX equally. I bought the Venture HC and immediately discovered that the internal memory was insufficient so I sent it back and got the Legend HCX. So if that's the way you want to go, do it. Buy the Legend and a couple of 2GB cards. Load the road maps (City Navigator) on one card and load the topos on the other card. All your father-in-law has to do is swap the cards when he wants to head offroad with the topos. Even a computer newbie will find it easy to understand that you need one card for one map and the other card for a different map and its really easy to change them.
When loading the topos, you should still pay close attention to the map segment limitations. When you use the MapSource program on the PC to select the map segments to load into the unit, there is a tab that lists all the map segments. At the bottom of that tab you will see the total number of map segmenst selected so far and also the amount of space they will occupy. Pay attention to that as you use the map selector tool to select what you want.
I'm in Canada so I can only tell you the statistics for Topo Canada. The entire map is 7316 segments and requires 3.8GB. That would fit on a 4GB card but it is nearly double even the newest largest segment count limitation that I've seen. You might have a similar problem with the US topos.
So, even if the Legend will use a 4GB card you still might have a problem with the map segment limit. You might need to put the US topos onto two cards, say, one for the eastern states and one for the west regardless of the amount of space they need.
I hope that made sense. If you are interested, I can try creating a map that exceeds 2048 segments and see if the Legend handles it. Just let me know.
...ken...
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I have Google Earth installed on my Palm T|X. I'm not sure how large the map cache is so I don't know how much area I can view when I don't have an internet connection. It works pretty nicely when I'm connected to the internet .. it does the satellite images and everything that I can see on the PC version.
...ken...
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I thought Dale (Ibycus) had links to those videos on his site? He has posted them in here in a thread that has a title something like "Free Canadian Maps" or something like that in the CANADA section (scroll way down on the main index page to get to the country-specific sections).
I'm glad you got them to work and that you can easily get enough loaded to work for you. If it works, it works ... can't argue with that.
With the Ibycus topos you have the best visual detail you can get. They have better visual details than either Topo Canada, which is getting way old, or Metroguide Canada, which is a road map so you wouldn't expect a lot of the details of a topo map.
The level of detail in MapSource simply applies to your viewing while in MapSource. MapSource will always transfer all of the detail available in the maps to the GPS device. You will have the ability to do the same detail setting on your Venture HC .. should be in the Settings menu somewhere. The Details setting affects the zoom level when some details, like the street grid in a city or town, will start to appear on your screen. You probably noticed in MapSource that when you zoom out a certain amount you start to lose detail so the screen doesn't get cluttered to the point of being unusable. The Details setting influences that.
The main difference with the Ibycus topos is that you get very little search capability. That is, it contains the visual map data but it does not contain all the address and point of interest (POI) data that the commercial maps contain. So, you can search for city and town names and you'll most often get a hit. But you can't search for an address.
The Ibycus topos also don't contain any routing information so you can't get street level guidance. A "route" to a cache or point of interest or waypoint will always be a straight line from where you are.
That's not a criticism. Dale has built a super product at an unbeatable price. Just sharing some understanding so you'll know that if you decide you want any of those features in the future you'll probably have to add a commercial map to get them.
...ken...
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If you order a set of 4 Powerex NiMH rechargeables you get a nice plastic carrying case with them.
http://www.paulsfinest.com/Maha-PowerEX-AA...-case-p-32.html
...ken...
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I mean no disrespect but that's the problem with trying to do things on the cheap. Most of the "free" solutions aren't. They require lots of time to learn what you are supposed to do to use all the free stuff. That's not a criticism of anything ... it's just the way it is. Some people find the learning process as much or more fun than using the maps when they're done. Some don't.
If you want less frustration you should just buy the maps you want from Garmin. They make good road maps and topo maps for Canada. You just install them from the DVD into MapSource and you're ready to load them into your GPS.
No matter whether you use the free Ibycus topos or Topo Canada or Metroguide Canada, you won't fit much of BC into the 24MB available on your Venture HC.
With Metroguide Canada v5 road maps you can get a rectangle from Kamloops to the US border and from Powell River to Fernie into 24MB.
With Topo Canada v2, that same rectangle requires 71MB. You only get a rectangle from Whistler to Nelson and from Kelowna to the US border into 24MB.
With the Ibycus topos you get even less, a rectangle from about Whistler to halfway between Merritt and Kelowna and from Kamloops to the US border.
When I discovered how little map data I could fit on the Venture HC (about 15 minutes after I got it out of the box), I returned it and got a Legend HCx instead.
...ken...
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I have Mobile XT on my Palm T|X. If I was going to use it for geocaching I would just use Garmin's POILoader program (on the PC) to load the caches onto Mobile XT as POIs.
...ken...
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I always thought that external antennas are only useful for in car needs, when you have a sun protection wind screen
Not true. I have used one for years with my Garmin iQue 3600 when outdoors hiking or on the golf course, as well as in the car.
Having said that, I agree with some of the others that most receivers with the new technology probably do not need an external antenna. The ones I have (eTrex Legend HCx, GPS10x, i.Trek M7, Pharos 500) all provide similar reception without one as my older unit did with it.
With the new technology much of it depends on what sort of internal antenna is provided. For instance, if you always need to hold the unit flat with the screen facing upwards for best reception and you want to be able to stick it in your pocket or backpack while stumbling around and still have an accurate track, an external antenna might be quite useful. A bit of velcro on the top of the backpack or the top of your hat, or a Tilly hat with the pocket in the crown are all great ways to use the external antenna when required.
...ken...
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I decided to split the difference and bought the eTrex Legend HCx.
The Venture HC has no memory card slot. I want to use maps ... more maps than the 24MB internal memory will hold.
I have no use for the electronic compass and barometer on the Vista.
The Legend HCx has the good performance of both, has the memory card slot and doesn't have the electronic stuff.
...ken...
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I have the same unit, and it works great. However, it depends on what you're looking for. Is there any specific feature you are interested in?
I've read that the "Send to GPS" now only works for Premium Members. You can, of course, download the LOC without a premium membership. GPSBabel and EasyGPS can transfer the waypoints to your Garmin. GSAK is not very useful without a premium membership.
Can't you still download caches from Geocaching.com from your MyGarmin account? I don't go outdoors much in the winter (and this one has been long and cold) so I haven't downloaded a cache from MyGarmin since last fall, but it worked then.
It costs nothing for a MyGarmin account at Garmin. You just go there, create the account and register your Garmin product(s). It's a good way to keep a record of your Garmin stuff and also to backup your map unlock codes if you buy maps. I've had to restore my unlock codes from there a couple of times.
...ken...
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I have been using one for a few years. I bought this one from Gomadic. They have multiple different tips for it, including the 5-pin mini-USB connector. I use it regularly during the summer on the golf course. My iQue 3600 has just barely enough battery life for a quick 18 holes. If we end up getting stuck behind some slow golfers it won't quite last, so I always connect the external pack before teeing off and it never lets me down.
I use NiMH rechargeables in it for golf. When I'm on the road/trail away from electrical outlets, I toss it in my backpack with a handful of alkalines.
I built my own and used it for a couple of years before I discovered they were cheaply available on the internet. I think I still have pictures and a parts list (all two parts!) collecting dust somewhere if anyone is interested.
...ken...
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Get her a really, really, really complicated one so that when she can't figure it out you can graciously offer her yours. She will be impressed you thought to get her the very best. She will be gratefull when you offer her an easier GPS. You will wind up with an upgraded GPS. Three good reasons if you ask me!
I'm guessing that you have been married for a while.
Or not nearly long enough.
...ken...
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...has a Vista HCx and he gets ten satts sitting in his house we only wish we could do that.
Correct, BUT.....
That does not mean he is getting a better location fix. In the house all of the signals are reflected. Because of that it is impossible to determine (mathematically) your actually position. There are only probable positions and the unit shows you the "most" probable, which may or may not be the correct one.
Yes. And it's unlikely to be a stable position. When I fire up my eTrex Legend HCx in my basement office and connect it to my PC with GPSView running, the chart plot shows constant movement. It's unbelievable how fast and how far this old house can move! It never settles, no matter how long you leave it running.
If I take the laptop and Legend out onto the deck in the backyard the position information is hugely more stable. It only takes a few seconds to start to settle and stop all the twitching.
I am still impressed at how well it works in a variety of awful conditions and I wouldn't give it up for a second. For general navigation use on a hike or mountain bike ride with a good set of topos on the card it's still very usable even in difficult conditions. But I also don't delude myself that the increased sensitivity necessarily translates into better accuracy.
...ken...
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Thanks for that explanation, Red90. Finally an explanation that makes sense.
...ken...
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The segment limit is higher, though, for the Colorado and the Oregon. Somewhere around 4500 if I remember correctly.
That's a good piece of information to have. When the original poster is trying to build his mapsets, if he's going to try to go for the 4GB filesize limit of FAT32 it's probably still a good idea for him to monitor the number of segments as well as the filesize as he selects the map segments. Just to be sure he keeps both inside the limits.
...ken...
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Some Garmin devices will recognize the following file names for detail maps:
GMAPPROM.IMG - preloaded detail maps
GMAPSUPP.IMG - user-created detail maps
GMAPSUP1.IMG - user-created detail maps
1. If you already have a GMAPSUPP.IMG on the card skip to 2.
1a. Load a mapset onto the card. MapSource will name the file GMAPSUPP.IMG.
2. Rename that set to GMAPSUP1.IMG.
3. Load the second mapset onto the card. MapSource will name the file GMAPSUPP.IMG.
4. Don't rename it.
5. Try the Oregon and see if it recognizes both mapsets. Some devices do, some don't.
It's probably obvious but if you're going to try this test at home use small mapsets first so you won't be so upset if it doesn't work.
WHAT ARE THE LIMITS, REALLY??
Mapset Segment Count:
As far as I know the mapset limit is still 2025 map segments on most Garmin devices, regardless of filesize. (MapSource might not care but your device might choke anyway if there are too many segments.)
EDIT: to reflect information provided further down, Garmin's FAQ says that Oregon and Colorado can handle mapsets with at least 4000 map segments. There appears to be some evidence in the Garmin Colorado Wiki from actual use that supports the 4000 number. There is a higher number stated by one experimenter in that discussion but they did not bother to confirm that all of the segments were actually being displayed by the Colorado.
If you click to the "Maps" tab in MapSource as you're selecting map segments, you can see how many segments you have selected and the filesize (down near the bottom of the tab) before you transfer to the card.
Limits of FAT16/FAT32:
MapSource (actually, Windows) will absolutely limit the file size according to the following:
Volume (Disk) Size: FAT16 = 2GB ..... FAT32 = 32GB
File Size: FAT16 = 2GB ..... FAT32 = 4GB minus 2 bytes
So if your 8 GB card is formatted to FAT32 you can put 8GB of files on it but none of them can be larger than 4GB minus 2 bytes each.
It's a limit of the FAT16 and FAT32 specifications, not MapSource or the devices.
{rant warning}
It's too bad Garmin tech support isn't more technically knowledgeable. If you ask 4 different techs about the map size, file size or SD card limits, you'll likely get 9 different answers. Some might be technically correct. One or two might even be useful.
It's so simple. There are three different questions (mapset segment count limit, filesize limit and volume size limit) and one specific answer per question. It only gets complicated when you don't, first, understand that there are three different questions, not one. We users shouldn't need to know that when we ask the question. Tech support professionals are paid to understand the question properly so they can answer it properly.
{rant off}
...ken... {getting down off my soapbox now}
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If your Japan maps are installed in the Colorado unit's memory you will be safe installing the North America maps on an SD card. When you have the card in the unit you will be able to view both Japan and NA maps.
The fastest way to load the NA maps onto an SD card is to use the card reader on your PC. Make sure the card is in the reader before you do the TRANSFER > Send To Device and MapSource will offer it to you in the list of devices that it can transfer to. That's much faster than transfering to the card through the Colorado.
If you don't have a card reader and are forced to transfer through the Colorado:
DO make sure the card is installed in the CO before you connect it to the PC.
DO make sure you select the SD card from the list of devices that MapSource offers you.
Do NOT select the CO itself or you risk overwriting the Japan maps in the internal memory. (That's not a life/death deal because you can always put them back as long as you have them installed in MapSource. It's just annoying.)
...ken...
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#1 means to send a text message containing a "Position" request to the GPS receiver.
#2 means the receiver will send back a text message containing the latitude and longitude of the receiver's current position.
#3 means to manually enter the latitude and longitude from the text message into Google Earth and you will see the receiver's (then) current position displayed in Google Earth.
It's pretty clear from their web page and their reply to you that they are focused on their vehicle tracking system that uses the GPS receiver together with Google Earth to allow for realtime tracking of a vehicle's location. That's not what you are looking for, of course.
I think the last line of their response is the one to pay attention to. Another poster gave you the link to contact the eBay seller you bought the device from. I recommend you do that. The manufacturer clearly does not understand English very well and did not understand your question. That's not a criticism of the manufacturer; simply an observation that you should take the manufacturer's good advice and contact the seller.
Of course you may not get much help from the seller, either. But they can't be much less help than the manufacturer was.
...ken...
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Hey golfgunny,
The fact is that when you create a new mapset with MapSource it will always name that mapset "GMAPSUPP.IMG" and it will always write it to the same place (eg. the \Garmin folder on the memory card). If you try to create a North America mapset on the same SD card that contains your Japan maps, they will be overwritten because MapSource always uses the same filename and folder ... always.
OPTION 1:
You can avoid this by creating your new North America mapset on a different SD card. That way, when you want to use Japan maps you insert one SD card. When you want to use NA maps you insert the other SD card.
Or...
OPTION 2:
If you don't like the idea of having to switch cards and you might want to have the ability to work with both maps at the same time, you can combine the Japan and NA maps into the same mapset on the same card.
1. Install City Navigator NA 2009NT. (This is, of course, common to both Option 1 and Option 2.)
In MapSource you will now be able to see your Japan maps and your new City Navigator NA maps. You will see them in either the map product selector dropdown just under the FILE menu or by selecting VIEW > SWITCH TO PRODUCT > ... and selecting one or the other.
2. Select your Japan map product.
3. Use the map selection tool to select the map segments to send to the GPS.
4. Select your NA map product.
5. Use the map selection tool to select the map segments to send to the GPS.
6. Select TRANSFER > Send To Device.
7. Select your SD card.
Voila, you have a mapset on the SD card that contains your Japan and NA maps in a single mapset.
I hope that clarifies the issue of using multiple map products in MapSource and your GPS.
I could confuse the issue by mentioning that, depending on which model of GPS receiver you have, you might be able to use up to three mapset files with different names on the SD cards. But that would just be mean.
If you are interested in understanding a bit more about how Garmin MapSource and maps work, you can poke around in this FAQ. It's focused on Mobile PC but the items about MapSource and Garmin's maps are pretty much generic.
...ken...
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My old blue eTrex legend frequently lost sat lock in even light forested conditions - sometimes under a single tree. My Legend HCx keeps a solid lock in heavy dense cover in hilly terrain.
No contest.
There aren't many trees or tall buildings around where I live so my torture test is my basement office. I get six to eight satellites with my Legend HCx sitting right under a bunch of metal heating ductwork. It is genuinely a marvel that it gets a 3D lock down here.
...ken...
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I think this is going to be a pretty repetitive thread:
Yes. Absolutely. Substantially better in almost every way.
...ken...
Google maps & Google Earth
in GPS technology and devices
Posted
Or done occasional backups.
Can you be more specific about what you mean by "get the route the way I want it"? Do you mean forcing it to route through multiple "stops" that might not be on the most direct route between the starting point and the ending point?
...ken...