DaveA

In looking for some caches to do I came upon one where the last 2 logs were people chastising the owner of the cache because the military markings on the ammo can were not painted over or covered with a geocaching sticker. The funny thing is that both the chastisers have hundreds of finds so it isn't like they haven't seen this before. I don't get the big deal personally, but opinions vary.

I was under the impression that collecting geocoings was common practice. The sites I have seen for tracking geocoins say placing the coin in another cache is not necessary. Thinking that all cachers are honest people is naive as cachers are simply a cross section of the general population so that 10% are always represented. You might wish to place your coins in premium member only caches to reduce the geopirate effect. If it is in a member only cache then at least you know the individual has paid money to support caching. Such a person seems less likely to 'steal'. One local cacher who places a good number of challenging caches has begun making his newest caches member only caches, but his profile page says non members can contact him and he will provide the location of the caches for them as well. This way he has some control over who is visiting his caches and can limit the cache pirate effect. On a side note, all the coins I have seen cost $8-$12 to make. Is that what people are paying or am I looking in the wrong place? There also seems to be a market for these coins on ebay. I would think this would make grabbing these coins very attractive for the unethical.

Agree with the others. Any handheld GPSr on the market will work, it all comes down to your budget and what features you desire. If you really don't know what features you want (and how would a person who has little to no experience using a GPSr know?) you might wish to stick with the sub $100 (US) models to start with. If you stick with Garmin or Magellan then you will likely have no trouble finding someone to sell that unit to in the event you later decide to purchase a unit with more bells and whistles. All you really need for caching is a unit that has a compass screen and as far as I know they all do. This is what is usually used when zeroing in on the cache location. Beyond that if you believe you will want to load a hundred or so cache locations into the GPSr then choose a unit with a USB cable that attaches to your PC/laptop. If you will only be loading one or two caches at a time then manual entry works fine.

I would not enter the mine. Not for mine safety reasons, but for the bats. A couple things to consider. The bat guano (poop) when present in large amounts can be toxic to breath. That isn't my main concern though as everyone knows you cache at your own risk. My main concern is I wouldn't want to disturb the bats. Most caves around me that have a bat population are protected and only researchers are allowed to enter for the purpose of setting up equipment to monitor the health of the population. I don't know about your area, but it *might* be illegal to enter this cave although if it is I would *think* something should be posted somewhere nearby. In any event I wouldn't enter the cave (although I would be sorely tempted to) nor would I put a cache in one because some people wouldn't be able to resist screwing with the bats and I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. So I wouldn't enter the cave. Not because of safety concerns, but for environmental concerns.

I am curious as to why some have encouraged the OP to adopt the caches out rather than just archive them? In my limited experience 60% of caches are placed by cache spammers who fill up otherwise desirable cache spots with log only micros, 30 percent are actual containers, but placed in unremarkable locations and maybe 10% are memorable caches either for the swag, the location or the experience. Given this, why try to preserve a cache placed by a vacationer who doesn't maintain it, doesn't want to see emails about it and probably put zero thought into the initial placement? Seems to me archival (and asking those who found the cache to please remove it) is the better option 90% of the time.

The etrex legend is an 'oldie but goodie'. The explorist series is more modern. If you find both for the same price I would go with the more modern unit, but at the same time the etrex series is kind of like the old mule in the barn. Sure, you may have upgraded to a tractor, but that dang mule still gets the job done. It is hard to go wrong with the legend, unless you pay too much.

That's funny.

Yes, in my opinion Garmin is the best out there. My first handheld was a Magellan GPS15 or something like that, maybe a 115? I replaced it with a Magellan GPS Color. Nice unit and I am happy with it, but it pales in comparison to the Garmin 60CS (the Garmin equivalent) in terms of it's screen. Next I wanted an auto GPS and I compared the Magellan Roadmate to the Garmin 7020 (or 2070, I am bad with numbers). The Garmin is a much better unit (tho not without flaws) largely due to software. As far as I am concerned the Magellan hardware used to be superior to the Garmin hardware while the Garmin software was superior to the Magellan software. In the last few years the hardware equalized and it became who has the best map software and the best UI. Both Garmin and Magellan are licensing the same map data (same as google uses for their maps) these days so it boils down to controls and UI. Garmin wins hands down in this department in my opinion. Now, you indicate you just want to mark fishing holes to start off with and the good news is any GPSr on the market regardless of price will serve you well for this purpose. It isn't until you start using the GPSr frequently or to give to street directions or try to use it under challenging reception conditions that the various models make any difference. Think of it like a cell phone. If you only have one to dial 911 in an emergency, who cares what phone you have, they all will work for that purpose. OTOH if you are talking every day on your cell you want a carrier with good coverage in the places you are in, and features you will use. How much research you put into a GPSr should depend on how and how often you will use it. Besides, if you start using it regularly you will replace whatever you buy soon enough anyway. Which brings me to my next point. Stick with Garmin or Magellan. Why? Because when you replace whatever you buy the hardware is just part of the cost. The software and accesories is the other part. If you upgrade with the same brand much of the software and accesories will still be usable, but if you switch brands none of it will as it is all proprietary stuff.

I didn't find the cache and I honestly don't know how anyone ever did. The cache was located on top of some rock bluffs that required a fairly strenous climb. Because the area was entirely rock, multipath interference with the GPSr was a major issue. Once at the top of the bluffs the GPSr instructed me to proceed 200ft off a cliff with a 500+ foot drop. Clearly not the way to go. The GPSr couldn't get me closer than 500 ft and surveying the area I found a forested area with 1000s of trees of the same age and species so absolutely nothing distinct for me to search. I think it may have been a micro as well, don't recall. It was pure evil and no way to tell it was evil until after the climb. Evil I tell you. EVIL.

There are no rules so do what you are comfortable with. That said, here is what I would do: If the other group finds it I would count it as a find. What is the alternative? Since it has been found and you now know where it is you can never log it if you feel not finding it on your own doesn't qualify as a find. Should you go away? No. You were there first. Should they have gone away and waited for you to leave? Yes, if you explicitly and politely informed them that was your preference, otherwise no. Generally I regard other cachers who arrive before me as having first dibs on the cache. That means if they welcome me looking with them then I do. If they say they would like some time to find it on their own (never happened yet) then I would respect that. Regardless of who actually finds the cache I count it as a find. Group effort thing. Again, there are no rules governing this so do as you feel comfortable with. My opinion is just an opinion.

I also find the 11 mile range (or whatever range th package says) to be a joke with these FRS radios, but they sure beat the old walkie talkies that lost signal in the backyard Generally I only use them when I go caching with the family. My wife isn't keen on bushwacking of any kind so I take a radio and leave her with one so we can chat if she get's bored. I also like to use one when she is with if I am doing a potentially dangerous cache like one involving my wading across a river or something so if I get in trouble I can let her know. Mostly I use the FRS when shopping though. I hate when I try to find my wife and I walk the entire store 20 times and can't find her. That is when those things are really handy. Course I could just use my cell phone, but the FRS just seems more... ummm.... I dunno, I just like it.

The photo of your ammo cans on the shelf made me laugh. I have four ammo cans on my shelf too! 2 of them are even stocked. Like you I don't want to put out 'just another cache', I want the cache to be awesome. A year or so ago I considered my area to not have many good spots and there were only a few caches within 10 miles of me. Now there are dozens. Many I consider unremarkable locations, but there have been some nice hides I really enjoyed that I could have used, but simply wasn't aware the spot existed. I think part of the problem is simply getting out and exploring natural areas for the sake of exploring them and finding the good spots. One idea I have is the river near you. From the photo it looks like there are no caches *in* the river. If you really want a high traffic cache you won't like the idea, but putting an ammo can cache on an island in the river makes for a lot of fun for some people (like me). If the island is subject to flooding, just use a chain and lock to secure the ammo can to a well rooted tree so it won't float away. Don't worry too much about maintenance as ammo cans are weather/waterproof for the most part and an on river location isn't likely to get muggled. Just stock the can with some good swag and plan on visiting for maintenance once per year. Another idea is to stash the ammo can in an unremarkable location, but make it a multi leg cache and make the journey itself worthwhile even though the last leg isn't anything special. A visit to the local library may turn up historical sites of interest that are little known and not often visited. Could make for a nice cache experience to teach visitors a little history about the area and even learn a thing or two yourself. Maybe there is an old, mostly abandoned cemetary nearby with someone buried there who did something worth remembering. Maybe there is an area with nothing more than the remnants of a structure with historical meaning out in the middle of nowhere? Maybe there is a little natural nook in the middle of developed land? Maybe there is an area that isn't remarkable in itself, but someone died there and you could tell thier story as a memorial to them? In other words if you are having trouble finding a great area, perhaps consider an area that isn't great for it's natural beauty, but you can make the experience great by telling a great story to the cachers?

Your litmus test as to whether a cache is good is if there is easy parking nearby? Ummm, OK. Welcome to the wonderful world of light pole and dumpster caches. (I bet many of you are surprised to see this comment coming from me.) Without going into details I agree with Bad CRC. While I am not the most experienced cacher in the world by a long shot, in my limited experience caches with no posted parking coords in areas where there is no obvious legal parking have been duds. By duds I mean a crappy, non weatherproof container, hidden in a non clever way and containing nothing unsuitable for CITO in an area that isn't in any way worth visiting for it's own sake. I have done a couple caches where the cache page indicated that finding where to park would be a little challenging. Those were fine and the most recent one was simply a newly developed area where neither my GPSr software nor google maps showed any of the roads yet. Your mileage may vary.

I nominate this for funniest post ever. I have been leaving neodymium magnets for awhile, never met anyone who didn't think they were cool so I bought a couple hundred and am working through those. I have also left zipper pull compasses, but the ones I have kept for myself generally don't work well very long so I scrapped them. I have also left aluminum pill bottles on lanyards suitable for uber micro caches, but I don't like uber micro caches so scrapped those too. A few years ago I bought 10 or so travel bug dog tags and have since decided I have no interest in travel bugs so I placed one in a cache today and may put out a couple more, the rest I will save for my own caches. In general I don't like finding dollar store stuff that has moving parts as it is nearly all garbage that breaks quickly. The cheap mini flash lights and laser pointers are examples of things I have bought new and had break on the first use. If they lasted awhile I would love them. Something I am considering for late winter/early spring is leaving packets of easy to grow flower seeds that are not invasive type flowers. Often these can be found for 10 cents-25 cents each at certain times. I struggle with this though because many natural areas have problems with 'escaped' flowers from people's yards taking over. So, I would have to make sure the seeds were nothing that was capable of taking over if some critter got into the cache and scattered them.

Hey Jerry, This is just my opinion and before I give it, there are no rules so just do what you are comfortable with. Today I met some nice folks while caching. They were there first and I arrived while they were hunting. I could care less about FTF as I am not all that active a cacher, but for some folks it is a big deal. Anyway, as I approached I could tell they were cachers and they said hello to me. After disclosing to each other that we were cachers they commented they had been to the site before and hadn't found the cache. They welcomed help in finding it. I did find it, about 20' from where both our GPSrs pointed to. Upon finding it I left the immediate area, went to where they were and let them know I found it. I asked them if they wanted me to show them where it was or just give a little hint and give them some time. They wished to be shown where it was as they were getting tired of looking. The moral here is they indicated to me they welcomed my help in searching. So, I joined in. Had they not actively welcomed my searching with them I would have left and returned later. I figure it is just being courteous to let those there first determine whether I join them or not. After finding it, I also gave them the option of being shown where it was or allowing them to continue searching. Again, I just figure it is being courteous. Some folks would be ticked had I held the cache up when I found it as they would have wanted to find it themselves, others would welcome being able to log it and move on. They were also very courteous. I allowed them to open the cache as they were there first, but they handed me the log to sign first since I found it. Now, had there been a gold bar in the cache we may have had some issues All in all, if you arrive second, just ask those there first what they prefer and respect it. You can't go wrong with that policy. Just my opinion.

Well I have been caching for 4 years and have about 30 finds under my account and another 10 or so under a previous account. That pretty much answers the question! I guess, doing the math, that means once per month, but I actually go several times per month and then go months with no caching. If it is hot and buggy, I don't cache. If it is wet or cold (miserable) I don't cache. So, spring and fall pretty much.

If it has been 7 months since the last visitor and the cache owner has done nothing then screw the cache owner. Email the approver to archive it and place your own. Seriously. Ok, somebody places a cache and needs to take a few days off. Understandable. The cache owner goes on vacation a couple weeks. Understandable. The cache owner gets burned out and takes a few months off. Understandable. 7 months is at least one month over the line. Why redo someone else's cache? Just place your own and get theirs archived. I would bet money that the approver messaging the current owner gets no response.

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I don't know as I don't have a roadmate, but I doubt it allows that to be done. My Garmin 2720 doesn't have any direct way to enter coords. It has an indirect way to do it via custom POIs, but I don't think the Magellans have that feature yet.

I respect what the cache owner is trying to do by starving the cache thief from gratification, but I suspect the cache owner is unintentionally feeding the theif by deleting DNFs. Clearly a cache thief is a person with a mental illness, very low self esteem, whatever. This person feels better about his/herself by causing others aggrivation. So, the thief does something that takes no skill and involves no risk and steals a cache. OK, small amount of glee for the thief. Next step in getting deranged pleasure is seeing the DNFs. So, remove the DNFs, right? No. If the thief has the cache on his/her watchlist they are emailed the DNF as soon as it is posted. If they then click the link in the email to read the log and it shows up as not existing the thief knows the cache owner deleted it. So now the thief gets the pleasure of the DNF as well as knowing the cache owner is expending time/energy trying to deal with the thief and is unsucessful. I would think if a cache thief is active in an area the local cachers should be able to contact the local mods/approvers and request they look into who is on the watchlist of the caches that have been stolen. More than likley there will only be one person who is on the watchlist for all the stolen caches. From this point the person can simply be banned from the site on the basis of their IP and an email sent to them explaining why they were banned. Problem solved.

A potential way to secure the FTF prize while avoiding having to lock the can would be to only have coords to the FTF prize in the can, not the FTF prize itself. From there you can stash the FTF prize in an area much less likely to have muggles around. You can also give hints that will make it very easy for the cacher to find once they are in the general coord location. This will prevent muggles from getting it as they aren't likely to know how to get to the listed coords.

In the 'old' days I would use my non mapping gps to get me close and then circumnavigate around trying to find a good parking area. Then I got a Magellan Color with the autorouting software and began using that. Then I got a Garmin 2720 car navigation system (sweet product). It doesn't accept coordinates, but it does accept street intersections and often has the park the cache is in as a POI. I haven't used the feature yet, but the 2720 accepts custom/3rd party POIs and Garmin provides a free download for a utility to create them. With this one can input coords and have them uploaded as POIs to the 2720. Still, I am just getting back into caching after a winter hiatus and find myself using the Magellan color more often than the 2720 to get to the cache area as inputing the coords is convienient. Where the 2720 really excels is that it seems to know where all the park entrances are and the Magellan color doesn't, it just gets me to the area in most cases. So, magellan to get me to the area and from there the 2720 touchscreen I just tap a couple times and it tells me where the entrance is.

The satellites are in a non geosynchronous 12 hour orbit. So yes, you can get a different list of sats at different times. see this link Also as the sats orbit their position relative to your GPSr changes. The system was designed to ensure that every spot on the globe would always have a minimum of 4 sats visible, but sometimes you will get many more. As an aside the 16 channel receivers hitting the market are kind of silly. There are, I believe 27 or 29 sats. Unless the number is increased nobody is ever going to track 16 sats at once. I recently did a cache where ground zero moved 80' in nearly opposite directions repeatedly by my simply walking 10'. It was odd and doesn't happen often. I had a mostly clear view of the sky too. Go figure.

possibly the firmware update made changes to your baud rate setting or NMEA settings which make communication impossible. Your owner's manual should indicate the correct settings. My Meridian is set to baud rate 115200 and NMEA off. It communicates with Direct Route fine at these settings so try them if you aren't already setup for that.

Agreed, they are both good units. As a 2 time Magellan owner (315, Meridian color) I would personally opt for a 60C from Garmin over an explorist because I do not like the proprietary battery issue and there are annoyances I have had with my units that Magellan hasn't addressed in their newer products. I am sure Garmin has their own annoyances though. Anyway, you will get lots of opinions, but what it really boils down to is both are good units and perfectly serviceable for caching and other pursuits. One thing to keep in mind about Garmin units is that they seem to have a much longer battery life than Magellans. With my Meridian a fully charged set of batteries last me about 6-8 hours of use. The backlight pretty much has to be left on to see the screen well. I think the 60C gets about 30 hours of life from charged batteries. I find myself a tad uncomfortable with the Magellan's battery eating as I frequently will day trip and leave the GPSr on to track where I have been. I spend too much time checking the battery level for my comfort. An example would be when I canoe in a marsh area nearby. It is like a maze and the backtrack feature is really handy, particulary when bad weather threatens and I need to get back to shore ASAP. Your needs may vary.