[Creative cache building]

there is a face book page I frequent. WOuld love to have you visit and frequent it as well.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EDGEcaching/

 

Chris

[Guard Rail]

[Huge statistics]

Nevertheless, some simple calculations show that a person logged e.g. about 5 geocaches per hour. (Once I saw a profile of a cacher who did one cache in about 3-5 minutes). How is it possible?

Try one cache per minute (or better). As well as being placed 0.1 miles apart, many caches along certain power trails are hidden very similarly (e.g., under a rock behind the nearest bush). So searchers don't have to spend very long looking.

 

Here's a video of geocachers finding three power trail caches in less than three minutes:

 

 

Perfect answer to his question! Isn't the record something like 400 plus in one day? Amazing... not something I relish doing but still WOW!

[Fraudulent Finds]

Well if it's not your cache, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Even if it is yor cache why worry about it? Truly! The integrity in this game comes form the signer not anyone else. If that person is ok with having a bunch of numbers in his stats that are not truly finds .... ok? I don't get it but whatever. if they want to do it that way I don't care. Numbers don't really matter to me anyways.

 

Chris

[Groundspeak is all about the $$$?]

I started geocaching with a $25 gps I bought off of craigslist. Garmin 72. I still have it and it will still works. I cached for probably more than 6 months and then decided this was something I was going to stick with and bought a premium membership. I will say this if one truly can't afford a $30 a year fee for premium membership perhaps you should not be worried about that fee. Indeed paying heating and food bills would take precedence. Now having said that I bet most of the people complaining about this have cable tv in their homes and a second car etc.. this is not about "poor" it is about someone wanting something for nothing and whining about it.

 

Chris

[Challenges Data]

You're a couple of months late. When they announced challenges were going to be discontinued it was made clear every trace would be deleted.

That was the time to complain about it...

 

Trust me I did ! I did until blue in the face. I have it that the data is archived on the server.... Why not let us view it? SInce posting this I have looked at my profile and that tab is no longer there either. It was there for a long time with just the notice attached to the tab .

[Challenges Data]

I was wondering if there is any chance we can have the challenges pages data available for viewing on all profiles? Like when a cache is archived why can't we have the same option with the challenges? IE: when I go to someone profile I can click on the tab for challenges and se the ones they created and completed and open the challenge page just like an archived geocache page. I would be very greatful if this would be considered by Groundspeak!

Sincerely and Respectfully.

Christopher Pine

[Groundspeak Budget (release)?]

One things for sure the money is not going to the challenges anymore!

[Geocaching map- Ipad2 touchscreen issues?]

You aren't the only one that has that problem. I have it too. Verrrrrrryyyyy frustrating at times, especially when I have it tethered to my phone out in the field. I have to try clicking on it a couple of time and sometimes zooming in and out will eventually get it to be able to click on it. Not sure if it is a precision thing on the iPad or an incompatibility thing with the site.

The last several months using the app on my iphone I have had jittery maps. The icons for the caches jump all around and makes it difficult to view the map.

 

Chris

[Why so few minority geocachers?]

I love the hobby of Geocaching and have also enjoyed meeting others with the same passion. Over the past couple years since I started caching, I have continued to notice a phenomenon. Geocachers are almost exclusively white. I say this after attending over 20 local events and 3 mega events and observing thousands of cachers. I have probably "observed" hundreds more in pictures or through Facebook groups about geocaching.

 

So my question is WHY???? I live in an urban area in Ohio, among a fairly diverse population. There are many, many middle-class people of all races living near me. There are a great number in technical fields such as computer science and engineering who work very close to where I live (I mention those fields only because it seems that I have met many cachers who have backgrounds in those fields).

 

Any theories? It seems odd to me that it is such a "white" hobby

 

We are white?

 

Chris

[why did they delete my data?]

Something was taken from the ones who liked and participated with the challenges... what was for goodness sake, taken away form the other complainers who said something like "I don't like them", "I think they are not about geocaching", etc... and then could have ignored them and moved on... now when someone rejoices I don't get it... compare it to "I didn't like twinkies anyway I am glad they are gone!" ???!!! The idea that Groundspeak got rid of the data because they did not want to have folks asking about them years from now? Man I hope not, because that is very short sighted and really amazingly disregarding of the customer... WOW! Yes I suppose you could say that the "resources were committed to challenges and thus did not get focused on geocaching per say. I sure did not see much evidence of challenges getting a lot of resources dedicated to them. Maybe that was the reasoning from the beginning and why they were set up the way they were. I have heard from others that when the old style virtuals were around that it was a lot of work to review and approve etc... s maybe they were hoping to put something in place that was sudo automated and would require less work or resources to approve or maintain etc... Perhaps they don't have enough folks resources etc to do anything else but geocaching.

Anyhow... I already expressed my opinion previously in this thread and I will move on. Don't expect me to jump on board of the next brilliant idea of theres as I don't feel like I can trust them. The "experiment " was not one to me I was not doing them thinking it would just be dumped in the trash one day.

 

There's so much wrong here it's not even funny. Not only is it a narrow and uninformed view, it's poorly articulated.

 

Challenges weren't removed because people complained that they didn't like them. Challenges were removed because the ratio of site users to challenge users was massively low on the challenges side. All of the work and effort put into designing the challenges, writing the content for each, programming the code and rearchitecting the databases to accept the new category, and everything else related to it was being done for a small subset of users that wasn't enough to justify the effort. (And yes, just because YOU didn't see evidence of resources dedicated to challenges doesn't mean it didn't happen. Adding something like that to a database architecture of this size and maintaining it is a massive undertaking.)

 

Again, if you don't agree with how this site is being run, nobody is stopping you from leaving. You're completely able to start a parallel challenges website of your own. After all, it's easy to do, right?

 

P.S.: it's not "sudo", it's "pseudo". And it's not "per say", it's "per se" and it should be italicized since it's Latin.

 

I never said Challenges were removed because people complained. I have no idea where you informed yourself of this being the message I posted? Seems extremely narrow and uninformed.

 

What I meant by not many resources being dedicated to challenges is there were many suggestions for improvements etc and there were no changes made. IE: Make the challenges more controlled by the "Challenge owner" like they are with geocaches. That is just one example, there were many others. In other areas of the geocaching website they have taken interest in improving things and have done so over the years. I never said that it was easy or that I would go and make my own website. I liked the challenges and I did not want them to throw the whole thing away. If that offends you , oh well!

The argument of "that if you don't like the way the site is run you can leave"... while it is true it is a horrible argument, especially to a customer. I don't want to leave. This is largely an argument of "shut-up or leave". Thanks for your input. I would guess using this approach in a customer service role would be discouraged.

As to the corrections you made to my post... thank you so much what in the world would I do without you? My lack of perfect "articulation" is like in a debate you saying to the other person "you are bald" . It is designed to put the opponent on defense. Nice try... I don't care.

Whatever you saw in the post that drove you to be so aggressive, I hope you have a better day.

Chris

 

I am not really concerned much about this thread as no doubt it will be completely deleted form the site in seven days.

[why did they delete my data?]

Challenges weren't removed because people complained that they didn't like them.

Actually, cpine may have been right on the mark.

With other ideas that Groundspeak didn't feel met their vision, they took other, less Draconian steps, such as when they locked down Locationless caches so no one could log any more, or when they removed the option to create more Virtual caches. In both those instances, Groundspeak left the data as a record of our caching history. With Virtuals, Groundspeak still spends some of its time fiddling with them, though I would guess that time is pretty brief. With Locationless caches, Groundspeak's continued energy expenditure is zero.

 

It would cost them nothing to let that data stay.

Yet they erased all traces of it.

Why do you suppose that is?

 

I don't know the mind of the Lily Pad, but it certainly seems possible that their reasoning was at least partially influenced by the huge outcry against them. The old adage of sweeping an unsavory mess under a carpet comes to mind.

P.S.: it's not "sudo", it's "pseudo". And it's not "per say", it's "per se" and it should be italicized since it's Latin.

It's been my experience that when you start critiquing speeling, you've lost whatever argument you wanted to make.

 

Thank you!

[why did they delete my data?]

They don't have to be Fecebook to do that.

 

Terms Of Use section 6 -- License to Use Submissions contains this:

 

By submitting any Submission to Groundspeak, You grant Groundspeak a

worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, perpetual, irrevocable, fully-paid royalty-free license and right to use, reproduce, distribute, import, broadcast, transmit, modify and create derivative works of, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease or lend copies of, publicly display and publicly perform that Submission for any purpose and without restriction or obligation to You.

That's pretty standard boilerplate for a website. If they didn't give themselves that access, they could never store your data on multiple servers or have their web servers respond to a request when someone went to view a photo in the gallery.

 

I feel for Groundspeak. Had they left everything relating to Challenges in place there would be a 10+ page thread bashing them for messing up the site and not cleaning up all the crap relating to Challenges.

 

I don't think it's so much that Groundspeak doesn't listen to or care about their users, it's that the users are going to complain no matter what.

 

The difference is that some of the "complainers" have an actual valid grievance. Only partially smiling... Something was taken from the ones who liked and participated with the challenges... what was for goodness sake, taken away form the other complainers who said something like "I don't like them", "I think they are not about geocaching", etc... and then could have ignored them and moved on... now when someone rejoices I don't get it... compare it to "I didn't like twinkies anyway I am glad they are gone!" ???!!! The idea that Groundspeak got rid of the data because they did not want to have folks asking about them years from now? Man I hope not, because that is very short sighted and really amazingly disregarding of the customer... WOW! Yes I suppose you could say that the "resources were committed to challenges and thus did not get focused on geocaching per say. I sure did not see much evidence of challenges getting a lot of resources dedicated to them. Maybe that was the reasoning from the beginning and why they were set up the way they were. I have heard from others that when the old style virtuals were around that it was a lot of work to review and approve etc... s maybe they were hoping to put something in place that was sudo automated and would require less work or resources to approve or maintain etc... Perhaps they don't have enough folks resources etc to do anything else but geocaching.

Anyhow... I already expressed my opinion previously in this thread and I will move on. Don't expect me to jump on board of the next brilliant idea of theres as I don't feel like I can trust them. The "experiment " was not one to me I was not doing them thinking it would just be dumped in the trash one day.

[why did they delete my data?]

You all should be happy that Groundspeak isn't owned by Facebook, who would not only have deleted your access to your data, but would have said they could sell it without your permission.

Stand By

[why did they delete my data?]

Finally a responsible voice. Plus one from me

 

Where? Did I miss it? What did it say?

I am out of here... going to do some caching...

[why did they delete my data?]

Finally a responsible voice. Plus one from me

 

So your opinion and anyone who agrees with you are teh only responsible voices? Please!

[why did they delete my data?]

you should NOT cache or do challenges for the stats, but for fun experiences,

even if your number of challenges are now gone from the web stats,

no one can take away the fun you had doing them, that is how I think of all the cool places we visited

and took pictures, and did wierd things just to handle a lot og chellenges,

we did 68 in 6-8 contries.

 

I do not do caches or Challenges for the stats, however if I did who are you or anyone else to say I should not? This game is whatever you want it t be! If someone loves racking up teh numbers (Power trails etc) then more power to them! I don't care how others play the game... I think this thread has run its course... I hope I have not offended anyone

[why did they delete my data?]

i was not intending to infer that they did not notify me... there notification is lame and vague at best! I have all of my photos etc...

 

Vague?!?

 

In approximately 7 days, we will be removing all traces of the Challenges functionality and related content from Geocaching.com.

 

I sure wish they'd stop beating around the bush and just come right out and say what they mean!

 

Tell me why they needed to remove my data? Tell me why they decided to stop the whole program? Other than some general reference that it was not popular or not working etc... seemed to me it was working just fine. Yes it was VAGUE!!!!!!!! WHat is the eal story... all I got from that notice was they were going to do it and that is it!

 

I am really having trouble understanding why you don't get my question... yes Vague... what made them make this drastic of a change ?! Are you truly not understanding or just twisting this to start a fight?

I wasn't answering the "why", and I can't. I wasn't invited to those meetings. I answered your ridiculous charge of vagueness.

 

How you feel about your logs and count being erased, and why they did it is an entirely different question. My GUESS, and that is all that it is, is that they are hoping that by erasing every trace, that challenges won't come back to haunt them as virtuals have. They are hoping that they won't have to put up with endless "bring back challenges" threads five years from now. But I really don't know... that's just my guess.

 

Are you truly not understanding or just twisting this to start a fight?

That was my very first post responding to your thread. Others have posted several. Why would you ask me that question before you asked some of the others?

 

The vagueness I was referring to was as to why they did what they did and yes this was a rant post... Sorry. I don't like this decision...

 

"Occasionally, during this process, we are faced with the reality that certain ideas don't catch on as we had hoped. In these situations we owe it to ourselves and to you to make tough decisions about the future of every project and the resources to be applied to each. Sometimes, as a result, cool features must become casualties."

The vagueness I was referring to was there were no real reasons given (that made any sense to me at least) as to why exactly they did this. It seemed very indirect in how it was worded. They say that they made a mistake and we are deleting all traces of the challenges. What? Why? A less vague answer would have been something like: "We can not afford to support challenges as we have had a less than adequate participation in them." We have spent a large percentage of improvement funds and the rewards have been less than needed to continue etc..." AS to the why they are deleting the data I really think there is not a good answer for me on this! ( I am sorry you thought when I said vague it was more literal in reference to when they were going to delete all of the information... I never said I did not know what they announced. .. I am sorry that I perceived your post as making fun of mine when you quoted one line of what I posted and turned it into a shot. (Perceived at least).

[Kiss a Frog?]

Never kissed but I did pose next to one as he qualified as a Lackey.

 

Chris

[why did they delete my data?]

.

[why did they delete my data?]

i was not intending to infer that they did not notify me... there notification is lame and vague at best! I have all of my photos etc...

 

Vague?!?

 

In approximately 7 days, we will be removing all traces of the Challenges functionality and related content from Geocaching.com.

 

I sure wish they'd stop beating around the bush and just come right out and say what they mean!

 

Made my day.

 

Like I said this post has nothing to do with the context of my post and does not answer the question I asked... you can pull one line out and twist it to infer most anything ... what did this add to the discussion? I asked a legitimate question about what is going on and some folks juts want to make fun of others I suppose because it makes them feel better about themselves. ...I will risk getting a warning post from moderators if I post anything else.

[why did they delete my data?]

It wouldn't have hurt anybody to let people keep their stats.

That.

 

Groundspeak redefined itself with that move. Prior to this, when Groundspeak decided a part of their game wasn't working for them they did one of two things. Either they locked those objects down so no one could log any more, as they did with locationless caches, or they eliminated the option of creating more, allowing the existing ones to die a natural death, as they did with virtuals. In both those cases, we all kept our stats.

 

I created eight challenges. The feedback was mostly positive. Folks seemed to enjoy them. I certainly enjoyed creating them and checking on them as time allowed. Now, the only proof I have of ever making these is a screen shot I snapped before they killed them.

Groundspeak's decision was most foul.

 

Exactly! Thank you!!!

[why did they delete my data?]

i was not intending to infer that they did not notify me... there notification is lame and vague at best! I have all of my photos etc...

 

Vague?!?

 

In approximately 7 days, we will be removing all traces of the Challenges functionality and related content from Geocaching.com.

 

I sure wish they'd stop beating around the bush and just come right out and say what they mean!

 

Tell me why they needed to remove my data? Tell me why they decided to stop the whole program? Other than some general reference that it was not popular or not working etc... seemed to me it was working just fine. Yes it was VAGUE!!!!!!!! WHat is the eal story... all I got from that notice was they were going to do it and that is it!

 

I am really having trouble understanding why you don't get my question... yes Vague... what made them make this drastic of a change ?! Are you truly not understanding or just twisting this to start a fight?

[why did they delete my data?]

i was not intending to infer that they did not notify me... there notification is lame and vague at best! I have all of my photos etc...

[Mingo gone again?]

When I visited there and got the smiley several months ago I saw a lot of road equipment parked near by. back hoes etc... is it possible it is a worker that will eventually move on? I don't now this location is isolated! It is obviously the same person as they keep putting concrete in the hole. The whole BS with the reviewer makes me angry.. he will not allow it to be a micro or whatever... why the hell does he have any say about someone else's cache? To follow the rules of publishing etc yes... to determine if it changes to a different container?! NO! What happens with this cache is like any other it is up to the owner.

 

Chris

 

I think you missed something. The reviewer did not want a micro there while the cache page said it was a large and he did not want everyone that visited to simply put down their own cache and then log it. What he wanted was the cache owner to go over there and maintain his cache and his cache listing. Over time, that has been sporadic at best, and at that particular time, he was not responding to the fact that it was missing. If I'm following the chronology correctly, the last three "Mingos" were not placed by the CO, but by "helpers". Face it, the CO probably hasn't been a actual cacher for years. He wants to be a part of caching history, but he can't or won't put in the necessary effort to properly do so.

 

Perhaps I did but I remember a post saying I will not allow mingo to be a micro... that is not mingo... SO maybe he was speaking in reference to the persons throw down micro... regardless...