muttz

I meant as in this being discovered outside of the geocaching community. Like being in the news. Can you see it? Popular game called Geocaching causes a flurry of concern because of a container coated with a TOXIC substance. The container was placed where CHILDREN could be EXPOSED to the DANGEROUS CHEMICAL that was covering the container. It is yet unknown whether this was a deliberate act trying to POISON someone. The media loves words like the ones in all caps.

Although the hider probably wasn't intending to cause any controversy, or raise a concern about health and safety while caching, it is poor judgement like this that raises liability concerns. An event made public like this may cause geocaching to be banned. Of course the banning would be hashed out in court, and probably end up being restricted instead of banned, but to do anything that might cause such a course of action to even be initiated is disconcerting to say the least.

Who asked for your opinion? Oh, wait a minute . . . I did. Just kiddin' around. I like you no matter what those other cachers say. Okay enough comedy. I can see how the idea would bug someone. That's why I was aking about it before starting a trend. Most of the point I was trying to make was about micros that are in an appropriate spot, but also just within the exclusion area of someone who wanted to place a regular cache in a good spot too. And since so many people just hate micros, I was just wondering if it would be a nice gesture to offer to relocate the micro to make it easier for the person who wanted to place the cache with junk, er I mean swag.

I didn't have any idea that little old me mentioning about how some people just might not be able to get out that far in the woods would inspire the attitude that it did. I suppose to clarify, not that it really needs it, I was thinking about the palcement of a few easy caches for people of varying degrees of disability. However, there would be nothing that I could do to stop those who are in great shape from adding to their numbers by visiting an easy cache that I may place. I kind of figured that there wouldn't be a huge population of geocachers that are extremely handicapped. I have experienced disability, and work with those who are at varying levels of disability. Sometimes it takes someone to facilitate a disabled person to a degree so that they can reach their full potential. What I mean is that we help get 'em started, they get stronger, more experienced, more flexible, get more stamina, all the while getting to a less of a degree of disability due to some slight facilitating. I need easy caches right now, and I am thankful for the people that have placed them. I hope to go find an easy one this week with my wife by my side. I know we can't convey every detail of every thought that we are having on this matter in these little missives that we create in this forum. I have no intent of offending anyone, but I am having a difficult time understanding why some people are getting, what seems to be, actually mad about easy caches. So, I suppose that once I get back to bench pressing over four hundred pounds I'm just gonna have to start thumpin' some heads until you see it my way. <-----In case you don't realize it, I was joking. As an aside: I was previewing my post before I placed it and discovered that I left the letter T off of the word thumpin'. Now that would have made for a very humorous post.

Ha ha. So I can't win for losing . . . Okay. Dontcha just love bureucracy? I can just never find a mold to fit into.

I was reading a thread where a cacher wanted to place a regular cache that was in a wooded area, but the only way in was blocked by a micro which was close to a parking lot. The way I understand it was that the micro was in an appropriate spot for a micro, but it happened to be right where the only entry was to where the person wanted to put the other cache. The micro hider was probably oblivious to that area being the only entry into a wooded area, but the micro was pretty much blocking the other cacher. I know my explanation isn't real clear, but I hope that you get the idea that a micro can be in an appropriate spot, but blocking the placement of what would be a good regular cache. It isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, I was just trying to be nice.

I don't know if this one would count or not, but it was really scary. He tried to put up a fight, but he started sweatin' too much and it must have got in his eyes or something. I got away unharmed. I'm just back in the game, but I have seen all kinds of things out there in the "wild" which is why I'm a little leery about seeking some caches I am reading about. I used to be out hiking so much a few years ago, and the only time I have ever been spooked at all was when I would come across another person out there. A bear just wants to be left to being a bear, and to protect its young. A person can have any agenda. I would absolutely hate it when a hunter would be looking at me from his rifle scope to see if he knew me. If it isn't obvious, the rifle was pointing at me as he was looking. I'd say the dead skunk with its entrails spread out like it swallowed a lit firecracker was the most stinkiest moment out there.

Okay now since I can get out and about more, and I have a bunch of empty film cannisters, and I can walk into the backwoods easier, I'm going to hide all of my micros way out there in the woods. Deep, oh yes very deep in the woods in some of the most difficult terrain ever . . . JUST KIDDING What I am really going to do is put on my profile page a note telling everyone that if I have hidden a micro and it is in the way of you placing a regular cache, please tell me so that I can remove the micro. What I was wondering is that if I am open to doing something like that is Groundspeak set up so that it wouldn't be too much of an issue for the other person to be able to place their cache? I was thinking about this because of reading a couple of threads where someone wanted to place a regular cache, but a micro was in the way or too close to their coords. Thanks

Briefly touched on was mentioning how some people may not be physically able to do certain caches. I think it may be prudent to consider that maybe some cachers may have hid a relatively easy cache for people who might not be able to really get out there in the woods. There are so many different types of people who participate in almost any given activity. More people participate if the factors that allow participation are more open to mass participation. If an intimate knowledge of Quantum Mechanics was needed to participate in caching it would most likely severely curtail active participation. Since this activity can be open to almost anyone I would say that we encourage participation to those who just want to enjoy the activity to whatever degree that they can participate. I do believe that some cache hides may be in poor taste or placement, but it shouldn't take too much valuable time to weed out those caches. And if the easy ones inflate the numbers of those who need to compete, then it is an undesirable side-effect, but not that bad.

NO! Don't use THAT book... the FBI will tap your phone and kick your cat on thursdays. (freedom of religion dontcha know) OBTW "freedom of religion" was NEVER meant to be "freedom FROM religion". If you are looking for that you won't find it on THIS Earth. And the only way to LEAVE is to die... Well... I guess THEN you will know true FREEDOM... or NOT Very nicely said, especially the last ten words. Anyhoo, since I have no fear of being exposed to varying and differing beliefs I don't really mind if there were an agenda. If I read Bible verses like, Romans 10:9-10 (King James Version) where it says stuff like, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation," to get coordinates for a cache it is nothing but getting coordinates for a cache unless I choose to believe and accept what it says. It's that free-will thing where I can even choose to ignore such caches completely.

Ummm, I think those kind of cachers might get arrested for exposure instead of trespassing. The Private Property thing concerns me a lot. I am just getting back into this game after a quick start and stop quite some time ago. I want to be able to hunt for the difficult caches, but will need to stick with the easy ones for awhile. As my wife and I start to feel better then we can pursue higher levels of terrain difficulty. Anyway, I chose an easy cache in a Wal-Mart lot for our second find. It felt kinda creepy lifting up that plastic skirting at the base of the lampost. It is just one of those places where I feel that management probably wouldn't appreciate it, and a police officer would probably take much more notice of me doing something like that. When we first started it was before the 9/11 attack. I don't remember having the same concerns back then. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because I do not want to be perceived as something I am not. So in closing this little rant I was wondering how much of the Private Property issue is controlled by specific guidelines or assumed guidelines--the latter being where we assume a cacher is following at least common sense?

In trying to imterpret some of the jargon used in this thread I was wondering if there is a glossary available somewhere for terms like "sock puppet." I think I know what the terms I saw mean, but then again . . .

I hope I don't ever have any need for neads either. One concept of community is the ability of the members of that community to either to continue to accept or to reject members if they step beyond the established social boundaries of the community. Sometimes it's tough to be a member of a community due to the nature of the social boundaries. This community is easy. But if someone is logging fake finds they should be archived.

I'm not sure what can get one banned, but being a pain in the butt must not be one of the things because I'm still here. <---I couldn't find an inflamed butt smiley. Heh, heh . . .He said butt smiley. Actually, I think these forums are way too lenient, so I'm gonna buy Groundspeak off of Mr. Irish (Everyone has their price), and just start banning people because it sounds like fun. Of course I would unban them after a period of time just so I could ban them again. On a serious note I would obliterate all trace of the sick freak mentioned in an earlier post even if it required a forum database and code edit. Wouldn't it be nice if there could be just one community of humans that had zero risk of such behaviors? Let's all be wise and stay safe.

In software whether web based or for use on your own computers I have always appreciated an advanced and intelligently designed search function. Take Google for example (And it ain't 'dat great of an advanced search function): you can type in a word or phrase and hit enter, then it may give you options to refine your search (As in the cases of looking up things like a prescription drug), or one can go to Advanced Search. Maybe that would be beneficial for those wanting to filter in or out every conceivable type of cache that is out there. On a web search it could be an easy feature of using radio buttons to weed through what one likes or doesn't like to be included while searching for caches to add to the hunt list. I have been looking around at the different search options because I wanted to find a specific type of cache and couldn't. No big deal since it is just caching, but the technology is available. The problems would come not in developing the software, but in adding attributes to all of the established caches. Each cache owner would have to redo there cache listings. Not too much of a problem if a notice goes out that your cache will be disabled after X number of days until its owner re-categorizes it. Then if an attribute is added later then the process would repeat. Then there would be the issue of caches being mis-categorized. I could go on and on. We could discuss all of the pros and cons until the cows come home. Excuse me someone's at the door . . .Ahhh, it's a cow. And she says she wants a pasture attribute so cachers will know not to wear patent leather shoes when hunting for her caches.

Wow. Now maybe we should start a thread asking, "Anyone Making A Living With FTF's?" I never thought of that. Makes sense though. Probably wouldn't be a bunch of hardcore cachers in most geographical regions. I've seen some nice FTF prizes mentioned too, so if the same people are getting them all of the time that would be like financing their hobby to a degree. It isn't their fault they are the only ones to usually get the FTF prizes, but I really can see how that would be annoying to those who put out the prizes.

I want an unactivated TB, so hurry up and put in a cache real close to my house. Then tell me where it's at before it is listed. A really cool FTF for me would be a laptop computer. Seriously, the geocoins and TB's would be real cool. I've never had a geocoin.

There ya go hiding caches where I have to be brought in by helicopter. I can't believe you guys trying to make caching difficult. Don't you realize that not everyone can take that high mountain air. The nerve! P.S. That is a beautiful picture. Wish I was there when it was taken.

The only problem with this SPORT GAME ACTIVITY (Circle One) is that people are the ones participating in it. If it was everyone's dogs participating food would be mandatory, a turd close to the cache would be okay, they'd sign the log by peeing on a real log, all containers would be hanidicap accessible because the dogs don't have any opposable thumbs, other cachers would be greeted with a growl and a sniff, and people would have to be the ones to originally hide the caches because dogs would just think the idea of caching too stupid to bother with except for finding the hidden food that takes us back to the first part of this very looooooooong sentence! And man, I don't even want to think about cats being geocachers! I edited to correct a mistake. Imagine that, if you will, me making a mistake!

bump. Seemed like a good read, and I got the bump idea from another thread. To stay on topic, how much has changed since this politically correct discussion? Let's see who rings in the most--the noobs or the old timers.

How about a black and blue heart. Make it the color of a nasty bruise. Nevermind . . . That's just sick.

Because of the ambiguity my original question has evolved to wondering what we could do now before there is an incident that sets a precedent that may quite possibly be one that would greatly hinder or outright stop geocaching. I have read every post in two current threads, and all of the posts in two threads about a UK incident. I realize that geocaching is a global sport or game. However, if there already exists local legislation that in any way specifically protects geocaching and its paricipants then that legislation could be used as an example for other jurisdictions. And quite possibly if someone gets sued in Anytown, USA and there is a good piece of legislation in Othertown, USA, then the person from Anytown might be able to point out that other members who participate in the activity are already protected over there in Othertown. I don't have any idea if that could be an assist or not in a situation like that. I suppose that it may be futile to be proactive because if something got enacted to protect those who place caches then someone else would want something to protect those who hunt the caches, and then we would be bogged down in endless bureaucracy. Then in areas where the activity was really popular they would probably have to have licenses to participate just like a hunting license for wild game. I suppose that it should suffice to say that if one is out hunting a cache and finds it in a tree at the edge of a cliff, and then that cacher slips while reaching for the cache and breaks a leg right there at the edge of the cliff, then the cache placer happens along and discovers the unfortunate person with the broken leg writhing in agony at the edge of that cliff, I would say it wouldn't be wise for the cache hunter to say, "I'm gonna sue you!" Edited to make the last paragraph a run on sentence 'cuz it's funnier.

I was wondering who would most likely be placing the things like the armed mousetrap, used deodorant and lipgloss, and the joint? Do you think it was people who are cachers, or people who happen upon a cache, figure out what it is, but don't plunder it? The fishing lure and the mousetrap are a little scary. Especially if anyone allows their children to be the first to open and rummage through a cache.

Hey Neighbor, How's it going down in W.V.? You know, I was going to say game until I got to thinking about how we register to look up caches to find, we have rules and guidelines, we have reviewers for placement of caches, and lots of subscribers are listed as a "Team." It also has a competition element for finding the most caches, or the most difficult, or the most by geographic region or regions. That's why I said sport instead of game. It at least has the making of a sport. Hey we're even international! I wasn't saying I wanted them to protect us, I was saying how that they can't protect us if a situation should come up. 99.9% of this game or sport is nothing but fun, I just don't want that other fraction of a percent to happen to me if I place caches. I realize that the topic can easily put anyone off. Me too! That's why I was participating in the discussion now instead of after the fact. I apologize if I opened a can of stinky worms. That was never my intent at all. My intent was to be a little proactive (Not the acne stuff sold on TV) for us to be able to protect ourselves and not to ever expect Groundspeak to be able to do it for us. P.S. - How much you want for your GPS? JUST KIDDING!

When I asked the question in the other post I wasn't expecting the response it received. The original question was just asking if anyone had ever been sued because of injury sustained during geocaching. I think that maybe many of us would like some sort of security as far as the liability concerns, but none is forthcoming due to many reasons alluded to in the replies. The big one being all of the jurisdicitons involved and their varied legislation that may even remotely apply to the activity of geocaching. The UK thread about the one geocacher being sued for a cacher being injured while hunting a cache that was placed by the defendant is an eye-opener even though the suit eventually ceased to be pursued. The person that placed the cache had begun a defense which is obvious in the posters own words HERE. I beleive that the warnings that we have on everything from plastic bags to coffee cup lids is due to litigation or the threat of, not really because the warning is necessary for the person of average intelligence. It seems that Geocaching doesn't have any, or any widely known, legal precedents yet. Once those begin to be established then the landscape of the sport will change. I think all of this talk may be the the beginning of a proactive stance concerning the liabiliy and legal issues that we face as participants. Groundspeak may be able help us with information to support us in the event of a claim, but they cannot defend us to any extent. This is where each of us is alone as participants in this sport. We have community here, community at events, community sometimes when out caching, but if something goes wrong we are only going to get well wishes. Read this for an example. Maybe an attorney could just outline some ideas to consider for a more proactive stance against these issues instead. Something that we can work with on the International, U.S. Federal, and local levels. See how big a scope of project that it would be? Still, we have to start somewhere. Preferably before a major lawsuit. I am not an attorney or even a legal expert. I am an expert on Pumpkin Bread. Use more cinnamon. tons of raisins, and walnuts!