Dick & Song Bug

GO PICASSO

I have had caches archived because people can not find them, when the caches are really there.

This is a much better idea. Sort of like what ju66l3r proposed in response to my Wow!!! category Perhaps something like the recommend cache function being discussed for geocaches: users could rate waymarks that would make interesting virtuals and then people who like seeking virtuals could query for a list of waymarks in this category. I'm not sure what quote will actually show up in this reply, I'm new at this sort of thing. At any rate my initial idea was some what a quantification of 'WOW', because of several attempts to get approval on some very "WOW" caches. I am talking about the type of cache that makes you wonder why you have not seen this all along, an answer to your question or a moment of thought 'CLARITY' that manifests itself at the waymark site. I am talking about the times god is seen(please no letters this is just an example), the light bulb turns on, or you finally get it, or any other number of reasons to qualify a waymark as an 'OFFICIAL WAYMARK". Every person has a sense of 'WOW' and this would be the category where the waymaker can try to convey thier impression of 'WOW", like a painter would on canvas the waymarker uses GPS, written description and their ability in an attempt to convey this 'WOW' and mark their "OFFICIAL WAYMARK". This is really more than 'WOW' because the waymarker needs to convey the feeling or revelation that occurs at the waymark. This is not just some way to get caches into NPS lands or any such thing.

Sure, we need listing in two places, take travel bug entries with their associasted geocaching.com log. This may be said in jest but it is fact, Waymarking seems to me to ba way to get all the work done by an individual. I, in fact, by my postings want to be such an individual. The Term 'Official Waymark' is just a name to have fun with as is in using 'Officail Geocache' stickers on regular caches. These 'Official Waymarks' should be oustanding in some way. The way could be in the description of the area or the 'feeling' of the area or just a good view or just a place you feel is special and should be classified 'Official'. It is all in fun and feeling special.

This is a place category where any body could list their 'Official" Waymark. They cna use the commercially available 'Officail Geocache' stickers on their cache or not. This could be a product lead-in. Waymarks can be of any type but must locatable with a GPSr. I think astounding places would be a good idea for this type of 'Offical' Waymark.

This is a place type waymark idea. The object is to find the fianl resting place (burial site) of a town founder. This can be in a graveyard, boothill, or other location of a marked burial site. Every town has a founder and more than likely the founder has since passed, so there should be numerous waymarks submitted. If a town has been founded by a currently living person then maybe the location of his or her current office could be used. A lot of town founders' graves sites are public knowledge others would have to be researched. To claim the waymark a description or photo of the grave marker would need to be submitted along with coords. A current living submittal could be accompinied with newspaper quotes or photos etc.. Living founders is just an add on to the "Final Resting Places" idea. It may not be a good idea to include it. We hope this submission is correct and contains the required information in the correct form. Thanks for your time. Dick & Song Bug

How about ROFL?

Not sure this one should be a valid cache. Our GPSr & other logs lead us to believe people should be climbing the fence that is topped with barbed wire to get to it. Ya couldn't put it on the street side?!?! If we're wrong, please let us know & we'll be more than happy to apologize. Just got this log entry. What makes it really funny is that the fence does not have to be climbed, go around, and that the cacher who wrote the log has over 700 finds.

Did somebody slap you with a pickle or something? You've been awfully sour lately. Put it another way. Instead of calling people out in the forums and shaking your finger at them, it is more appropriate to take it to the person instead of attacking them here, or someone who can actually do something about whatever issue concerns you. I don't object to bringing up a situation and asking for input, but it is very uncool to say "hey look at what this guy is doing." As for being sour, I've always been sour. I eat sour patch children for breakfast. But that is neither here nor there (and generally distracts from the discussion. How about a PM next time?). It is nice to see that Jerimy admits to being like me, after he ridiculed me. I wonder why he changed his "picture" for the forums? I like the way he grew out from the corner of his other picture and such cute clothing.

Umm... I didn't write that at all. KA already handled it. I was noting that if I handled it I wouldn't have been as diplomatic about it. I'm hardly known for avoiding controversy. I'm just acknowledging that KA is far more diplomatic - a trait that I envy and admire in him. And you should be thankful that he took the time to write in this topic. Regarding your listing, It is very difficult to separate the person from the listing. Your fit you had in the forums here make it very difficult to look at your listing objectively. Do you want me to decide on your cache? If so, I say don't post it. The original post from UtahAdmin was very polite and I'm sure a friendly email exchange (including details of the ruins at the location) may have changed the tide. However you decided instead to raise a stink here and far from diplomatically. I would much rather spend my time looking for boxes hidden under rocks but your post begs reply. My undiplomatic tack may be wrong and abrassive to some if not all, so be it, I can't change the past. If I read ypur reply correctly you are saying that the cache could have been approved if I would have not posted in this forum? From your indication about me rasing a stink, I am glad I did, you chastised me or atleast tried to poke fun when I mentioned stirring a hornet's nest-if the forums are open for people like me then I must be put up with. So in the long run I read your reply to say that the UTAHADMIN is holding a grudge and will not approve our Virtual Cache? Quote, "The original post from UtahAdmin was very polite and I'm sure a friendly email exchange (including details of the ruins at the location) may have changed the tide." I believe that ruins and such are now not approved by anybody according to an e-mail I received from TNADMIN, I believe that this was the sender of e-mail-I am not going to look because this is turning into an exercise in futility, TNADMIN says he received an e-mail that indicated that approvers not approve such caches. The statement from UTAHADMIN that he has not approved a Virtual in 6 months and that he did not get into the "business" of deciding WOW factor and that geocaching.com offers Prime Rib but you can't have it indicates a serious problem. That problem is not mine. In the end I can cache without gettimg approval for placed caches, caches that give coordinates for extremly unique and compelling sites. Sites that would appeal to the adventurous spirit that probably resides in a lot of geocachers. I feel that restricting such Virtual caches, that can be found by non-geocachers by asking the rangers at such areas, if you KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK. I am merely fighting, not throwing a fit, for people's right to place and find geocaches accrding to the posted guidelines in effect at time of original request. So go ahead shoot, be critical, make fun and denigrate, I still have a GPS Receiver. Thanks to all who have posted. Reading the posts have brought a sense of reality to the sensless world of cache approval.

Since you want this out in the open, let's bring it out in the open. The cache that was approved and then later unapproved wasn't listed under the account your using now, was it? Nope. I'm sure a lot of people with missing travel bugs will be interested to learn that your cache was submitted from the Clean Up Crew account. It was unapproved when people pointed out that you made substantial changes to the coordinates after it was listed. Since the website would not let you relocate the cache that far without getting reviewed again, you left the cache listed at the old coords and just posted the new ones to the cache page. Since according to you it was a physical cache with coordinates that placed it in a National Park that has banned geocaches, the reviewer archived the cache in the new location. An interesting side story is the only person that ever logged a find on the Clean Up Crew cache that you now say you hid was your current account. Now, about those travel bugs? You must get the facts straight. The cache we wanted approved is the same cache that Clean Up Crew had listed. We visited the geocache and sent the required info. Several days after our find at Ruins In A Cave I looked again for the coords searching for caches in the arera. I found the cache to be archived so I submitted a request for a virtual cache. What is with travel bugs and this cache site anyway? I see no problems. So as to why Clean Up Crews site got archived is now evident but I still think that we should have received approval for a virtual at the "same" coords.

Thanks Keystone Approver. I noted "we" and not my own personal response to your cache listing. Honestly you don't want my response due to the way you handled the initial response to your cache entry. I am far less diplomatic than Keystone Approver can be. It is amazing how some people use the excuse that they do not want to say something because they may not be diplomatic at it. It is also amazing that I can be called undiplomatic and dismissed because of that, yet some, as quoted, can state they are undiplomatic and thus not have to answer the question.

I am not upset, I am concerned that geocaching.com offers to list caches such as Virtuals but their volunteers, cache approvers, refuse to approve them. Who really cares if the approvers are doing their job or not if their "employer" does not care how they perform. Look at the replies from Jeremy, he might be considered the "employer". In the end we all find ways to do what we want to do.

I think Tara McCarthy, the author of Persuasive Writing (Grades 4-8), is actually a woman. What does this have to do with disapproving a cache after it has been approved? Are you, geocaching.com, going to aprrove Virtuals or not. If not put a moratorium on them and archive all present ones just like YOU archived mine. Do not use bait and switch like a used car salesman. If you offer Virtuals approve them.

It is pretty tacky to approve caches and then disapprove caches them also.

Maybe this is the final answer to my question> Subj: [LOG] Owner: UtahAdmin archived Before Powell (Virtual Cache) Date: 12/3/2004 9:51:47 AM Mountain Standard Time From: noreply@geocaching.com To: Sent from the Internet (Details) This is an automated message from Geocaching.com You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing. Location: Utah, United States UtahAdmin archived Before Powell (Virtual Cache) at 12/3/2004 Log Date: 12/3/2004 I sincerely apologize for this error. It was originally approved by mistake. After the media circus in the forums about your other virtual cache the other reviewers came to the consensus that this cache should not have been approved and one of them unapproved it. As a cache reviewer I feel like a waiter in a fancy restaruant that features a lot of fine steaks and seafood but the crowning jewel is the Prime Rib. Even though the Prime Rib is listed prominently on the menu we have been instructed by the owners of the restaruant not to serve it but rather steer the customers to one of the other fine dishes. The owner of the restaurant refuses to take Prime Rib off the menu and just wants us waiters to continually waste our time explaining to the customers that they can't have Prime Rib even though it is on the menu. The result is a lot of angry customers and frustrated waiters. My interest in becoming a cache reviewer was to try to prevent any more messy bomb scare incidents by having a knowledgable local person make sure no more caches are approved by an Air Force base or major Freeway bridge. I didn't sign on for the politics of judging the Wow factor of people's virtual cache submissions so for the past 6 months I have not been approving any virtuals. Again, I am very sorry for the hassle. If you really want to list your virtuals then you can get them listed on Navicache. Visit this log entry at the below address: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...40-b75b8b468e17 Visit GCM3AK http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a9-18e98190f231 Profile for UtahAdmin: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=ea...c8-72144a2565ec

I couldn't find a whole lot of books on persuasive arguments, but maybe there's something on Google. You can see why he speaks in the third person.

Thanks Keystone Approver. I noted "we" and not my own personal response to your cache listing. Honestly you don't want my response due to the way you handled the initial response to your cache entry. I am far less diplomatic than Keystone Approver can be. I guese I am not diplomatic either, so where does that put the both of us. Why are so many replies clouded with platitudes?

At last the answer. I think too many people "get the impression" that a question is answered when they stop trying to answer. In this case why didn't UTAHADMIN say as much in his denial note? I also like the part about "it is generaly understood", well I did not understand. In these forums anything should be able to be discussed. If you had stated first off what you said in your last post, the answer to my question, I would not have been a top 10 poster. Everybody should have a job and they should perform that job well.

Many degrees are worthless. Do we still know what this cache listing is all about? Copy & Paste it here so we can tell you why it wasn't approved. It has been a while since your last post, I have cut and pasted the web page as you suggested. Have you read it yet? I await your answer on why the cache was not approved.

An e-mail I received from UTAHADMIN: Subj: [GEO] From UtahAdmin: Glad I don't read the forums. Date: 11/23/2004 3:24:36 PM Mountain Standard Time From: utahadmin@[domain removed] Sent from the Internet (Details) --This message was sent through the Geocaching.com web site-- I would respond but anything I said would add fuel to the fire and give you more material to splash all over the forums. User's Profile: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=ea...c8-72144a2565ec ------------------------------------------------------------ Edited by moderator to remove e-mail address. Not a good idea to expose an e-mail to spammers by posting it in the forums.

Da nada, Zoloft works better for some I have heard.

I appreciate your candid references. Humor is one thing that some people are good at, do you have another forte? Another question, If a geocacher finds a cache in the woods and signs log book and does not log it online, did he still find it? In the same vain, If you play a record in the woods and nobody hears it, does the band still get royalties? Or, If your computer crashes in the woods and nobody reboots it, is your data still safe? What a fun wasted morning on this thread, don't tell my employer.

It is nice to see a reply with useful information. Thanks for all the help.

I agree, but what is going on?