Coldnosed

I don't know who "they" is. If "they" doesn't include a reviewer, this CO was bullied into archiving this cache. Provided permissions and everything else is in order. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If it's true they were bullied to archive a cache inappropriately, that's bad, but whether they were or not has absolutely nothing to do with the Needs Archive log type. The point I was trying to make was that it could be possible that a CO could have a sour taste in their mouth toward NA logs for legitimate reasons. Sure you are going to have COs come in here upset that the guy who would pull the trigger on the NA beat the guy with the throw-down to the cache. I believe there are some, maybe isolated, cases where a CO asking or wanting to discuss NA logs deserves a little more discussion than the standard "Cache ownership isn't for everyone" just ahead of the dog pile. That is why I offered how I would have handled this particular log, both for the CO and further discussion from the community. I understand that none of us have all the facts. I'm going out on a limb and giving the CO the benefit of the doubt, I don't think that happens around here quite enough. If it is true that the CO has been bullied (read that choosing to archive so they will be left alone) into archiving a cache it has everything to do with the tool that was used to do it. I agree, I don't believe that there was any reviewer involvement either. I do believe from the logs that more conversations went on between the CO and the finders. I don't know what a wildlife buffer zone is but it is possible that the ones who logged the NA have a much broader definition of what it really is and want to force that definition on to others. I can see the CO choosing to archive just to be left alone because I have had similar dealings with those types of people else where. I also agree about correcting coordinates being the better option on the other cache. Yes, exactly. Given the OP's attitude towards all of this, do you really think he would have buckled like that if he actually had landowner permission to place that cache? Sounds to me like he was just trying to save face by blaming someone else rather than admitting his own mistake. That is certainly possible. The CO talks about volunteering and cleaning up in the area so permissions very well could be in place. Personally, from the logs I have read I think this CO really wants to do the right thing, and is just frustrated because they don't/didn't know how to do the things that the finders are demanding from them.

Actually, the thicker skin comment was part of what caused me to reply. My point isn't that you just suck it up and take it. My point is that it's nothing bad to begin with. Yeah, I agree with that approach, although I wouldn't have objected to the NA approach, either. But the reason I like the private e-mail here is that, unlike most NA cases, this isn't a public discussion: you're asking the CO privately to please remove the cache instead of demanding publicly that it be removed. That leaves the way open to some discussion and flexibility which is the friendly approach even if, in the end, you don't think you're going to be able to provide any leeway. What I mean by getting a thicker skin is realizing that everyone isn't going to handle things the same way as me and vowing to not let it bother me. It would seem that even you agree that in some, maybe even isolated, cases there is a more "friendly" way to handle things than using a NA, even when it is appropriate. We agree. Here is a needs maintenance log from a local cache. I would have used Needs Archived and gladly received one in this case. There was a change in property owners. From a more distant cache. (not picking on anyone) A found it log. Well, nobody did ask them. Honestly in my opinion there are thousands out there that fit that "are not in a good spot" description, but others enjoy them.They followed that up with a NA. If this were my cache I would roll my eyes, and post a note reminding the reviewer of my permissions and any thing that applies to a wildlife buffer zone. I might also ask the reviewer to update the coordinates. The CO did something similar in this case and it should have been a done deal. In this case it didn't end there. There is no note from the reviewer, but it is clear that some private conversations went on, and the cache was disabled. Personally I wouldn't have done that without the recommendation of the reviewer. That may or may not have happened. If there was no contact from the reviewer and this cacher continued to badger me I would get headquarters involved, or asked for reviewer intervention. A found it log after it was disabled. the archive log. I don't know who "they" is. If "they" doesn't include a reviewer, this CO was bullied into archiving this cache. Provided permissions and everything else is in order.

I have not looked at and am not commenting on a specific cache. I want to address this. A cache is NEVER archived due to one finder's opinion. It's archived due to one finder posting an NA, perhaps, but the reviewer's opinion also comes into play. If the reviewer thought the NA was unwarranted, the cache would not be archived. You (and the OP) seem to post as if archives automatically follow NA logs. They don't. There's a human (and sometimes a dog) who consciously does the archiving. Thus more than one person - one being very experienced - have the opinion that the cache needed archiving. I understand that. In the particular cache I was referring to, the CO archived it maybe out of frustration? I don't know.

Well, you should do business that way. The NA is a perfectly natural way for someone to point out to the reviewer that the cache needs to be archived. In your case, you agreed it deserved to be archived, so I can't imagine why it made you feel bad. If, in another case, you disagree that there's a problem with the cache, then you simply explain why in an OM, presenting your position in a way that shows you've seriously considered what the person posting the NA was saying. Worse case, the NA is posted in a nasty way and perhaps is even obviously invalid or self serving, but don't waste time worrying about that. If the NA is justified, there's no reason to care how badly someone expressed it, and if the NA isn't justified, just answer politely. I've never run into any case where it helps to react to nasty by being nasty. It would seem that you overlooked my next sentence that stated that I was over it and have grown a thicker skin. Here is an example where I could have logged a NA but didn't. I noticed a new cache placed near some sensitive assets for a company that I am one of the board of directors. I loaded it up and went for a search, not with the intent to actually find it but to look for potential problems with seekers going places the company would rather they didn't. The cache was not on company property but after visiting with the manager and describing where it was he had some security concerns and asked if I could do anything to get it moved or archived. I fired off an email to the CO explaining the situation. She was a little disappointed but disabled the cache immediately after receiving the email, and was willing to change up her hide to the managers satisfaction. Everyone is happy now. I was ready to log a NA had the email gone ignored but didn't need to. I understand that this is much different than a neglected cache. I would much rather try to solve problems without getting a third party involved, and will continue to do so if at all possible.

Pup Patrol, I did notice that there were more than one with coordinates off. I believe one was 50' off under trees and archived due to one finders opinion on the location. Trees overhead automatically have me expanding my search area. Still as far as anyone here knows the OP was just exposed to that information today. Unless it was in a log that was deleted. I did not read every log on every hide, but I didn't see anyone offer the OP a link to fix it until you did today. Thank you by the way, the links you have posted for others have helped me out too. There is a difference between demanding something be done, and helping to get it done, one is more productive than the other. From what I have seen as far as changing the coordinates go they didn't know how to adjust them themselves. Rather than someone stepping up to help rectify the situation they pawned that responsibility off on a reviewer who is already giving up much of their valuable time to benefit the rest of us. I could see the dog pile starting, and it seems to me that all too often seekers are held blameless unless they are new.

I believe that the OP said that they were going to remove that cache with the bad coordinates Sunday to make room for someone who wants to hide one nearby, nonissue. They were just given a link on how to correct them today as far as anyone here knows. Something that could, maybe even should have been provided in one of the demanding NM logs. Some good advise to help smooth things over above but from what I see on "a place to return" is a bunch of seekers that need to be introduced to the ignore feature or learn they don't have to find every cache. For all I know it is a group that has a personal issue with the OP. I see many threads here that turn toward bashing the people who give of their time and resources (read that CO's and reviewers}. As far as being critical of seekers we seem to be confined to the way they log their finds. Just as there are CO's that are difficult to appease there are finders too. So out of 28 hides the only problems you all can find is bad coordinates on one that the OP may have been exposed to the information to fix the first time today and maybe an under rated difficulty level.

I got a NA on a cache. At the time I looked at it as receiving a letter about my dog craping on the neighbors lawn with a CC to a lawyer with no previous attempts to rectify the situation. The NA was appropriate, but it still made me mad because I just don't do business that way. I'm over it now and have grown a thicker skin. Even with my few finds I have found smalls that should have been listed as micro. I have seen over and under rated T and D. It doesn't bother me, but it looks like it obviously bothers some. It looks to me like you have a group of "clear the map" seekers that have in their mind what "they would do" or "what should" be done. It looks to me as if you are being responsive just not in a way to appease some. Maybe this thread should be titled "under use of the ignore feature". Maybe you should just contact them and see what they need to fill the T/D grid and adjust accordingly.

I kind of took the question to mean how does it feel to have the hunt spoiled, rather than as an accusation.

You need to go to the garmin website and download the plug in so your computer can talk to the gps. (if you haven't already) It downloaded for me when I registered my device on their website. It doesn't work when using the Chrome web browser.

Around here it is common to see a cache placed in a remote area. After the first person to log online a cacher that was along for the ride when the cache was placed will log it. Deferring FTF to the cacher who wasn't there to see where the cache was placed. I have not looked to see if they call their intensions out in the paper log though.

On a puzzle cache: The CO of this cache is pretty particular in maintaining their caches. It wouldn't surprise me if they had checked the cache three times in that year and a half.

Other than entering coordinates manually, the only way to get new waypoints on your etrex 30 in the field is if there is another person with a compatible unit that could share, waypoints they have downloaded to their unit, with you wirelessly. The position moves a little on all units when standing still, pretty much normal.

The blue dot is the pin for the destination. Once you get close enough that you do not need the map back out of it (top right button) this will put you at the main menu. Select compass and follow the arrow/pointer, it will also tell you how far you are from the coordinates.

Someone posted in his found it log scolding previous finders. Maybe it is time to expand that opinion to travelbugs on hand? I hope they get found by someone who knows what they are.

I'm thinking that the ones who are experiencing the inconvenience are not seeing the benefit. Farmers and ranchers generally are not involved with retail sales. What little benefit they see from potential tax revenue for the county may not be worth the costs to them. From what I'm experiencing the people who live in the cities around me expect the rural people to take the hit in quality of life for things that mostly benefit the cities and those who live there.

It doesn't take too many times of some idiot cutting a fence, driving through a crop, driving on a private lane (especially when muddy), shooting up equipment, leaving trash everywhere, theft, and just disrespecting private property in general to make people hyper sensitive to what strangers are doing in the area. The land should be treated like gold, have your tried to buy any? If you come to a gate that is closed you close it after you go through, private or public land. It is there for a reason. How would you like to have to drive the cattle (that are not always visible from the gate) back to where they belong each time someone who doesn't know better goes through. The land owners (who act like two year olds) could just as easily be saying folks from the city sure have a huge sense of entitlement to what I bought and paid for, and continue to pay property tax on. It may not be geocachers who caused the problem, but I certainly understand their concerns.

My 20 looks just like that if I back off a bit ... It starts around the 8 mile scale. I do have a few mountains around so it shows better.

The good thing about our snakes, that can get you, is they buzz first. Watch where you put your feet and hands especially when you get out of the car. Make plenty of noise to let the snakes know you are coming. You could run into them just about anywhere, but be particularly vigilant in rocky areas. I spent a lot of time out in that Lund area years ago, mostly in the winter though so snakes were not an issue. There are some nonvenomous varieties that look similar watch for the flat wide head and buzzing tail. If you encounter one just back away and go around. I hope this helps some. Thanks for choosing to come to Utah. I hope you have a safe and pleasant trip.

Maybe I'm getting there a different way or the wrong place all together. I'm on a laptop. When I go to my profile, not the public one that everyone can see, and I can click on my "trackables inventory" or "trackables collection". There is a grey bar/line that labels the columns (Trackable name, owner, last log ect..), the drop down box is right above that on the right and at the bottom of the list on the right. I could very well be confused about what list you are looking at.

You have an option of how those trackables are displayed in you inventory. There is a dropdown box on the top right and bottom right of the list. If you select to sort by owner all of your trackable items should be grouped together. I don't know if that would help you or not.

I know exactly how you feel. People who are used to others parking their car in the street next to their home, do not understand the concern raised by that behavior out in the country. Generally speaking if an unknown vehicle stops along the road near my home they are most likely having car trouble, lost, or up to no good. Edit: removed irrelevant content.

Clear plastic containers like .... http://shop.geocaching.com/default/geocaching-supplies/cache-containers/larger/medium-pelican-hide-a-cache-kit.html or http://shop.geocaching.com/default/geocaching-supplies/cache-containers/micro/rotolog-750.html

You may need to change the coordinate format on google earth to match the format you are trying to input. Just a guess though.

What if there were a handful of flags that a group of geocachers could carry (one) with them while on the property? This would allow the property owner to confirm with a glance what they are doing. Have the finial near the start as previously recommended to make returning the flag simple.

Greganon, in answer to your original question, for me, no it isn't worth it. It isn't a hardship to pay but that doesn't mean that I don't expect value from my money spent. I prefer to review the individual cache before I search it out and load them individually on to my GPS. So the PQ's and all that are pretty much worthless to me. The only thing that pushed me to get mine was the PMO caches in an area that I like to frequent. Most of those that I have found so far have been a pill bottle under a rock by a sign that happens to advertise the cache name. I have yet to find a cache large enough to know if the quality of swag differs though. The business model is what it is. I don't have a problem with most of the premium features, and those who find them of value. The PMO caches are a bit of a rub on me though because they are being used as a tool to nudge more people into premium membership who otherwise might not consider it. Here we have a free app that anyone can use that isn't linked to a verified e-mail account. Through ignorance of those users caches are being mishandled and become higher maintenance than it should be. The way to escape that is to make them PMO. They have to make up for the lost revenue in trackable sales that the free app brought about somehow right? I have yet to see advertisement from an outside source on GC.com. Maybe it is a regional thing, but that makes me believe that they do well enough in the store and premium memberships that they really don't need that additional outside income. There are worse problems to have.