TillaMurphs

Thanks everyone for your replies. mloser, Yes – you are correct. I am looking for more information in the hope of also locating the original chiseled square that might be associtated with Chiseled SQUARE OFFSET . I was assuming that Chiseled SQUARE OFFSET was an eccentric and your message lends me to believe my assumption might be valid. Also, like you mentioned, I have had some luck with finding earlier USGS information in Google Books and in hard copy books referring to “leveling”. But it seems like the info I have been finding is all before 1920. I was hoping there might be some information somewhere on the marks that are as new as the mid 30’s. I will have a look at the link you included and see what I can find. Thanks

Anyone know of an online source that might have additional USGS description for this station mark? MU0416 MU0416 *********************************************************************** MU0416 DESIGNATION - CHISELED SQUARE OFFSET MU0416 PID - MU0416 MU0416 STATE/COUNTY- NV/HUMBOLDT MU0416 COUNTRY - US MU0416 USGS QUAD - GREELEY FLAT (1980) MU0416 MU0416 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL MU0416 ______________________________________________________________________ MU0416* NAD 83(1994) POSITION- 41 42 10.72163(N) 117 14 42.54369(W) ADJUSTED MU0416* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 1807. (meters) 5928. (feet) SCALED MU0416 ______________________________________________________________________ MU0416 GEOID HEIGHT - -18.15 (meters) GEOID12A MU0416 LAPLACE CORR - -0.68 (seconds) DEFLEC12A MU0416 HORZ ORDER - SECOND MU0416 MU0416 MU0416_MARKER: X = CHISELED CROSS MU0416_SETTING: 80 = SET IN A BOULDER MU0416_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO MU0416+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION MU0416 MU0416 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By MU0416 HISTORY - 1934 MONUMENTED USGS MU0416 MU0416 STATION DESCRIPTION MU0416 MU0416'DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1934 (CP) MU0416'STATION IS ON TOP OF RIDGE, THE FIRST ONE NORTH OF THE LITTLE MU0416'HUMBOLDT RIVER 100 YARDS EAST OF THE PARADISE VALLEY-CALICO MU0416'RANCH ROAD AT A POINT 26.2 MILES NORTHEAST OF PARADISE VALLEY MU0416'AND 16.2 MILES SOUTH OF THE CALICO RANCH, AND IS 0.9 MILE NORTH OF MU0416'THE LITTLE HUMBOLDT RIVER. MU0416' MU0416'STATION WAS ESTABLISHED BY A FIELD PARTY OF THE U.S. GEOLOGICAL MU0416'SURVEY AND OBSERVED AT THEIR REQUEST. THE STATION MARK IS A MU0416'CHISELED CROSS IN A BOULDER. NO REFERENCE MARKS ESTABLISHED.

Interesting text arrangement. Here is a 1955 USGS mark (JL0884) that looks like yours (photo by jkselby):

Wow – LSU fan – excellent comprehensive reply! Based on this post and your many previous informative posts I nominate you to be our Educational Ambassador to the World for all new recruits. WHV714, - I would just like to add one thing. If you see that the Power Squadron has listed a benchmark as “Mark Not Found” do not automatically think that the mark is not there. Many, many times when the Power Squadron has listed a mark as “Not Found” other people have later found the mark. Do not let a Power Squadron “Not Found” dissuade you from looking for a benchmark – it could still be there.

wister6813, Thank you for sharing your story. I enjoyed it and enjoyed seeing the KATY disk. It is great that the disks have survived the removal of the railroad. And yeah – that Foxtrot does seem to get around. Thanks.

DukeOfURL01, Unfortunately when the USGS uses the word “tablet” it is not as exciting or as unique as it sounds. In USGS terminology, “tablet” is just another word for “disk”. If you have seen a USGS bench mark disk set in a rock or concrete or masonry you have seen a tablet. In the following link, page 4 has photos of tablets and page 6 has a description. (If the link works properly, just scroll up slightly to see page 4 and down slightly to see page 6. Look under the "Bench Marks" section of page 6 for the text description.) USGS Book

Kayakbird. I spent about 4 hours going through the full list of the A-Z 391 string and analyzing each of them for the possibility of iron disks (including armchair Google Earth searching). Other than your J 391 find there are no geocaching.com finds for any of these. I will e-mail you an Excel spreadsheet of my analysis with details for each one. C, D and E are described as "BRONZE" in their datasheets. I would say A, B and N hold the best potential for still existing and being accessible (during our March trip we saw the witness post for N but did not have time to look for the disk - drat). Although, A and B might be bronze since C,D and E are listed as Bronze. X, Y and Z are great possibilities, and Y is described as an “Iron Disk” – the only problem is the only realistic access is via water from the Snake River. (… if only someone had a boat or a KAYAK…?) The TillaMurphs

Hi again woodstrider, Here is a thread that disusses the "gold" benchmarks that people have found. Most of these (in the linked thread) were in the NGS and geocaching.com databases, but certainly there are many that are not. Gold Colored Disks

Congratulations woodstrider on your finds - with bonus points for picking them off a map! It sounds like you found some Aluminum Bronze disks. Did the disks look similiar to this?: (HO0158)

Curse you kayakbird. Ever since you mentioned these some months back I have been trying to find one. No success so far. Could it be another obscure kayakbird term or am I just obtuse? “P 51 activity”? Does that mean there is a Mustang in the area? By the way - nice find DragonsWest

Congratulations on your first benchmark ghosthunterlogan! You picked a good one – it is old. Here is a link to the mark that topflitejr1 researched and identified that is your find: JU0725. Happy Hunting! Feel free to ask questions. There are a good bunch of people on this forum.

I have never seen a Carsonite post embedded in rock before. That is a new one to me. RC0170 has a metal post set in rock:

I keep all of our finds and did-not-finds in an Excel spreadsheet. They are listed chronologically and have columns for all of the data that I find important (date found, date monumented, monumenting agency, etc., etc.). There are about 20 columns total. I also have a column with a clickable hyperlink to the NGS datasheet and one with a clickable hyperlink to the Geocaching website page. I also color code cells to identify DNFs and Found-But-Not-Yet-Logged and Destroyed, etc. This works out very well. The file is portable and I can use it on any computer that I have with me. It is also easily shareable - and sortable. In retrospect, a GSAK database would also have been a good way to go, but I am happy with the spreadsheet.

Hi Harry, Bummer. It looks like, at least in 1966, the mark was on city property. I would think that as long as you didn’t go under or over any fences or past any No Trespassing signs, that you should be able to look around with no problem? What did the neighborhood watch guys say when you explained what you were doing?

Hi Woodstrider, I don’t know for sure but I would guess that, based on the typical distribution of marks, at least the majority of these are going to be disks. There are many, many, many marks out there that are not in the NGS (National Geodetic Survey) database. Some of the marks in the park are probably USGS (United States Geological Survey) marks. Some USGS marks are in the NGS database but thousands of them are not. You can write (snail mail) to the USGS and request data sheets for marks in a specific area and they will go to their filing cabinets, make paper copies, and mail them to you. I, and others on here, have done this and we do hunt these types of marks. Also, there is a small chance that some of these marks might be available in a local online database for the appropriate county (Orange or Rockland). (Where I live, about 35% of the counties have online databases.) If you find some of these marks, you can log them on Waymarking.com in the “U.S. Benchmarks” category. It looks like there aren’t any Harriman State Park marks on Waymarking.com yet. It looks like this is the closest benchmark on Waymarking: Nearby Waymarking benchmark Maybe Black Dog Trackers or Papa Bear NYC will see your post and chime in. They are both benchmark veterans with experience in your neck of the woods. Good luck with the hunting and please get back to us if you find any of these!

Here are a few more BPR disks: Here is a 1940 disk near Happy Hollow, Oregon. RD0958 Here is a 1934 reset in the same area as the disk above. RD0961. Hard to photograph when half is covered with white paint. Here is an UNKNOWN date in Arizona. ES0161

It took awhile, but this one did get updated. MEL Thanks for alerting me to this kayakbird. I sent Deb an e-mail a few months ago informing her of the situation for CM1022. But, darn it, Edrick is correct, this is still a “destroyed” datasheet. I am confused.

Is this the one you found? If so, it is too new to be in the geocaching database. You could always log it on Waymarking.com if that is something you are interested in. Note that there is a mention of 3320 E in a couple of the logs for AI8315 even though the mark you found is NOT AI8315. Both Papa-Bear-NYC and m&h are benchmark veterans that have been to this location and could probably provide more information. Happy Benchmarking

Hi Pirates, I found this: T I D A L B E N C H M A R K S BENCH MARK STAMPING: 3320 E 2006 DESIGNATION: 3320 E MONUMENTATION: Survey disk VM#: 18187 AGENCY: National Ocean Service PID: SETTING CLASSIFICATION: concrete setps The bench mark is a disk set on the north side of the park and south of the Bar Harbor pier set in the second step off of West Street located 48.27 m (158.4 ft) east of the center line of Main Street, 13.62 m (44.7 ft) south of the center line of West Street, 0.57 m (1.9 ft) north from the top of stairs, and 0.46m (1.5 ft) west of the east edge of stairs, 0.28 m (0.9 ft) above West Street set in concrete steps on the south side of West Street and on the north side of the park. Here: NOAA Tidal Benchmarks list for Bar Harbor If this is the one you found it appears to be set in 2006 so it would not be in the geocaching.com database since their snapshot of the database is more than 10 years old. (Wow, I have never corresponded with a pirate before).

That is not good. Let's hope it is only temporary.

That is great history. (I confess, I had to look up the definitions for “packet boat” and “snag boat”). It is interesting to find out the origin of Tri station names. I have some for which I don’t think I will ever to be able to determine the source of the name. Sorry about the fire danger worries there. In Oregon we currently have 2 fires in/near Harney county. One of them is the largest blaze in the country the other is threatening the Historic French Glen Hotel. Not too far from one of your recent benchmark trips. Here is a link - Oregon Fires

Chicknlips45, I don’t have a concrete answer to your question but I want to say NICE JOB! Great persistence on looking for (and finding) the mark, great pictures and a well written description. Thumbs up.

We found a circa 1900 USGS vertical control mark. It appears to be listed in the NGS database as being monumented by the USGS in 1946 as a horizontal control mark. We found this mark located exactly per the box score from two 1946 RMs. Everything about this bronze-cap-riveted-on-a-wrought-iron-post indicates that it is the 1946 station mark. Would the 1946 crew have found this old mark in place and just used it as horizontal control? Or could they have pulled it up from the general area and re-used it as the station mark? The only discrepancy about this mark is that the 1946 monumentation says… QC0882 STATION DESCRIPTION QC0882 QC0882'DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1946 (DHK) QC0882'THE STATION IS A U.S.G.S. BENCH MARK LOCATED ALONG THE MAIN ROAD QC0882'ABOUT 15.0 MILES WEST-SOUTHWEST OF BAKER. 0.7 MILE WEST OF THE QC0882'MC EWEN POST OFFICE. 45 PACES NORTH OF AND APPROXIMATELY 30 FEET QC0882'HIGHER THAN THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN ROAD, A BRONZE DISK ON QC0882'TOP OF A 4 INCH IRON PIPE SET IN CONCRETE AND NOT STAMPED. mentioning that it is “Not Stamped”. The mark is clearly stamped “4168 BC”. Is it possible that they meant that the 1946 crew did not add any stamping? I just wondered if you had any thoughts on how a vertical control mark could end up as a horizontal mark (or maybe I am totally missing something)? Here is some more of the datasheet: QC0882 *********************************************************************** QC0882 DESIGNATION - MCEWEN QC0882 PID - QC0882 QC0882 STATE/COUNTY- OR/BAKER QC0882 COUNTRY - US QC0882 USGS QUAD - PHILLIPS LAKE (1984) QC0882 QC0882 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL QC0882 ______________________________________________________________________ QC0882* NAD 83(1991) POSITION- 44 42 21.13939(N) 118 07 01.99866(W) ADJUSTED QC0882* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 1270.17 (+/-2cm) 4167.2 (feet) VERTCON QC0882 ______________________________________________________________________ QC0882 HORZ ORDER - FIRST QC0882 VERT ORDER - THIRD ? (See Below) QC0882 I HAVE SNIPPED A PORTION OUT HERE QC0882|---------------------------------------------------------------------| QC0882| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az | QC0882| dddmmss.s | QC0882| CD7965 MCEWEN RM 1 48.52ft 14.788 METERS 105.3 deg | QC0882| CD7966 MCEWEN RM 2 47.82ft 14.577 METERS 281.6 deg | QC0882| CD7964 MCEWEN AZ MK 127.8 deg | QC0882|---------------------------------------------------------------------| QC0882 QC0882_MARKER: Z = SEE DESCRIPTION QC0882_SETTING: 0 = UNSPECIFIED SETTING QC0882 QC0882 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By QC0882 HISTORY - 1946 MONUMENTED USGS QC0882 Here is the disk and the post: And here is one of the RMs: More photos, including an exceprt from a 1901 USGS bulletin, can be found here: QC0882 Thanks.

Here are my uneducated opinions: - It is Third Order Horizontal and it mentions “FIRST OBSERVED”. I thought those two things were good indicators that it is indeed an Intersection Station? - My guess on the “designated” thing: I believe they are just using the “ - - “s in place of quotes and they are just saying that the typical nomenclature used when discussing this structure is that it is referred to as the “Fort Mountain Fire Tower”. - My guess is that when they say “centerline” that they were referring to the very center of a horizontal cross section of the tower and then that point is projected up to the top to be the intersection point (if the structure is square, draw diagonals from the corners and the intersection of the diagonals is the “centerline” – then project that point up to the top). It would be interesting to see pictures of the structure and the pins. It looks like a great find. From snooping around online, it looks like this is now purely a stone structure. However, there are indications that it used to have a wooden lookout cab on the top that had a roof that came to a point (in the center). I am still guessing that that top point is what they meant by the “centerline”.

Great stone! Any idea how old it is? That is a lonely looking mark. Great scenery in your pictures kayakbird.