Uncle Alaska

You could pre-label the first scrap of paper with FTF and leave space for the person to sign. Kind of like the log sheets that have the first entry space labeled FTF. Although I suppose that won't prevent later cachers from thinking they found it first if they don't or can't sort through the paper scraps. Clear container might solve this??

Maybe if you also provide the scraps of paper? Though some COs expect the finders to replenish and repair their hidden caches these days...seems like this would be the perfect cache type for them, until the container was overfilled with scraps...

Any reasonable person would consider digging up rocks AND digging holes to be destructive. Just spent a bunch of time out in the Arizona and Nevada deserts...I know that all of those rocks didn't pile themselves at each cache location naturally. Looking around, most of the rocks occur in a half buried state.

I always thought it was Suspicious Pile Of Rocks. Maybe if you stack 'em, they've been SPORed. I guess it is ok to dig up a bunch of rocks and pile them, but god forbid you stick a piece of pvc into the sand...

Come on now ... The nanos you're referring to don't have to have a couple of shovels full of dirt spread around beside them from the hole that's been dug like the one in the video! Buried is buried. If those little nanos meet guidelines, so does any other container. As much as those annoy me, I displace more dirt just walking to most caches and I'm willing to let those types slide on the rules. I think if something like a hand spade or shovel is necessary to install it, then that would be roughly where I would draw the line. looks like the ones in question are buried in sand, no tools required to dig the hole, so let's just let them slide too. Besides, it's out in the desert anyway. Have you ever came across one of those little nanos where the whole area has been raked up by geocachers looking for the cache? Not much dirt was moved hiding it, but a bulldozer was used to search for it. Sure, let's just let them slide, they do no harm. Yep, also run across areas denuded and the cache is not even buried. Very often I find caches due to the "stomping of vegetation" effect. When you get close, stop look around, and head to the area "hammered" by cacher footstomps...Usually there are about 2-5 well stomped areas, with the cache within reach at one of them. With containers at ground level look for disturbed dirt, and the cache is usually nearby...pretty common to see leaves and dirt raked over, especially if the cache is missing.

Know the GC code?? Curious about this cache (I have a UV cache of my own)

It would be one thing if you invited me into your very home, gave me food, and then I belched...However, you invited me (and the entire geocaching community) to search for a lock-n-lock hidden behind a tree. You did so knowing that there are many different types of people in the world. Why these discussions always end up with the analogy that somehow every finder is eating a three course dinner at the CO's house and being rude, I will never understand. Also, somehow, the CO is the only side of the equation spending any time or money...When a finder could be spending loads of both while travelling through areas hundreds or thousands of miles from their home. There is a yin/yang relationship between a finder and hider, no need to heap importance onto either side. Just take them as they are and try not to lose sleep over the fact that there are many different types of people out there. Some will disapoint, some may not... First... most of my caches are a tad more complex than a lock & lock hidden behind a tree. But whatever. Yes, you are right. There are as many kinds of people in this world as there are people in this world. I concur. We can't expect them to act in any particular way. People are people. And my panties are not really in a bundle over this as much as you may think (I tend to go commando anyway). But that doesn't mean that I can't state my opinion here, and that by doing so, perhaps one potential TFTC logger will think "Hey... he has a point. He did put that here for me to find. Maybe I should recognize that in my log a little!" If I say nothing, I get nothing. If I speak up, I may get something. I chose to speak up. You can chose not to. But don't tell me not to. Not suppressing opinions nor telling anyone "not to"...just observing and offering another side to the coin.

It would be one thing if you invited me into your very home, gave me food, and then I belched...However, you invited me (and the entire geocaching community) to search for a lock-n-lock hidden behind a tree. You did so knowing that there are many different types of people in the world. Why these discussions always end up with the analogy that somehow every finder is eating a three course dinner at the CO's house and being rude, I will never understand. Also, somehow, the CO is the only side of the equation spending any time or money...When a finder could be spending loads of both while travelling through areas hundreds or thousands of miles from their home. There is a yin/yang relationship between a finder and hider, no need to heap importance onto either side. Just take them as they are and try not to lose sleep over the fact that there are many different types of people out there. Some will disapoint, some may not...

PS- Nowhere am I encouraging or promoting "lazy logging" (not sure how to define that, as everyone would most likely have a slightly different interpretation)... I am encouraging CO's not to lose sleep over a "lazy log". Seems to me that many of the "problems" presented in this forum are heaped onto the "new cachers"...I would think time might be better spent through positive reinforcement and mentoring, rather than complaining and blaming.

You mean like adding fresh log sheets, plastic baggies, o-rings and cleaning out the goo?? Something I do in so many caches that are abandoned by both active and non-active cachers alike?

So...the log IS all about propping up the CO's ego....good to know.

Since when? How did this event I attended get approved then? Or this one?

It comes across as encouraging people to treat caches like all that matters is the smiley, and that cache owners (especially those that provide a good experience) don't matter. What matters is very unique to each finder. What matters to a finder could be a very complex aggregation of any number of things (smiley, time with friends, exercise, personal goals, mood, etc.). For me it is about the experience (usually) and whether I choose to fully articulate that experience to the CO (and others) should not cause any more or less consternation.

No, because it was not invented yet as an acronym in common usage...there were also only 1-2 (or none) caches in each town, thus giving a cacher lot's of time to contemplate the experience. I can walk in a four mile radius from my current residence and find hundreds of caches...not all of them are worthy of a thousand word essay. I also didn't see people wringing their hands and "churning their stomach acid" over some of the most minute changes or differences in the game back then either. I truly think a good portion of the people who regularly visit these forums; do so because they love to argue (over anything, no matter how insignificant). My point above is, why worry about it so much...I can write a log masterpiece for a cache and the only person who knows how sincere and truthful I am about the experience is me. So why should a cache owner have so much anxiety over how it is written?? Some people are into numbers...some not. Some go through different phases and shake up the way they cache...some will refuse to change. Some are fluent and exquisite in their ability to write a commanding log...some are not. Some have the time and energy to write a short story...some do not. Some are hiders, some are finders, some dabble in both. Some use GPSRs only, some use phones, some use both, some use only paper maps...I can continue ad nauseum. My point? There are so many thousands (millions?) of permutations on how one might approach their caching experience...don't get hung up churning your stomach acid if somebody is not doing it the same as you or your group is.

One could do even better..write 15, unique, 3 paragraph logs. Logs that each tell a unique little story, heap praise all over the cache and CO, and say that the cache is in great shape. Then rotate them from cache to cache...doesn't mean they are more or less sincere than TFTC! Could even take the time to make up individual 5-8 paragraph masterpiece logs, without even remembering the cache...all to fool the owner into believing you thought their cache was the "bees knees"... Should one go to such lengths to please an individual or group?? Does every log have to be a short story? Am I suppose to write a short story on certain caches that everyone else thinks is great (and has tons of fav points), yet I think was dull or mundane?

Nope, just one attribute needed and it exists...the wireless beacon attribute. Doesn't matter what you use to receive it.

I thought the chirp rules were: If the cache requires chirp to find (with no alternative method) then it must be a "?" type...If you want to use a chirp with any other cache types (trad, multi, etc) then there must be another method other than the chirp available.

(IMO) Using air photos you can accurately put the coordinates where they fall in the building, but a good clue in the write-up (or hint) should be used if the location inside is not obvious. I use a website to fine tune some of my caches as the air photos are pretty accurate when you can see the actual cache location on them. Between averaging and this online tool I can place a cache very accurately anywhere (even inside a building).

Would it be the same if you built a 10ft wall around your property and someone injured themselves climbing over it without your permission? (Although the answer seems obvious, this is a serious question - I don't know US law) Anyway, that cache is clearly >10m within the property boundary, well and truly on private property. I would mention it to the cache owner or the reviewer. Could just be a simple addition of the permission onto the cache page. I sent an email to the CO...tried to word it as nicely as possible. I'll let it stand for a while since if I do and it gets archived, it'll look like I have some vendetta. I just feel like it's in the CO's best interest to cover himself. I agree with your method...feel like in most cases things like this should be attempted with an email to the CO first. No need to go straight to the logs and write a note or NM/NA for the whole world to see. That comes later if everything is ignored (including an email to the reviewer).

Fixed that for you

It took me awhile to find this but this was one of my favorite logs ever...posted by a cacher that left the area long time ago "Well... I'm proud to say... FTF @ approximately 8:10 PM. This was quite an adventure! I wasn't sure whether I wanted to give this cache a shot tonight in the freezing rain, but finally I figured "what the heck" and I strode out the door. I arrived at the cache site for the first time at about 7:30 PM and, after a few minutes of searching (thank goodness I finally bought a headlamp) I spotted the cache. I looked around for something that would help me retrieve it, and I found nothing suitable. I returned to the cache and grabbed Barry, the four-foot-long Travel Bug that is currently riding along with me. After trying to climb Barry for a couple minutes -- even, I'm ashamed to say, removing my shoes and socks to try for a better grip with my bare feet (sorry Barry) -- I returned home for more supplies. I returned to the cache site at about 8:00 PM with my set of porch furniture -- a plastic table and a lawn chair (which previous finders of Cortland's Travel Bug Courthouse know well). I never claimed to be a mechanical engineer: it took a lot of positioning and repositioning of those two devices in different arrangements before I finally came up with a contraption sturdy enough and tall enough to allow me to grab the cache. As I stood at the top of my makeshift ladder precariously, I heard *pop**pop* coming from below me. Something was breaking, and I was likely seconds away from plummeting to my doom. I quickly scrawled "12-11-07 de-n-cc" on the cache log, replaced the log and rescrewed the bison tube. Just then, two legs of my table blew out and I fell to the ground. I laughed out loud hysterically -- I like to think I was sane at some point in my life -- and collected all the pieces. I carried my furniture out of the park and headed back home, soaking wet. Thanks for the adventure! If I had known archiving "Little Bit" would result in having this fun, I would have done it long ago!" A log that makes you wish there was a video camera recording it all...or, walking up to look for it yourself, arriving right at the point of furniture "collapse".

I once used a folded up cot. I needed to reach a cache that was just out of reach of my extendable tools. So I leaned the cot against a pole, that gave me another four feet of reach.

Email CO about it? Just tell him/her you don't feel comfortable tresspassing...ask if permission was granted.

Mine is a wire hanger about 8-9 ft up in a tree, put a piece of camo duct tape on it to make it look like a leaf.

The sky is the limit?