dkwolf

Against my better judgement, I'm going to chime in here. I just read the entire 3 pages of this mess in 20 minutes, so forgive me for not directly quoting parts I respond to, I'll try to sum it up as best I can as I go. At one point, the question was raised "What about public lands that have no published policy" Well, that kinda answered itself. There is no published policy, so there is no policy. The frisbee rule applies; that is, if there is no policy banning or restricting geocaching, then adequate permission is implied. (The english law reference is a very good one--it is a legit activitiy unless it's explicitly prohibited in a written policy or law) As has been mentioned, a great majority of land managers in this country are aware of geocaching, and where I'm from, a good chunk of them have at least done it once or twice. IF there was a problem with it, there would be a PUBLISHED and posted policy. The problems with caches being blown up has absolutely NOTHING to do with the guidelines and the enforcement of such, rather it is the direct result of inexeperience, stupidity, and/or pure arrogance on behalf of the cache HIDER. All the permission in the world isn't going to help if someone spots a 'suspicious' looking item in a place it shouldn't be. The bomb squad isn't going to sit there and say "Hey, let's see if we can find someone who might know what this is." They're going to do a risk assessment, minimize the risk and blow the stupid thing up. Sure, they're about to find out that they demolished a bunch of broken happy meal toys, but hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure I meant to reply to more of this mess, but it's late and I'm tired...so I'll close with this. It seemed to me that the initial post was typed in a somewhat emotionally charged state. The length, rambling, and incoherantness of it lead me to that conclusion. The whole thing was written to charge people. In the pages that followed, several of his 'questions' have been legitimately answered-by multiple people sometimes. But, they haven't been the answers the OP wanted, so they have been dismissed as 'tangents'. The OP refuses to admit the difference between 'adequate permission' and 'explicit permission', seemingly believing we should get 'explicit' permission for each and every cache we place. (sidebar: if that happens, geocaching will die as land managers will get tired of being asked and just start saying 'no') But, to the OP, I extend this challenge. Put your money where your mouth is. If you sincerely, to your very heart, believe that every cache should have explicit permission, YOU do it first. On each and every one of your cache pages, list the individual or agency that granted EXPLICIT permission or archive the cache. Or, alternatively, admit this thread to be the troll that it is, lock it, and quit wasting our time.

Whether or not it's considered defacing public property in a legal perspective, it would not be recieved in good faith by the general public. In other words, it would potentially give someone who has never heard of geocaching the idea that we are vandals and disrespectful of public property. I would suggest finding another way to get the information you need across.

You're asking US?! I'm not addicted. I can quit anytime. Really. I can.

Wow. That takes dedication man....

Sounds like you--and cachers in your area--are headed in the right direction, good to see the police willing to understand and work with you!

Pretty cool story, I couldn't imagine looking for a spot to hide a cache and finding one already there. But, that might have something to do with cache density here (usually 10+ miles between them)

How true that is The 11th commandment - thou shalt not leave thy bags uanttended. Sorry for your loss; but you asked for it. They said they left them locked up. It sounds like it means inside a locker. Airports don't use lockers anymore to prevent the bomb issue. "locked shut" sounds to me like the OP physically locked the BAGS shut, not locked the bags shut in a locker.

I'll agree it sucks that your stuff went missing; I would also recommend checking the bus station security as well as local police, bags left unnattended for that long these days are very suspicious. And on that note, I have to ask as well--what on earth possessed you to leave your bags at a bus stop for 4 hours???? And you were surprised when you got back and they were gone???? You're kidding, right? Heck, the one time I've spent any amount of time at a bus stop (waiting for my then-girlfriend to get in on a 12:30 route, downtown des moines, iowa) I spent the entire time on a near-constant rotation checking to make sure my wallet, watch, keys, and cellphone were still on my person. I'm not sure I would even allow my luggage to leave my hands, let alone my sight. Hope you find your stuff, and better luck (and think about it more) next time.

Exactly! On this particular cache hunt, it was after I had passed that stage and started wishing bad things upon the hider that I decided I was letting it get me WAAAAY too worked up and it was time to call it a day.

Not yet, I emailed the cache owner that night voicing several concerns about the cache (first stage condition, and possible muggling of second stage) and he immediately disabled it until he could get there to check on everything. Last I checked, it hasn't been enabled again yet.

Ouch. That's GOT to suck...

Christ was hung on a plus?? So *that's* the secret behind the Da Vinci Code! No silly. He was wearing a G string. Haven't you seen the statues? Brian was killed today in a freak lightening accident. Anyway, the image Team Jsam posted is sideways. Clearly it is a cross with the setting sun in the background. Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.....

Reminds me of something my SCUBA instructor taught us about diving in shark waters... 1) Always dive with a buddy 2) Always dive with a knife 3) In case of shark, stab buddy. In all seriousness, 99% of the caches around here, while not park-n-grabs, take less than an hour. I ALWAYS have at least one knife on me--a small leatherman micra multi-tool in my pocket, and a Gerber clip knife on the edge of the pocket for quick use. Other than that, a leatherman pulse multi-tool, maybe a fixed blade knife, and a cell phone are about the extent of what I carry with me---but with that I'm comfortable that I can 'fix' most injuries well enough to get back to the truck and get to true help.

Thought better of it.

I'm going to toss my $0.02 in here as well. If I were you, the first thing I would do is split your multi into two seperate multi's, so you can keep everything just like it is. Name them in series (long walk #1 and long walk #2, whatever) Really, one long multi, with a 'breakpoint' in the middle. No big deal other than it isn't what you had originally planned (and what you seem to refuse to move from) Plus, if one stage of the whole shootin' match goes missing, the other half of the 'multi' is still findable on it's own. Or, if you've really got your heart set on making it so you have to do it all in order, put bogus coords on the first stage of the second group, list that group as a puzzle, and put the coordinates for that set on your final stage of the first one. So far, you've only had one *traditional* cache listed, and it's been out for less than a month. A 17 stage multi (as one cache or two) is going to take a LOT of maintenance, and thus far you have no track record of being able to maintain caches well. Quite frankly, if you suck at it, a 17 stage multi is going to create a lot of geolitter. (I'm not saying that's the case, just saying) I'm not saying the enthusiasm's not cool or anything, but you might want to think about pulling on the reins just a bit. Maybe a 17-stager is a little ambitious for your first multi-hide? And I will agree with everyone else, the listing guidelines are just that; guidelines. Which you should follow before placing/submitting a cache. If for some reason, you're trying to bend a guideline, you need to tell the reviewer EVERYTHING that might help him/her with the job. Remember, they're volunteers. They don't need to take carp from you because you didn't read the directions. And on that note, coming to the forums and whining about how some evil reviewer is ruining your enjoyment of geocaching doesn't really help your case with the forum regulars. Seems like it's a regular occurance anymore though, someone comes in complaining about the horrible reviewers we've got here and how lousy they do their job.....and then the truth comes out about how many guidelines were broken by their hides. At least you admitted that part from the very beginning.

With the way our society works these days and everyone's paranoia regarding the police, we have tied their hands in cases like these. Too many people afraid of 'unjust prosecution' (read: couldn't get a good enough lawyer) or too many rich daddies buying a high-powered lawyer to get their kids off for doing something wrong, and we have effectively handcuffed the police. There was recently a case of ongoing vandalism in my town (yeah, big deal right? but it illustrates the point) The vandalism was targeted at one specific individual--a good friend of mine--and the cops knew exactly who was doing it, and all they needed was his fingerprints to tie him to the case without a reason of a doubt (a bottle he threw through her living room window didn't break, and had his fingerprints on it) HOWEVER, since he was a minor child, the police could NOT talk to him without his parents permission. His parents knew that if the police talked to him, he was as good as convicted, so they refused the police access to him. As such, the police were never able to charge him for the crimes, and there was no reparation for the damage he caused--both property and two weeks of near-terror for his victim. What kind of example did that kids parents just set for him? Anyway, good job following up on this case in general, but I'm betting you're up against something very similar to this right now; they're hiding behind thier parents, and the parents are protecting them because 'their sweet little kid couldn't possibly do something so bad'. Either that or they know that their children are the spawn of Satan, and are trying to deny it.

Checked your spam filters? Usual culprit. As for suspension, it doesn't surprise me given your attitude in certain threads. Yeah, that'll help. Oh yeah....in before the lock.

Items that are with me at all times: Wallet Keys Cellphone Leatherman Micra mulit-tool (scissors, knife, etc) Gerber clip knife (4" blade, half serrated) Clips to pocket, can be retrieved, opened, used, closed & stowed with one hand (an essential feature in my book) Add GPS and Leatherman Pulse multi-tool for all caching trips, maybe some swag items into pockets. Depending on season and/or cache area, the following may or may not get added: Ruger 10/22 rifle Ruger Blackhawk .357 revolver (both of these are rare, but sometimes I do like carrying them along--one or the other) Buck fixed-blade knife w/leather sheath--again, half serrated and one-handed usable. Small backpack with: -Maps -Compass -Trail markers -Batteries -Another knife -Small saw -Rope -Duck Tape -Survey ribbon -Flashlight -Matches/firestarter -Binoculars -Other items depending on season (hunting)

AMEN, AND WELL SAID!!

There is more truth to this than you might know. In my office, there is ONE individual who enjoys 'stirring the pot' in an almost arcane sense. You can guarantee that at LEAST twice a day, he will come back spouting off some garbage relating to either sports or politics. You can shoot him down on facts over and over, but it doesn't matter. And has been demonstrated in the thread in question, some people just cannot help but interject their opinion into a conversation, regardless. And if you ask me, when they go as far as to post *TROLL ALERT* above the offending section, I have to ask myself why they didn't just hold their tongue and not say it at all...but again...they HAVE to interject their opinion. It's been my personal opinion that people with these kinds of tactics actually do more HARM to their cause than good; it's just too bad they can't learn that.

Or the FTF prize could be something starting with the letter of the cache; A-arrowhead (relic), B-bouncy balls... Could make for interesting FTF races to collect them all

As a matter of fact, I also would like to know. Inquiring minds want to know!!!

I remember trying the "follow the arrow" technique early on in my caching career. I was on my cycle at the time, so I was more enjoying the ride than going for caches, which was good. Because I learned pretty quick that going where the arrow tells you to is much harder than you'd think. Eventually, you'll get there, but what might have been a quick trip can easily turn out to be many miles longer. With the price of gas and limited caching time, I'm all about "get there and get hunting". The days of following the arrow are past, the days of following the Voice of TomTom are the present. One PDA has all I need to make the most of my caching time - TomTom and the cache writeups stored in GPXsonar. My next investment will be a GPS upgrade to a 60CSx, so I can get signal under the canopy, thereby saving some more time when I'm in the woods. I don't know what kind of situation you have for cache density where you live, but the travel time between nearest caches here can often be 15 miles or more. Add to that the fact that roads around here are laid out in nearly perfect one-mile grids (granted they vary between state highway, paved county roads, gravel roads and just plain old dirt, but odds are there's a road heading N/S or E/W every mile). Makes the follow-the-arrow method actually quite effective. Say the cache is 20 miles NW of your current location; hop on a paved road and head due west until the cache is nearly due north of your current position, head north on the next road you can and there ya go.

I've spent enough time looking at the caches in my area online that I can pretty well remember pertinant information about them (although a mistake or two has made a couple caches much harder than they were supposed to be) When I go caching, I just load the waypoints into my GPSr, hit 'find nearest' and go for it. Heck, I don't even use maps on my caching trips, just hit 'goto' and follow the arrow.

More or less, yes. Not a very efficient way to find caches, though.