flarbear

That's pretty much what I've been doing. It would be nice to copy over some of the info when making a waypoint, or to have a secondary location(s) attached to a geocache so you never really leave the geocache navigation in the first place...

If you think you might be upgrading if the playing field changes any more you might want to consider resale value. Right now we know that the CO will probably have a poor resale value given the steep discounts that are happening on it. The 60cs - probably a good resale value? The Oregon may also have a good resale value, but time will tell. I am very bad at predicting these things so take my first guesses with a big grain of salt. My OR 400t had over a gig free, just like my CO 400t (though I don't remember the exact numbers).

Not to mention the fact that this violates their claim of an IPX7 rating. If a unit cannot take "splashing water" then it isn't rated higher than IPX3. See the chart on the Wikipedia page for more info. Even IPX6 specifies protection against "powerful water jets" which is a prerequisite for an IPX7 rating and IMHO specifically and strongly counteracts their claim that any type of moving water could be somehow "worse" than immersion. [Hmmm... I might be making an assumption as I haven't actually read the spec, but my assumption is that if you are rated for IPXn, then you must be rated for all IPXk for k < n as well...]

I feel your pain! I was a bit surprised at the rather primitive way they implemented this on the Oregon as well. They have plenty of real estate to do better, but they need to rethink that screen. I think their primary goal was to get this out the door based on their standard existing input screens that they use in other parts of the Oregon and to be able to type coordinates in the various supported "Position Formats" that the user can choose without having to invent custom screens for each. Expedient, but not helpful. A couple of helpful tips to make it a little faster... There is a little "<" arrow on the top right next to the coordinates. This isn't a delete button, it is simply a "move one position to the left, wrapping around to the end" arrow. So, if you can stomach typing the coordinates in backwards you can at least avoid switching modes between scrolling and editing mode while modifying the coordinates. You do have the option to type the entire coordinate rather than to just move to the digits that are wrong. This could save a few mode transitions. Unfortunately the default screen has no N or W on it so if you use the typical hdddmm.mmm format then you either need to toggle to scroll mode to move past the N and W or you have to switch to the alpha input screen to retype them. Judging from how much they can fit on the alphabet input screen it definitely looks like they have enough screen real estate to have both coordinates visible, ability to select the set of digits to edit directly rather than with arrows, and room for buttons for 0-9,.,NSWE,+, and -. You'd need different setups to enter coordinates in other "position notation" formats, though, but the primary one that I imagine most people use (hddd mm.mmm) could be much more useful than what they have...

Garmin has this footnote on their web site. And Wikipedia has this article explaining all of the IEC 60529 ratings. IPX# implies no rating for the first digit (protection against foreign objects) and the 7 rating is pretty much what Garmin said in terms of 1m of water, but they don't list any time frame.

You need to create a waypoint and then edit the coordinates. You can use the "Mark Waypoint" tool to create one, or you can use the little "flag on some crosshairs" symbol that sometimes appears at the bottom of the screen to create one. The flag symbol appears when you are reading the description of a geocache which makes it easy to create a properly named editable Waypoint when hunting a multi-cache or a puzzle cache. It also appears if you click on the Map screen and then click on the bubble at the top of the screen making it easy to quickly create a Waypoint from the map view.

Ummm... What REI 30 day return policy? They don't have one. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee which has no time limits. Did I miss something? I thought I read 30 days...my gosh "no time limit"? That might be worth paying close to list price to get. That was a big selling point Costco had for a long time but it was abused to much. Does REI offer technical support too for its GPSr products it sells? REI just rocks for shopping for outdoor products. Here is their satisfaction guarantee. And they offer 10% back on your purchases via a dividend awarded early in the following year for products not on sale (and sometimes their sales beat the competition anyway). They have a fairly knowledgeable staff of people who all use the things they sell day in and day out and they'll let you play with the products in the store while they answer questions. I've set up a tent in the middle of their camping department while the salesperson told me every little gotcha on how to set up that specific model - and she was speaking from experience. Note, though, that depending on the store they may not have the right expert working every night of the week for some areas (like GPS) so if the person helping you doesn't know enough (and they will usually admit how much they know right away) you can always ask if there would be a better day to return and they'll usually say something like "I use my GPS more for geocaching, but you should really talk to [Jane] since she uses hers more for hiking and she works on Tuesday through Saturday".

But the seal isn't between the battery cover and the unit - the seal is around the battery compartment and around the SD card slot. Open it up and feel the rubber ring around both. It is irrelevant how well the cover fits against the body - the important thing is how well this rubber seals seat and you can't really observe that since it is inside the cover when installed.

Can't stop everyone from falling back, but by the same token not everyone wants to fall back either. Many of us are perfectly happy with our Colorados and even happier with our Oregons.

Ummm... What REI 30 day return policy? They don't have one. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee which has no time limits. Did I miss something?

I never needed an SD card for my CO 400t - I even loaded the full City Navigator NA maps onto it with room to spare in its internal memory for all the geocache and track logs that I think I'd ever want. It depends on what you want to load on it - 1GB is a lot of room for many users. On the other hand, SD cards are dirt cheap these days - I've just never needed to pick one up for my CO...

As far as screen protectors, I'm trying to get Boxwave to release a Cleartouch Crystal protector for Oregon. I might try that as people give it good marks for visibility. The invisibleshield I have on my CO has been just great in terms of visibility, but I want to give the OR screen all the help it can get.

[sorry, somehow posted on the wrong thread...]

And, just to be sure because you didn't mention it, did you recalibrate the display? For most of their devices you recalibrate the display by holding the power button for on the order of (seems like forever) 30 seconds or so to turn it on and it will go straight into a touchscreen calibration sequence.

CO 400t should still be $450 through Labor Day at REI. Not quite as cheap as $400, but better than the current Amazon and Walmart prices and they have a *much* better return policy (open-ended and liberal).

I'd love to hear experiences with invisibleshield products on the OR touchscreen as well and invite those comments here!

Thanks Low Bat, but don't be too picky. The new OR I have now isn't perfect, but the distortion is very low and the touchscreen is working just great. I'd recommend more that if you think the touchscreen is being flaky and recalibration doesn't help - then look for this potential problem to confirm that it may not "be just you"...

Holy smoke--that's a new one on the touchscreen sort of delaminating and getting an air bubble trapped underneath it. What about getting an InvisibleSHIELD for the OR--recommended or not by anyone? What about removing that shield should you need to replace it or return the unit to Garmin? Can you still do that? Sigh. This is getting aware from the original CO 400t topic so I'll start a new thread about my touchscreen issues...

I wanted to start a thread about some issues I've had with touchscreens on a couple of Garmins in case anyone else is having similar troubles and might benefit from my experiences. I bought a Nuvi 200 back in May on a great Memorial Day sale and the touchscreen was really hard to use. I would have just chalked the experiences up to the quality of their touchscreen being just really poor, but there was something odd about the problem that made me think twice. One problem I kept having was that I would touch the screen on one side and yet a button on the complete opposite side would also get triggered. At first I thought maybe I was being lax and dangling another finger on the far side of the screen, but it would happen when I was really careful and even when I used a stylus to do the press very accurately. If it wasn't for the fact that I was nowhere near the button that was triggered I would have just thought that it was a "touchy" or inaccurate touchscreen. In examining it more closely I noticed that there was some give in the top layer of the touchscreen - the matte plastic cover that you make contact with. When I pressed it, there was a visible distortion across the entire display and the distortion would snap back when I released. It was as if the plastic layer was not perfectly flat on the screen when they pressed it into its mount, or some slight movement in the mounting mechanism had caused it to bunch a little. After noticing this I returned the unit to Frys for a replacement and my second Nuvi had a very firmly mounted plastic layer that had no give or air gap under it at all and worked perfectly. Recently I bought an Oregon 400t at REI and noticed that I would have some trouble using the touchscreen from time to time. The problems I had were that I had trouble accessing some rows of buttons unless I was really careful with my finger, and also sometimes I would press a button and as I lifted off the screen it would scroll slightly in one direction and then snap back and fail to register the button press. It was pretty bad when I first got it, so I calibrated the screen and the problem got better, but didn't completely go away. Again I looked closely and noticed an air gap under the matte plastic that would deform as I pressed it. Unlike the Nuvi which would deform across the entire display, the OR screen was simply bubbly and would deform more locally as I pressed. But, it was enough to turn a simple press in to a slight "drag" that would invoke the scrolling or to shift the pressure point to an adjacent button as I lifted off. Remembering my trouble with the Nuvi I looked again at my working Nuvi and noticed that its screen was rock solid - mounted very well into the frame with no give or air gaps. That is how I'd expect a touchscreen plastic layer to be mounted on a $600 device. So, I returned the OR to REI for a replacement and they let me look at the new OR at the Customer Service counter. The new one still had an ever so slight give to it and I was worried and wanted to check another unit, but the CS representative said that it was their last one. I ended up just getting it (with their return policy I can always return it when they have more stock if the second one is also bad), but this one seems to work just fine despite the slight give in it. So, if you are having occasional missed hits with your touchscreen and notice an air gap or a distortion in the plastic layer as you press on it - try getting a replacement rather than living with the frustration...

Does the screen ever get real smudgy so that you are wanting to clean it off every time you look at it or does a matte finish help mask this? Aside from text entries and navigating around on the screen I was pretty good handling the R-n-R. From what I've read though I shouldn't be regretting the switch. It does get smudgy, but that doesn't affect its visibility in use. The only time I notice it is when I view it at an angle (unless I had something gunky on a finger, but I'm talking about "regular use" smudgy). The touchscreen works much better than the R-n-R for all other purposes - I was just listing the "only things" I found better with the R-n-R. Note that you should check the plastic cover of your touchscreen for air gaps under it. If there is an air gap large enough then the touchscreen won't be as effective since there will be a shift in the touch spot as you press and raise your finger. I'm only pointing this out so that if you are having trouble getting the touchscreen to work well you have something to look for that might cause the problem. For $600 you'd think they'd work these kinks out in QA, but I had to return one Oregon for this very problem and the touchscreen on the replacement works much better...

What I did on the CO and hopefully can still do on the OR when I did a couple recent multicaches was to just create a "dummy" waypoint and then edit its coordinates to what I needed. This waypoint is outside of the geocache gpx so I could GoTo it. With the Oregon you can go to the geocache description page and there is a button at the bottom that looks like a flag on an X - click it and it copies the geocache to a waypoint. You can then edit that waypoint for multi-cache coordinates. It saves you having to enter coordinates from scratch (though not really a big issue on the OR) and from having to type a name for it.

In the "THAT" section of the PQ - just click "I haven't found" and "I don't own"...

About the only thing I found the R-n-R good for compared to my Oregon was for navigating menus while walking - it's still a little hard hitting soft buttons with no tactile feedback to really do it effectively on a touchscreen while walking. The R-n-R was also good for changing map zoom levels by a large factor quickly - and same while walking. The +/- zoom buttons on the OR touchscreen are a compromise between useability and screen real estate.

Just in case this is user error - you do know to use the "Log Attempt" entry in the Options menu when you find a cache, no? It marks it as Found (or you can choose Not Found or Needs Maintenance) and then it will show up with a different icon on the map and it won't show up in the "nearest" lists. If you upgrade to the latest software (2.6) you can even enter a comment to remind yourself about something you want to write in your log later (I wouldn't recommend the scroll wheel for much more than a word or two, though).

A quick question as to how you are loading the cache info in the first place? I think most of us here use Pocket Queries and so the usage pattern hasn't really bothered us. I have almost all of my caches stored in pocket query files of 100 or 500 caches apiece covering the cities or towns that I plan to visit soon. For the number of caches I find out of them it isn't that big of a deal that their info isn't deleted since when I mark them found on the CO/OR it omits them from searches and shows them as found on the map. By the time I would find a significant number of caches in a given GPX file, enough time has passed that I already would want to rerun the pocket query in order to get updated logs, newer caches, and omit ones that are archived or out of order. I set my queries to omit caches that I've found so the storage will be reclaimed as soon as I get an updated query file to reload. Now, if you load the caches one by one using "Send to GPS", then you'd need to delete the GPX files for the caches you found and not the ones you haven't. This could be time consuming and frustrating since the files are named after the GC code rather than anything you might easily remember from finding them. This is probably where GSAK and its friends could help as they could combine your GPX files into a single file that had them all listed and provide some easy ways for you to identify and delete the found ones - but the default way of going onto the unit as a file system and deleting the specific GPX files for the found caches would indeed be frustrating. It might be enough for Garmin to provide a way to delete the GPX files for which all caches have been found - this would include the ones loaded using "Send to GPS" since they only have one cache per file. Such a feature wouldn't be a priority for those of us who manage the info using pocket queries or GSAK, though...