flarbear

WRT REI's return policy - it is one of the best in the business. I'm struggling with using it in my case, though. I originally bought a CO 400t mid May last year, then later bought an OR 400t mid to late July when they first came out. The CO was the latest/greatest geocaching device when I bought it in May and yet it was all but obsolete (in fact, soon to be discontinued at many stores) less than 2 months later. The CO is still sold, and I can see that it does have advantages over the OR for one-handed operation, but the units did not hold their value at all. To me, the satisfaction guarantee would be appropriate there as a sort of insurance against premature obsolescence of a $600 device. That's all arguable, I agree, but that is the way I perceived it. I had already loaded Nav maps on the CO which were tied to the unit, and the jury was still out on the screen usability of the OR so I didn't do an exchange at the time until I had time to make sure the OR would work for me. Since then, though, I had to return the OR twice for new units (one for a bad touchscreen, the other for bricking on me) and now I finally have one that has been flawless for several months. Somewhere in that process I reached the point where it seemed like abuse to return the CO, whether or not you think it was right to return it originally. Now, I'm left with a CO that has virtually no value as a used device - maps that are locked onto it which I can't transfer to my OR - and even though the OR is still seeing love in the form of excellent new features in firmware releases, the CO is the ignored stepchild. The slow, but steady, way that the CO has been margined out of its prime with the focus on the OR has me still considering that there is a case to be made for a satisfaction issue on it, but there is definitely something to be said for not waiting a year to make this determination. In the end, I hope I can get some money for it on Craigslist or Ebay, but I'm not holding my breath given how deeply discounted you can find them nowadays, and based on the incredible discounts we see on the OR units... :-(

I might be tempted if they added (an option for) a capacitive touch screen. I find the touch screens they use unreliable and had to return at least 2 units (an OR 400t, and a Nuvi 200) for phantom presses (if the screen cover is fitted with any gap then when you press on one corner it will distort and as you lift your finger it can spring back and touch on the far side of the screen - something that recalibrating the touchscreen cannot fix). Capacitive touch screens also require less force to use. I love using my phone for geocaching even though I have an Oregon 400t because the capacitive touch screen is much more responsive. The lack of a second plastic layer is also a big help for readability. Now, the Garmins are built to be "trail rugged" and so I can imagine that a capacitive touch screen is not the best choice if you are rock climbing or have it strapped to your belt in the woods. Also, glove use is a problem for capacitive touchscreens. But for those of us that may choose them primarily for urban geocaching with only occasional trail use, a different screen option would be nice.

I've used all of the following: - Blackberry Curve with the Trimble app and a BT GPS puck - Garmin Colorado 400t - Garmin Oregon 400t - T-Mobile G1 with GeoBeagle I like to use my Oregon on pre-planned cache hunts because I can keep a track log for posterity and it has a few other "fun" features which don't necessarily add to my ability to find a cache, but appeal to my geeky gadget side. Its user interface is a bit more polished than my second choice alternative. I love using my G1 to for doing quick cache hunts in urban settings, though. It is very accurate and it offers 2 modes - a radar "distance and relative bearing to destination" mode, and the google maps mode which just puts a "dart" on a google maps screen and lets you home in on it with your location dot. The google maps app lets you choose between map mode and satellite mode. Typically I use the satellite mode to see where the cache is, how many streets over and down it is, then turn it off, walk to the destination, maybe bring it out once more to double check the exact location, then put it away again and find the cache. The accuracy is dead on, but with satellite mode you can see just where it is relative to landmarks without having to rely on satellite accuracy. If the final destination is under enough cover that you can't get a good visual fix on where it is on the ground from the satellite picture, then the GPS accuracy of using the radar screen or lining up the pair of dots on the map screen is every bit as good as any of the dedicated GPSr that I've used. You can either load pocket queries into GeoBeagle to cover an area where you know you'll be ahead of time, or if you are caught off guard then you can also use it to do a quick search around your location on the web site and download individual cache coords to GeoBeagle using a couple of clicks - then you can use the radar or google map methods to find the cache. Both can be used to find caches in remote settings - the Oregon because it can only be used with pre-downloaded pocket query or cache GPX files - the G1 because it can also work in that mode (in addition to doing on-the-fly downloads of caches). The G1 can only be used in "radar mode" outside of cell phone coverage though. Its GPS still works and the radar mode can help you zero in the coordinates, but the Google Maps application only gets map info when there is cell phone coverage. WRT G1 vs. iPhone, the plans are much cheaper on T-Mobile. $25 for unlimited 3G data and 400 text messages on T-Mobile vs. $30 for unlimited 3G and no text on AT&T. For $35 on T-Mobile you can get unlimited 3G and unlimited texts. Minute plans are also cheaper with 1000 minutes for $39 or 600 minutes plus free nights and weekends for the same price. If you've been with them for a while as I have then they are now offering unlimited voice for $49 (not sure how long you need to be a customer for that). Coverage varies by location - sometimes I get coverage where my AT&T friends do not. I imagine that if you took a national average AT&T would come out ahead, but I've never been stranded in a no coverage area where AT&T had coverage and T-Mobile did not - when we get out far enough for coverage to disappear, it usually disappears for all carriers (except maybe occasionally Verizon).

I think the description of GeoBeagle mentions that it replaces the older version. Not sure why they felt a name change was needed, though...

Why not release a limited demo now with an upgrade to a fully functional paid version when paid apps are allowed? Then you could get more testing and more exposure before people have to decide whether to pay money for your app...

I've been using the Boxwave Cleartouch Cyrstal on my OR 400t. The screen looks great and my finger slides nicely on the screen protector, but it is so thick that I have to press with noticeably more force to click anything on the screen. It is still usable, but I just find that I'm not getting used to the higher pressure required to use the device with that protector in place. My one reservation with removing it, though, is that I did pick up one small nick on the protector in the 2 weeks since I got it. I'd hate to think of having that nick on the non-user-serviceable built-in screen layer. How sensitive is the touch screen with the Invisible Shield product?

There is now a GeoBrowse app in the Android Market for snapshotting the current location and launching the Google Maps Preview page on geocaching.com for those coordinates. Unfortunately since the maps preview page uses Javascript to place the cache icons it can take quite a while to see the results as the tiny mobile processor struggles to execute all of the Javascript. Something more dedicated will be needed to make the device truly helpful for casual ad hoc geocaching...

Downloaded it onto my OR 400t and ran it for 5 minutes in my hotel room. With between 5 and 10 meter accuracy it generated a coordinate that Google Maps plots exactly onto the building right on top of my desk, so it looks like it works great!

You can load them on either, but I loaded them on my CO 400t which had about 1GB free in its internal memory and the whole of City Nav North America fit with maybe 100MB free. The OR 400t has about the same amount of free memory (or at least mine does) so it should all fit in the internal memory there too. You use mapsource to load them onto the GPS and to load the whole thing you just select all and then download them. I don't remember the exact sequence of which buttons to press, though...

I'm not sure how accurate your current unit is but, given that the coordinates that are posted on the cache pages could be off themselves, usually it is better to look up from your GPSr when you get within 20 or so feet and start thinking "What if I were hiding a cache" rather than look for true GZ. And if you aren't trying to get to the elusive "0 ft." mark then the accuracy of your own GPSr is less critical. Having said that, accuracy can't hurt so more of it is always a good thing. But I would place good paperless geocaching capabilities over accuracy if you are only looking to do geocaching with the unit. If you plan to get into hiking or other activities then the accuracy starts to matter much more...

I could believe it was a return/sell except for the fact that the initial track went straight from Olathe KS to my apartment - do not pass GO, do not collect $200 at the REI store where I got it - just a straight line from one to the other. Now, a refurb - maybe, but the date on the track in KS was June. I don't know anyone who could have returned a unit in June, unless it was a refurb on a beta unit?

Two quick questions: I had bought the CIty Navigator NT 2009 Update from Circuit City and it stated that the Oregon was not a compatible device. Am I correct in assuming that I'll be able to use this update once I purchase the Full version of City Navigator NT? Where can I buy the full version (store purchase, not online)? Just to be sure - the City Navigator NT 2009 Update requires you to have the full version of a prior year of City Navigator NT installed. It isn't "update" for the device, it is "update" for the older purchased maps and software. The error about the Oregon not being compatible is probably related to the fact that the OR doesn't already have a prior version of the maps installed. It should probably be worded better. The fix should be to get a regular 2008 version of the software and then update that. The only hitch is that if you buy the full 2008 maps then you get a free update because you bought them after the 2009 update was available - thus your purchase of the 2009 update was a waste (and probably not returnable once opened)... I'm not sure where to buy the full version at a B&M, but if you are willing to entertain an online purchase then the good news is that it was pretty cheap with fairly low cost rapid shipping from Amazon last I checked - about $70 to $80 depending on how much of a sale they are having when you check. I bought it for $83 back in May, but the price has been lower since.

My CO had the carabiner that needed to have the strap reversed to fit on well, but when I got my OR the carabiner fit on just fine. I'm pretty sure that it was already installed in the way that lets it go on smoothly - and it went on even more smoothly than the modified carabiner goes onto my CO. Then I had to replace the first OR for an air pocket under the protective cover that was giving me touchscreen problems. New OR had a good carabiner that went on easily as well. Then I had to replace it again for crashing when I squeezed it. My 3rd OR came with the same old backwards strap on the carabiner that wouldn't go on without a lot of force. Luckily it was easier to reverse this time and it now slides on just fine. This strap also seems to be slightly too tightly sewn on the carabiner end such that the carabiner doesn't slide around on it very well - it binds and usually at an odd angle that I want/need to correct. :-(

I had to replace my OR when it started crashing when I squeezed the case. I just got done updating and registering the new one and went to customize the profiles. When I went to the profile list I had a profile named "Reackeatdijal" (or something like that, I already deleted it). Hmmm? Sounds like someone was playing with a copy of the "Recreational" profile and changed its name with some random characters and left it on there. But when? So, I went to look at the "current track" which should have been nearly empty. Plotting it on the map showed pretty much a straight line from Kansas to my home in SF so it didn't have any side trips. I chose to save a part of it so I could see how many segments it had recorded and discovered 2 segments from today in my home when I was playing with it, and 1 earlier segment from June in Kansas - probably when it was going through some sort of QA...? These boxes aren't sealed so I suppose someone at REI could have played with it in the store and turned it off without it ever getting a signal lock, but it didn't seem like it had been disturbed when I opened the box. The only other theory that makes sense is that someone was playing with it in QA at Garmin and left a little bizarre customization behind? Anybody else open a "brand new" unit and see evidence of someone having done something with it? Anybody else have an inexplicable "Reackatdigjal" profile in their list?

After some more experimentation it appears that it will crash if I press firmly on the sides - just below the level of the power button. I was probably pressing there when I put the battery cover back on. Looks like defective hardware... :-( Back to REI for my 3rd OR...(first one had an air gap under the protective layer on the screen which made the touchscreen respond vaguely to many touches...) But the short story is that this is not likely related to any of the crashes seen here...

Not sure if this is in any way related (probably a sudden hardware failure), but I'll post anyway to compare experiences. My OR started crashing on me at startup last night when I went to put fresh batteries in it. I tried a couple of sets of batteries and the same thing happened. I then put the original low-but-not-dead batteries in and it was fine. I put the back on the unit and it died again. I then tested and my unit runs fine with the back off with any of the batteries, but it refuses to start up or dies soon after the boot screens appear with the back on. Note that when it dies, the last screen on the LCD is still partially visible, but broken up as if the unit died and didn't clear the LCD on the way down and the LCD crystals are starting to fade one by one back to gray...

Bit OT but if you would indulge me . . . I notice from your sig that you own both a Nuvi and a Oregon. If you would, please compare the sunlight display useability with no BL of the Nuvi and the OR. I have a Nuvi 205W, I love the touchscreen but I find the display totally unreadable in sunlight w/o BL, whereas my eTrex is great. Thanks Do this with what you remember about the CO too please. I don't need to remember - I still have all 3. I'm a bit buried under work so I'm not sure when I'll next have them all together in daylight to do the comparison (hopefully I won't get around to returning the CO until I do). I do remember tilting the CO just right to catch the reflected light and then you couldn't tell if the backlight was on or off as the reflected light drowned it out. The OR is also very visible if you catch the reflected light with it, but I don't remember if it is better or worse than the CO, or how they compare using their backlights and not using reflected light. I haven't used the Nuvi very much at all (bought it for a song to use as a travel rental car navigator).

Also the built-in memory amounts are different. In the US the 400t has all of the Topo preloaded and still has over 1GB free. The 300 only comes with a total of 850MB which means you can't load all of Topo on it. Plus, the 1GB free on the 400t is enough (was enough on my CO 400t and should also be on my new OR 400t) to load the whole NA City Navigator maps onto it with room to spare. I'm not sure the 300's 850MB would be enough for the City maps, much less on top of the Topo and with room to spare. Of course, if you get a cheap microSD card then this is mostly moot, but I have both Topo and City in their entirety loaded and I haven't even started using any space on a removable...

I know this didn't end up being the problem you had and a little off-topic, but actually there are a few 4GB regular SD cards that are getting scarcer and scarcer. I know because I use one in my regular-SD camera. They were hit and miss as far as compatibility goes - it depended on whether or not your device would expect a certain field in the FAT FileSystem structure to go as high as they were setting it or not - but they did work in an SD-only device as long as the software was written flexibly. Now that the SDHC standard is out and in widespread use these regular 4GB SD cards are disappearing. Luckily I only needed the one...

Not true - the amount of internal memory is vastly different. The 400t has maps plus an additional 1GB free, the 300 has no maps and only 850MB free. As the OP said - the included maps are not useful for him (I would have thought that they'd have localized versions with topo of various areas, but maybe they only have localized street map versions of the Nuvis?), but even if you ignore the included maps the 400t still has more free memory (though 150MB for an added $100 hardly seems worth it when you can buy 2GB microSD cards for a song right now...) If you can delete the topo maps from the Garmin (there is a 2.7GB file called gmapprom.img when you get it - are those just the topo maps?) then you'd have most of 4GB free on the unit. Again, probably not worth the $100 premium given the price of microSD cards...

It depends on why you are returning the CO. Since this is REI, it would be worth getting the OR as a replacement to try it out - you can always return that as well. The paperless geocaching is even better on the OR and its accuracy seems to have fewer issues. I've never used a 60csx, but I am perfectly happy with my OR (then again, I was happy with my CO until I used the OR) - maybe I'm just a victim of "ignorance is bliss", but please don't educate me in that case...

Another reason to get it at REI - if it is not on sale then you get 10% back at the end of the year (in store credit) so it is like it is always on a 10% sale. It costs $20 for a lifetime membership to get this privilege, but you'd get $50 dividend for buying the OR 300 there so it is more like the device is $450 there right now ($470 if you aren't a member yet).

Ideally, if you can, it would be best to get to an REI to try them out. The staff would be much more knowledgeable about the device than bestbuy (not sure about gander mtn), and they have an unlimited return policy. Unfortunately the closest stores to where you are seem to be in Houston, some 80 miles away. :-( Personally I've never tried or been with someone who used a 60csx, but I have used a CO extensively and been just happy with its accuracy for geocaching. Now I'm using an OR and it seems a little better, but the paperless geocaching with the OR is just fantastic. In my opinion the coordinates on caches can be off by so much that the accuracy of your own unit is not that critical. In my group we have a CO, and OR, and a Nuvi 660 and we all end up within 10 feet of the cache and the "where would someone hide a cache around here" factor is 5x as important as GPS accuracy once we reach that stage... I do know that my CO rarely got a signal indoors when I've been in my apartment, but the OR gets a signal fairly easily. It might only be 3/5 bars and it may take a bit longer, but it eventually gets the signal.

The memory available should be different. The 300 is listed on the Garmin web site as having 850MB free, the 400t not only has the full topo maps loaded, but it has more than 1GB free on top of that. The CO 400t was the same way with memory and I was able to load all of City Navigator NA NT in addition to the built-in topo maps and have both available in complete form using only the built-in memory on my CO. I am sure I'll be able to do the same on my OR 400t when I get around to it (have to return the CO first)...

Agreed about the size of the type. But, you can customize the data fields on any of the existing screens, including the Map, Compass and Trip Computer screens - and you can configure any of those fields to show the current coordinates in standard format or in the selected Position Format. The trip computer makes a good place to set a bunch of data fields that you want to commonly see - kind of like your "home page" concept. It doesn't make it any more readable, but makes it more easily accessible. BTW, I find it odd that the default setting on the OR for "Setup->Map->Show data fields" is "Never" in the geocaching profile. The first thing I'd do when I get an OR (I had one and then got a replacement so I've broken in 2 now) is to change this setting to "When navigating" and then configure the fields to show data I'd like to see when hunting a geocache (like distance to Dest at least). The default setup that the units I got had out of the box just wasn't very helpful for geocaching...