Kermode

I am talking about all parks National and Provincal and Territorial Parks for sure. Your link to my cache is off base. It is not even in a park. There was no point to asking that it be archived. I think they should be banned in National And Provincal Parks. As for Municipal,City,County,and other I feel that it should be left up to the individual entity responsible for it. City parks are generally in place for kids in the neighbor hood to enjoy. or for the older people to feed pigeons.

I will re-answer DAGGS question. I will not be archiving that Cache because it is not located within a National Park and that is what we are discussing here. Caches in National Parks. That Cache isnt even in a Provincal Park. It is near one but is is in fact on an Island outside of the Provincal park. Geocaching is fairly new GORAK. As it becomes more familiar more people will hunt caches in the parks if they are available there. I will say that your mistake is to look at the today and now. Thankfully our friends running the Parks look towards the future and future damage that will be done. I used 250 as a liberal number. In the near future it could be 400 and I will assure you that not all people log theri finds at GC.Com

In a popular high useage park such as Banff if there were 250 people ( and all of their pets , bikes ,walking sticks, baby strollers and whell chairs and accompanying friends and family) going off the trail to find the cache they are changing the landscape. If there was no cache there, the need to go off of the designated trail to the specific site would not be there. There would be no damage from 1000 feet trampling off the trail and onto the vegetation. 250 people doing a round trip into and out of the cache site equals 500 people trips on the peice of land mulitiplied by 2 feet on each person equals 1000 foot steps. Now factor in all the friend, family, dogs, cats. bike, wheel chairs and yo ucan now see the whole picture. You are just looking at it from the point of view of 1 person walking . Take any peice of land weather it is dirt or grass or mud(that has never been walked on) and walk 1000 individual feet over that area and you wil notice the change made to that area. Imagine that being done to our parks.

Lets use Banff National Park as an example. Tens of thousands of people visit every year and at all times of the year. A cache is placed 50 feet off of a permanent trail. A paved trail or a trail of compacted crush. The cache is in a vegetated area hidden beneath a fallen tree. Over the course of a year, 250 ( a very liberal Number) of cachers, parade off the trail and into the vegetated area. Let me assure you that those visitors are destroying and leaving permanent changes to the landscape. Now add in all of those 250 cacher's companions, bicycles, wheelchairs, baby strollers,and pets. Soon it becomes a very visible scar on the land. This is not on the Parks Mandate and as I suggested previously the Parks to not need the added libility. Cacher placers own the Caches. The do not however have the right to place caches where-ever they please. Lets keep our parks free from any further erosion and un-needed damage. Most people do not even live near or visit our National Parks on a regular basis .The point is moot for them. The parks do serve a purpose. weather humans are or arent allowed in them the parks are still there protecting what they were created for. Parks can live without people.People have to accept responsibility and help to do what is necesarry to protect the parks.We are not talking about banning people from parks. the discusssion is on banning certain activities from parks. Please do not confuse the two. TO answer Daggs question about archiving my Cache listed above. Why does it need to archived. It is not inside a park. I checked the area when I placed the cache and it is definatley out side of the NATIONAL park.

Parks are set aside for their specific attributes. Some parks are off limits to humans. Mainly ecological reserves. They are off limits because humans 98% of them are incapable of no trace visits. This is mainly because they have no experience in nature. Nature to most people consists of a tree on a sidewalk in a city. Maybe a bird sitting on a power wire. Parks are in place to PRESERVE things such as plants, animals, water, geological items and many more things. They are not set up as large open air zoos, aquariums, or green houses where we are free to do what we want.Including geocaching. Humans fit into the equation but they are not at the top and by no means are they entitled to go into parks and change them. It is to be considered a privelage. Geocaching brings undesireable aspects to parks. Increased automobile traffic, increased foot traffic, garbage, noise and other things that our parks do not need. The parks that do allow humans to visit have areas where humans are allowed. There are designated trails for them to walk on. People bringing caches into parks are obviously not going to leave the caches at the side of the trail. They are going want to hide the cache off the trail. By doing this they are creating a new trail and disturbing previously undisturbed land. They are killing plants and even introducing unwanted plants and insect life to these area with out even knowing it. I realize that a few of you wont agree but I think it is important to educate people on some of the reasons why it is Good for all caching to stop in Our Parks. Some Provincal Parks have already told cachers to stop. I feel that it is good that the caretakers of those parks see the potential damage and negative aspects and have turned caching away before it gets out of hand. There are many activities that are not allowed in our parks. 4x4ing, off road vehicles , shooting, plant picking and the removal of anything from parks is illegal. Hunting is illegal in them. Most parks have signs that say please stay on trails. These signs are not there because they are worried that you will become lost they are there so that people are not prancing around disturbing off-trail areas. Geocaching must be included in the banned activities in our parks.This should clarify the reasons why it is OK for the Ban. I will probably contact Parks Canada and see what we can all do as a Geocacahing Community to support their plans. Thing such as educating others on thses forum sites and also helping to remove all current caches with the help of the cache owners.

Gorak , Please keep your comments on topic. Your ramblings dont seem to have anything to do with banning Caches in Parks.

No Cardinal YOU are saying that. All I am saying is that I think it is a great idea to keep Parks free from extra wear and tear. You dont realize that it only takes one person to change the landscape? Ask any tracker and they will tell you. Actually I am a tracker , I should be up front about that now. I notice the 10 foot fence comment was done tongue-in-cheek but please be realistic folks. Most people do not realize why our National Parks are there. They seem to think that they are there for the enjoyment of humans. Wrong. Lets just do our part to help protect these areas and do our caching elsewhere.

I feel that we should all stop placing and searching for geocaches in Parks. The added activity is doing damage to these preserved areas and the are so many other non-park areas where we can cache. Did you know that it only takes one person to change the landscape just from walking over it. The National Parks in Canada are considering enacting a new law to ban it. I have to agree with them . Any others agree?

What you should be doing is calling garmin and have them walk you through the USB setup. What you describe happened to me and I am very good at solving windows problems but that had me. I gave in called Garmin and within 10 minutes my usb was up and running.

I extend my apologies to the people I had mentioned in the above post. Sorry Mr Moderator.

How do you turn a family event like geo caching into a cauldron of bubbling puss. Recipe: [user names removed by moderator] Tell them something like Canada Parks will have no more geocaching in their preserved areas. Add some normal rational people like [username removed by moderator] who see the whole picture and can be rational . There you have it. Stir the pot a little by stating facts and watch the ingredients fester.

I totally agree. No need for the rudeness. these forums are set up for people to help each other not to be heckled like he did. I think an apology is due.

Garmin Topo software is great and if you want USB speed buy a Garmin MAP 60C/CS

Oh I dont think eroyd peed on your cache. It appeared to be stagnant water but if he did in fact leave an oh henry bar it was after my visit and you should talk to him about that.

Just go for it. The less people who have found the cache the better.. People out west here trample allover the place ansd after while the ground surrounding the cache has traile leading right up to it. The other thing is that people put crappy little trinkets in the caches such as McDonalds toys. Hell I even saw a cahe that the freaking owner didnt ever look at again because when I found it it was full of what I think was water althought it was yellow water. Some people think quantity over quality is the rule. They think that its a status symbol to have many cache finds next to their name.They are so wrong. It really goes to peoples heads. Ask th eprevious person who replied here I see that he is from the west coast too and he knows I am sure. Just go do it and have fun.While you are at it paddle out to an Island named Cobinosh.You'll love it there. Greta camping and fishing too.

I live in the City of Richmond which is on an island in a river delta. The island is totally and completely flat and the elevartion is 8 feet below sea level. My 60C reads -10 feet (below sea level) 90% of the time. That is elevation. As for lat/long accuracy ..if I am out on the open ocean from here with all satelites reading 'D" I have accuracy of 2 metres. These units will not read under 2 metres or 6 feet. You will never see those numbers on the display. If you do your unit is faulty. (read your manual) If you claim the it read 1 foot accuracy I urge you to use "ximage " to do a screen capture and share that image with us all.

I will also point out that no where in the above posting does it say that I will be selling the Metroguide France. It says if you want a copy say the word. How does a moderator interpret that as meaning I am SELLING an ILLEGAL software?

Furthermore.................... I sent a message to Jermey for him to look at this posting. Unless the person posting in a forum says or spells out that the software is a copywright infringed, pirated or an otherwise illegal copy , they have no right to say anything without proof. They can say for people not to sell , barter or trade software here but it is not their job to decide what is legal and what is illegal without seeing the item. Newspapers across North America also say that their classified advertising section can not be used for any illegal activity. That covers their butt. That is the extent of their obligation. If they see and add that says "Hot Car" for sale call 555 1234 they can not phone the customer up and say that he may be banned from ever placing an ad in the paper again because he is trying to sell a "Hot Car" in their newspaper. Maybe the car is hot because it is fast,rare,tricked up, or is for sale in a desert. The paper can not assumethat it is stolen. The same goes for moderators on this site. Unless they have proof that software is illegal or a GPS that John Doe has for sale is stolen the site has no legal right to ban someone from posting on the site. This site has filled it's legal obligation by informing the public that illegal activity is not allowed on this site. In the future I will post that any software I have is legal. Comments?

I received the following PM from a moderator named HEMLOCK http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...dpost&p=1396770 This post promotes software piracy which is illegal and will not be tolerated on the Groundspeak forums. Any further posts of this type will be deleted and future posts by you will be moderated. Hemlock Forum Moderator -------------------- Hemlock Volunteer Cache Reviewer Northern California Hemlock jumped to conclusions and acted like a dictator. Instead of asking me if my copies of Mapsource France were pirated or Store bought copies he assumed they were pirated. It appears that anyone with a keyboard can be a moderator. Below is a message that I sent to Hemlock as a reply.I wil alos contact Jeremy and a link to this thread so he is also aware of it. I am sure Jeremy doesnt want to hear it but maybe he needs to do a training session for inexperience moderators . For your information. The 2 copies of Garmin Mapsource France are legitimate store bought copies and It is NOT illegal to send them to another person if they agree to the enclosed license. SO before you jump down someones throat in the future maybe you could have the decency to ask them what it is they have and if it is a store bought copy or a pirated copy. THESE ARE 2 STORE BOUGHT COPIES IN ORIGINAL PACKAGING. If I were to sell a GPS on the forums would I be accused of selling a broken one or a stolen one because Hemlock uses assumptions? Hemlock....Next time just ask before the threats fly off your tongue

No I wont be able to email it to you . It is 360mb. Send another email and you can get it another way.

I think Onstar is a joke anyway. A money grab. If were in an accident I am sure that emergency personal would be called and on scene far sooner than doing it through Onstar. I listened to some Onstar radio ads that are apparently real recordings but after listening to them can not imagine that they are real...Example: Customer: "my husband is having a heart attack" onstar: " I have the police on the line please go ahead" Why the heck would they call the police and not an ambulance? Customer "I just saw a little girl fall off her bike and land on her face. She didnt have a helmet on" onstar " you say a girl fall off her bike and landed on her face is that correct?" Customer " Yes that is correct " Onstar " Is she hurt?" Hey Onstar! YES she is hurt that is why the customer called you. Do you think the caller was bored and just wanted to share info with you and gory details. Maybe the Onstar operator should have paused for a moment and considered wether they would be injured if they fell off their bike and landed on their face???? If these calls are actually real recorded conversations then Onstar should be ashamed of the people that they hire and they should be embarrased to play the ads on national radio. As far as I am concerned Onstar is another big waste of money.

I have Garmin's Metroguide France. If you want a copy say the word.

$22usd each. includes shipping

If interested post your offer.

I am not sure of the version but am glad that I have the capability. Dont really want to get the newest version because chances of me needing to find a brand new street are slim. My newest software is Bluechart and its really nice. Usless for those who dont live near the ocean. If I go on a Cruise I know that Ill be bringing my GPS loaded with the ocean charts just for the fun of it. I also just purchased a new Garmin mushroom antenna. Havent used it yet but will get a chance this long weekend. I bought it so that I can use it when hiking.It will also attach to my Yakima roof racks with great ease. I currently have it rigged up on a pole so that I can slide the antenna on its pole into a backpack and the antenna will be above the hikers head but not so high that it will be in the way of anything.The antenna will work much better than the quad helix. What I will be able to do is hike where ever I want and then plot my route onto maps and get an accurate idea of distance traveled, elevation gain etc. More accurate than with out an external antenna. It will also eliminate the need to have the GPS in hand all the time or with a view of the sky. It can be tucked away in a pockect etc and still be reading the sky. If anyone wants to see how Ive done this feel free to contact me and I can fill you in.