Eric and Hill
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Posts posted by Eric and Hill
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I have no idea, but for some reason after I read that crap I've been hearing Jim Morrison's voice....WTF dies Vietnam have to do with any of this......This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
I just keep thinking... "people are strange"
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Thought I should post this. It is a copy of the email string between abdspgeocacher and Jorgensen. I think Jorgensen response was very good. The response from adbspgeocaher was way out of line.
Mark Jorgensen's response seems to be "My Way or the Highway".
Let's respond with hundreds of caches.
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Sun, 6 Jan 2008 06:45:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "abdspgeocacher" <abdspgeocacher@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Add Mobile Alert
Subject: RE: Geocaching in Anza Borrego Desert State Park
To: "Jorgensen, Mark" <mjorgensen@parks.ca.gov>
All we asked is Reasonable restrictions.....
OK,
You asked for it! Let's see you remove all of ours. You don't have
the staff or the budget to compete with us.
abdspgeocacher
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"Jorgensen, Mark" <mjorgensen@parks.ca.gov> wrote:
"Dave Smith":
Yes, you did reach the correct person at Anza-Borrego.
We'll continue to work with the responsible geocaching organizations to
transition to "virtual" or "Earth" caches, which leave no physical
materials in our Park and Wilderness Areas.
Your so-called protest will continue what has been going on for the
last few years, and has brought us to where we all today. Hundreds of
unauthorized caches have been poorly placed in sensitive areas of
archeological, paleotological, historical, and resource importance. We are
working together to allow fun recreational use of the State Park, while
assuring the long-term protection of this wonderful desert land for
future generations to come.
Think about how your action leads to a better future for your sport and
for the integrity of Anza-Borrego Desert State Park. There are many
geocachers who are working to preserve their sport as well as protect
their Parks.
Sincerely,
Mark Jorgensen
Superintendent
Anza-Borrego Desert State Park
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From: abdspgeocacher [mailto:abdspgeocacher@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sat 1/5/2008 8:53 PM
To: Jorgensen, Mark
Cc: Mona Maree Jones
Subject: Geocaching in Anza Borrego Desert State Park
I'm not sure if you are the right person to send this or not but, if
not, I hope you will forward this to the proper person.
I read that ABDSP is forbidding physical geocaches within the park and
the caches are being removed by Park staff. I also read that
geocaching.com is cooperating by not allowing any new caches, within the Park
boundries, to be posted on their website .
As a protest to the Park policy we have started a "Pirate" Geocache
website. We will be placing caches within the Park and posting them on
our site. While geocaching.com "controlled" where caches could be placed
to comply with previous rules, our caches will not be moderated.
Participants will place them where they wish.
Over 20 "Pirate" geocaches have been placed within the Park over the
past few days. Our plan is to place many more before opening our site to
the public. We will have well over 100 before the end of January.
We consider this a non-violent, non-destructive protest of an
unreasonable, not well thought, policy . Our purpose is to convince ABDSP that
it is better to allow "Official" geocaching, monitored by a Moderator,
who makes sure caches comply with "reasonable" rules. We are
confident that we can place caches much faster than Park staff can remove them.
We are not vandals and will continue to protect the environment and try
to avoid sensitive sites however since the Park keeps those sites
"secret" we can't be sure that caches will not be near them. We will ask
our participants to follow guidelines that respect the land.
We are hoping that Park Administrators will review the new policy and
reach more reasonable terms with representatives from the Geocaching
community. If we hear that more reasonable rules will be applied,
allowing "controlled" physical caches, we will take down our "Pirate" site and
remove our caches.
Dave Smith
abdspgeocacher
Borrego Springs Resident
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"No one was holding a metaphoric gun to Nixon's head when he declared "Peace with Honor". "
What????? You are re-writing History. You must be young. Nixon WAS forced to extract us from Viet Nam.
Maybe if we set around and hold hands at a campfire and sing camp songs with Jorgensen he will compromise. I think not. By the way his compromise so far is to "Allow" Earthcaches. That's no compromise. Jorgensen has no power at all to prevent Earthcaches and he knows it. He could do nothing if Groundspeak allows earthcaches, or any other cache types, to be posted just like he has no power to prevent guide books from publishing directions to sites in the Park.
By the way, I appreciate the fact that we can disagree and remain civil with each other on this Board. Usually disagreements on message boards descend into Flame Wars.
WTF dies Vietnam have to do with any of this......
This is about Geocaching, a fun activity, or sport if you will.
The way you are going about this is entirely wrong, it is the Governments policy not to negotiate with terrorists.
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abdspgeocacher does not exist on geocaching.com . Whoever he really is; I don't think this is the proper way to respond.
How to Win Friends and Influence People 101
If you have a low level of positional authority (e.g. a geocacher) and want something from someone who has a high level of positional authority (e.g. a park superintendent), DO NOT (I repeat DO NOT) punch them in the nose! Do not continuously poke them with a pointy stick! Do not stomp on their toes! Do not place a flaming bag of s*** on their front porch and ring the doorbell! It's NOT going to convince them to change their minds.
Or to put it another way, do not get in a p*ssing match with someone who has more p*ss than you do.
Sheesh! You'd think people would have more sense... 
I agree 100%, well put LLOT! This entire "Pirate" cache thing does nothing to help the situation and will only serve to reduce the Geocacher reputation, it makes us all look bad. I am registering with the site just to try and express my discontent with it.
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Yea, i saw the video of it. Pretty cool! They would have made it to saftey in either case, but still cool that Geocaching can save lives
Anyone else see this? It brought a smile to my face...
Climbers rescued on Mount Hood aided by treasure hunt box03:55 PM PST on Tuesday, January 15, 2008
Associated Press and KGW.com
MOUNT HOOD, Ore. - Two men who became lost on Mount Hood were able to aid rescuers after they found a geocache, a box used in a treasure hunt game, that contained their GPS location.
Rescuers safely guided Matthew Pitts and Justin Votos out of the snow-covered forest Tuesday morning, after the pair got lost in whiteout conditions while climbing on Mount Hood.
"We lost our way and ended up further west than we thought we would be," Pitts told KGW, just after reaching Timberline. The two men said they found themselves in whiteout conditions. At times, they couldn't even see their own feet and were afraid any misstep would send them tumbling over a cliff.
Searchers got a break in their rescue effort Tuesday morning when a call got through to one of the men's cell phones. The climbers said they had built a snow cave and spent the night inside it, according to Jim Strovink with the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office.
After the cell phone call, the pair began heading down the mountain, but they couldn't give rescuers an exact location since they did not have a mountain locator device. However, the pair found a Geocache, which helped searchers zero in on them. A Geocache is a box with a known GPS location, used in a game similar to a treasure hunt that's popular with backcountry adventurers.
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Congrats lionhouse75 on 200
Time to make some more beer for the Spring Campout/CITOWay to go FLAGMAN and GoBolts!
Make beer
Did someone Ring 
I have 60 gallons of homebrew on tap at home right now, only problem is.... I can't drink it fast enough. Any Volunteers? 
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Which would be better -- raise taxes to provide for non-necessary services like parks, or follow a fiscally conservative measure of reducing government spending to meet a budget shortfall?
(From what I understand, the Guvernator's proposal is pretty across-the-board... parks, schools, governmental offices, etc.)
Better would be to leave the parks as open land. No staff, no maintaince, but still a park.
Agree 100%
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Cegrube's encounter was at Hollebeck, unless he had a second at MTRP I didn't hear about.
I don't recall any park rules against tinkling; I could be wrong. You certainly don't want to leave any paper behind; which grass is the softest, yet tough?
I prefer bark, or even clumps of dirt, but real men use cholla
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So what is a geocacher to do? The maps that the state provide show an area that is not part of "their territory" and we're supposed to say we'll maybe I shouldn't geocache here because maybe it's a part of the park.
If you're going to put a cache NEAR the park boundaries, then I'd use the most accurate map I could get my hands on. Any map produced by the California Department of Parks and Recreation should be accurate enough. I'm still trying to locate a highly detailed topo map that shows an accurate boundary, but at this time, the one I gave the link for is the best I could find.
Does it really matter? They are still going to remove it anyways and there ain't jack we can do
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Jodi, MMM MMMMM M MM MMMM
mmmm m mm mmm mmmmmmm
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Sure it makes you an old timer. Why don't those 12 show up? Either you didn't log them or maybe you created a new account in 2003....
I found ~30 caches in my first 3 months, and I cached one day on every weekend. Now people find 30 in 3 hours.it was almost impossible to find 10 caches in a single day 5 years ago.
I just noticed that 3 of us recently hit the 5 year barrier and RM is about to cross the 7 year barrier in May! No you just had to work at it
I think it was Labor day weekend of 01 my then 7 year old Gson and I did 17 in one day in the OC
And 7 years in Feb
Congrats on 7 years Vagabond! If you read the old logs, you'll notice that there aren't too many people still around that were caching 7 years ago. Even Tuna has faded away.
My first caches where in 2001. Does that make me an old timer, even though it was only about a dozen in that year and didn't log anything until 2003?
Made a new Account in 2003, Me and a buddy went out and did them and he controlled the GPS. We never logged anything back during the first year and I could only log 2 as I pulled them from the account he made during that year.
Doncha miss the feel of a half-ream of printout paper in your hand while caching in the olden days?
Whatcha mean miss it?
I'm still doing itthat way.
Ditto That!
I am still using the same GPS that I was using way back in the day. Hints? Messages? Maps? Color Screen? Pft, I think not! My GPS lets me know the first 8 letters of the cache and its location, the rest is carried out by lots and lots of print outs.
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Sure it makes you an old timer. Why don't those 12 show up? Either you didn't log them or maybe you created a new account in 2003....
I found ~30 caches in my first 3 months, and I cached one day on every weekend. Now people find 30 in 3 hours.it was almost impossible to find 10 caches in a single day 5 years ago.
I just noticed that 3 of us recently hit the 5 year barrier and RM is about to cross the 7 year barrier in May! No you just had to work at it
I think it was Labor day weekend of 01 my then 7 year old Gson and I did 17 in one day in the OC
And 7 years in Feb
Congrats on 7 years Vagabond! If you read the old logs, you'll notice that there aren't too many people still around that were caching 7 years ago. Even Tuna has faded away.
My first caches where in 2001. Does that make me an old timer, even though it was only about a dozen in that year and didn't log anything until 2003?
Made a new Account in 2003, Me and a buddy went out and did them and he controlled the GPS. We never logged anything back during the first year and I could only log 2 as I pulled them from the account he made during that year.
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I found ~30 caches in my first 3 months, and I cached one day on every weekend. Now people find 30 in 3 hours.it was almost impossible to find 10 caches in a single day 5 years ago.
I just noticed that 3 of us recently hit the 5 year barrier and RM is about to cross the 7 year barrier in May! No you just had to work at it
I think it was Labor day weekend of 01 my then 7 year old Gson and I did 17 in one day in the OC
And 7 years in Feb
Congrats on 7 years Vagabond! If you read the old logs, you'll notice that there aren't too many people still around that were caching 7 years ago. Even Tuna has faded away.
My first caches where in 2001. Does that make me an old timer, even though it was only about a dozen in that year and didn't log anything until 2003?
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Trestle Caches! <--------Clicky
Now that ThePolarBear has finished his puzzle insanity, he gets to go out caching again! We will be doing the Trestle caches on the morning of Jan 19th. We will be camping at the Mortero Palms Trail head on Friday night, the 18th. We will be setting out towards the caches around 7am. We plan on doing the Trestle caches and the Jacumba caches along the way there and back.
If anyone wants to come and camp that evening with us, or join us in the morning we are more the happy to have you. I have the main caches in this small area bookmarked as some of them are being archived. If you are an owner of one of these caches and would like us to remove them for you, so they don't get trashed by the Geo-Haters, we will be more then happy to cart them out.
We plan to camp until Sunday and do some more caches in the area as well.
Eric and Hill
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Double Post!
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I received a humble request from a frustrated puzzle solver if I could post some additional info on the remaining unsolved puzzles. Specifically which of the unsolved puzzles requires solving only for the last 3 digits for North and West. Well, since it's not a hint per se, I think I can be of service - however, I'm posting it in the forums only for now.
Teco #12 - Acronyms
Teco #13 - Stuck!
Teco #18 - Memories
After being promised gold and silver and an endless supply of free beer from half a dozen SD cachers I succumbed and let them in on a secret - you need to find 15 digits for Teco #11 - ???
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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After all, it is Anza Borrego Desert State Park, not Anza Borrego Desert State Preserve!
Good point. I may make that my last sentence when I send an email.
I haven't checked the park webpage for official boundaries of the park. Anyone able to provide a good map and/or coords to the park boundaries?
Lets focus on those caches with TB and coins
Well ThePolarbear and I, and hopfully a few others will be doing the Trestle caches and the Jacumba caches coming up on the 18th-20th of January. I will be contacting those people to find out if they want us to remove them or not. This whole this is very upsetting and tis a sad day for Geocaching.
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Finally! You took a two month caching hiatus to get this done......but little did you know I caught you on video after you had completed the final cache!
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Eric and Hill 1,
Woohoooo!!! Congrats Eric and Hill on your first 1000.
now go find another 1000. 
Give me 6 months!....... Or if my track record holds...........6 years
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Is the crew going through the Squeeze this weekend going to be picking up caches as they go through?
Minus well, before the Anzi Police get to them.
How rude, they should at least give us a sporting chance to retrieve our 'liter'.
Let's start emailing them: anzaborrego@parks.ca.gov .
Incidentally, this California state park accepts cachers. Kinda ironic?
This State of California State Park newsletter is somewhat positive about geocaching.
I personally feel that we should give AB a week or two to respond to our emails before removing all of our Geocaches, as this may have been a shoot from the hip reaction. If we all send very polite and courteous emails we should get a positive reaction were we can come to a happy medium.
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<snip>
How rude, they should at least give us a sporting chance to retrieve our 'litter'.
Let's start emailing them: anzaborrego@parks.ca.gov .
<snip>
Done!
Done as well!
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What happened?When I saw that Archive note on "Luckey Duckey 13," I was worried about something like this . . . Why were Geocachers blamed for what supposedly happened "near" that cache? Very sad! Who digs holes searching for Geocaches?!?!?!
Hmmm.... Have you looked at your Avatar lately????
Hey........ That hole was there when I got there......
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What happened?When I saw that Archive note on "Luckey Duckey 13," I was worried about something like this . . .
Why were Geocachers blamed for what supposedly happened "near" that cache? Very sad! Who digs holes searching for Geocaches?!?!?!
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I want to wish you all a very merry X-mas!
I love the look in the Reindeers faces.....
Its the "What happened to daddy?" look
Why were Geocachers blamed for what supposedly happened "near" that cache? Very sad! 
Physical geocaches prohibited in ABDSP?
in West and Southwest
Posted
Agreed! But enough of this. Lets get back to caching and solving the Tecolote Canyon puzzles.... I want free beer and pizza