Toron

I have heard of interference under the big power lines, but I have never heard of a device or system, other than the govt. scrambling the sattelite signals, that messes with gps reception. Is there such a thing? Other than that, I don't why a gps wouldn't work at at airport.

yes

I can agree in principle, but partly because "shirking" is such a negative word. I don't see any problem with someone who negotiates a cooperative agreement in order to develop the cache quality in an area. Here's a policy proposal *puts on flame retardant suit*. Allow for a cache to be listed by more than one person. One could be listed as the party responsible for maintenance, but others could be on the list of those placed the cache. Why bother? Glad you asked. From time to time, I have worked with other cachers to develop pretty involved, complex caches. I think the results of working together resulted in caches that were far superior to caches any single person in the group would have come up with alone. Problem was, only one of the group could get stats credit (we listed everyones names on the cache page itself) for the hide, and a query for other caches hidden by someone in the group wouldn't result in a hit for the group caches unless that someone happened to be the one who was listed as the hider. I see a policy change like this facilitating more group (and presumably better) caches as well as addressing the issue of vacation caches where there can be a local who has more direct responsibility for the cache. I cache when I go on vacation. Some vacations are to places where friends and family live and cache. For example, I have a brother in Dallas, Tx. who caches. There are a number of cache ideas I'd like to try there, in cooperation with my brother, and with him as the maintenance person. Yes, we could just do it anyway and list him as the cache owner, but the current system doesn't encourage that.

I agree. Though I can see the reason behind the policy, the banning of such objects does collide with a brickwall of common sense when you encounter situations like: "To get to the cache, you will have to hike through a heavily wooded area of the Everglades. Be careful, though, I have seen some monster rattlers in the area. Depending on the rainfall, there may be some wading involved. Just FYI, though I have never had a problem with them, there have been some sighting of gators. There is some climbing involved when you get to the final destination, so if you are squeamish about heights, you may want to reconsider. I definitely recommend going in pairs or groups, since there is no cell phone coverage and if you get seriously injured in this place, you may be done for. The original cache contents do NOT contain pocket knives or leatherman tools since those can be dangerous."

If someone is hiding a lame micro, they should just describe it as such in the cache page. Then, if someone makes negative comments, it is truly bad form because it's exactly what the cacher should have expected. If someone describes a cache as the most challenging that is the product of days of research and weeks of preparation, and I go find a magnetic key case stuck on a lampost, I will make comments at least through email to express my disgust with the discrepency between the pitch and the product. If, on the other hand, someone lists it as "a quick drive-by you can snag on your way to lunch," I have no grounds for a complaint if I thought it was too easy. A lot of people like the easy micros. Label them clearly so those who want em can have em. Those who don't want em and go after em anyway, well, I don't know about "rights", but making negative comments at that point places you in the universal category of Pooty Head.

What do you mean by "fixed"? FWIW, I switched mine from earlier today from html in the description to a straightforward URL in the new designated spot. No problems (though I would still like to see the borders be adjusted--not trying to raise that horse in this topic, just couldn't help myself) .

I have no problem with it. Graveyard caches are great. Disrespecting a burial ground--well, of course not. But de-stigmatizing death so it isn't that-which-must-not-be-named and making it a part of living and the things we enjoy in life, I'm all for it. I do respect your concern, but I think it reflects your personal feelings about death and the deceased. The variety of personal and cultural views of death is tremendous, and I think a blanket rule for everyone (short of "thou shalt not vandalize or desecrate" of course) would be a mistake. Thanks for raising the topic though. Interesting

And this is slightly off topic, but I have to add it. I want to thank the moderators for allowing this topic to run. Some of the dialog has been productive and informative. I'm sure it was a bit of a delicate decision. edit: dialogue

Gotta add, I'm not addressing all the subsequent exchange that went on after the opening salvo. I don't know enough about it to make any comments. I am not taking sides on this since I don't know enough about either side to even begin to make an informed decision. Is that politically evasive enough?

I think, Voncachestein, that you may be underestimating the impact of your comments. Indulge me for a few stereotypes. Teens act out (ie extreme dress, skateboarding in public areas, blaring stereos) and many people just shake their heads and write it off as kids stuff. Teens often aren't taken seriously, so they sometimes say things in abrasive and uncouth ways because 1--they want to be heard over the indifference or 2--who cares, nobody's listening anyway. A big difference here is that age doesn't matter. You're a cacher. Period. What you say has just as much weight the comments of the next cacher. In short, the fee pass of youthful indulgence just doesn't fly here. There are norms that apply regardless. One is that cache logs are not used to criticize a cache. When you say "it could be better", it's not some reckless teen making an illadvised comment that should just be ignored. It's a cacher violating the unwritten rules of the game. Of course, the reciprocation of the cache owner wasn't too hot either. For what it's worth, email and other non-cache-log methods of communication would be more appropriate methods for communicating your feelings about the cache. Having a cacher state in a public setting (the cache page) that all the effort of another cacher is lame is not easy to take. Just my .02 . I hope this doesn't come across as preachy as it looks.

You mean like an ammo box? Personally, I would much rather open a real electrical box than an old ammo can with aged powder in the deteriorating shells. I do see your point, to a point. I don't think a cache hider should place a cache that puts a cacher in unreasonable danger, but I think absolute guidelines on how that is manifested would be next to impossible to establish. There has to be a common sense factor. The clear labeling on the caches described thus far seem to address the issue. I have an electrical box (the ones that stick out of the ground) that I am planning on using for a cache. I will place an official looking label (like "United States Geocache Logging Station) that will not be understood by Joe Blow, but which should be very clear to a geocacher. Without describing the container, I will mention in the cache page that the container is clearly labeled. My.02

What about a different happy medium. What about a larger border above? One that is similar to the border below? It would allow the background image to set the tone for the cache while not interfering with the text density and other viewer issues in the main body of the page. Just a thought. I am in the school of "likes the backgrounds," but I understand the benefit of the new layout. The larger top border would address most of the reasons I enjoy the backgrounds.

Completely inane topic, but to the obsessed, nothing is trivial. I am coming back to my computer like an hour or so after having left and finding that I am still logged on to this site. (I can still go to my page, and it still shows me as being logged in after hitting the refresh button) Am I hallucinating or didn't this site used to automatically log you off after about 15 minutes or so of inactivity? What the heck--I just gotta know.

yea

I recently stumbled across a strange passage that seems to answer your question: "And on the tenth year of the new age, the frog will die. A great darkness will cover the hearts of the people of the woods. The wandering spirits will be bound to the earth, and the voices of the heavens will not reach them. Their numbers will be as dust in their mouths, and the tranquil waters of their past searches will not avail them. Their machines will be abandoned like dung." Nostrodamus Obviously, GC.com has about six years left. Enjoy it while you can.

Thanks for the word! Looks like premium membership and respectability are in my future. Well, at least premium membership.

This is not about the merits of members only caches vs. not. Strictly a technical question here. I am preparing to finish setting up a members only cache. (yeah, I know, I have to become a premium member in the process) I am planning to give it 90 days as a members only and then kick it over to fun for all. Is it simply a matter of switching a setting with no other changes, or is there a loss of log entries/re-submission of page requirement/other unforseen complication? Just wanting to know before I take that plunge. Thanks for the info.

This is the law in Oklahoma related to trespassing. Keep in mind that I am merely adressing legality, and not proper caching etiquette and/or GC guidelines. If the property is not occupied (there is not residence) and it is not posted against trespassing at regular intervals, you cannot be charged for trespassing unless you refuse a direct request by the landowner to leave the property. For what it's worth.

Two thoughts. One: As long as you're posting outside of GC, go for it. Simple customer service dictates that you shouldn't misrepresent the cache, but with that caveat in mind, anything goes. If I knew what to expect and went after it anyway, what do I have to complain about. Two: The effort to get the word out for a cache that is not listed on GC might be more than to simply advertise the store period. I have not done this, but I don't see a problem with it. Why not set up a neat cache in close proximity to the store and have it listed on GC. This would, in my opinion, be a gray area, but here goes--you couldn't advertise the store in the cache itself (coupons, flyers, etc), you couldn't place the cache IN the store itself, the cache would have to be cool in its own right. You could always put a sign up within sight of the cache that advertises geocaching products available in the store. The idea behind this may be a bit shady, but I think the end experience for the cacher would be no problem at all. Nothing was shoved in the face of the cacher, and the cache was a good experience. My .02

Not trying to bump an old thread, I just had something to say about this topic and figured .... I don't check my e-mail very regularly, but I DO check my cache listings almost daily. People who log DNF's allow me to know if there's a problem with one of my caches, where an e-mail-only alert would not. On a somewhat related note, I would like it if the "My Cache Page" page would list the date of the most recent activity, not just the most recent find. I am pretty sure that notes and DNF's do NOT show up on those dates. In other words, without actually going in and looking at the logs, you can't know at a glance that anything other than a find has been logged on a particular cache. Just my .02, and thank you to everyone who posts their DNF's.

I have placed a nightime only cache that uses deer trail reflectors. Basically "FireTracks" but a different name brand. I picked them up at Academy Sports. There are a couple other night caches in the area that I know of, and they both also use the reflectors. They work well enough, but I am sure interested in some breakthrough idea that still requires night caching.

Just because I gotta. I think people should be able to list cache coordinates without placing a cache or log book even though it is NOT listed as a virtual. That way the cache hider could admire all the purple frowns on his/her cache page. And this whole rule thing that prevents me from hiding a cache on the back side of the million year old stalagmite in Carlsbad Caverns is just lame. I know it would cause the destruction of an irreplaceable natural wonder, but dangit I'm trying to have fun here! Lighten up and just let me cache. Can't you see how allowing me to place really cool caches like that would really help the sport? I guess I could go on, but you get the point. Rules just suc*. They ruin all the fun for everyone, and trying to use open forum discussion to test drive adaptations to a wide-open rapidly evolving sport is just a waste of time. And this whole "lame rule" thing goes way beyond GC rules. I could get to caches a lot faster if I didn't have to always worry about driving on the right sight of the freeway, and there would be a lot more adrenaline involved. Don't even get me started on the stupid stop sign concept. I mean, Duh! I could obviously get there a lot faster if I didn't have to keep stopping every place someone decided to put up a stinkin red sign. I admit, there would be a lot more body bags along the way, and the traffic tie-ups from the horrific carnage would be a hassle, but without the ridiculous speed limit restrictions, I could get around the freeway traffic jams just as fast using residential roads.

I've never come across one wrapped in a bag. I agree, it sounds like a lousy solution for waterproofing OR camo. Too many great ideas have been mentioned on other threads for waterproof containers bagging a cache to be justified. My .02. EDIT: ...for bagging a cache to be justified.

Heidi Fleiss' inner sanctum--Sorry, you have to pay for admission: Denied

1) a cache in a small but forceful waterfall. The cache seeker would have to fight the force of the water while protecting the gps device, and the water would be so frothy that the cache would have to be found by touch instead of by sight. The cache "container" could be a well anchored chain or chord that would serve as a kind of key chain. The themed items would have to be impervious to water damage and be attachable (think d-rings). The log book would have to be one of those waterproof grease pencil tablets used by divers. The impossible nature of this cache would be inhospitable nature of the location regarding the survival of a cache container. 2) Place one under a permanent porta-pottie. The coords would have the cache seeker looking into the blue water thinking "uh uh".