Navdog

quote:Originally posted by yummykaz:But I am trying to add to the GPS when we jump out. Meaning if we are .30 miles away we will jump out instead of .25 miles away like last week...I am trying to up the jump out point! That's Good!!! And stay away from those lame drive-by caches. They're as bad as jelly donuts!!! The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

quote:Originally posted by Bull Moose: Just to play devil's advocate, can't anyone who can find information on a geocache just as easily look in this thread and find the coordinates now? I guess I would think a cache near there might be kind of cool as long as the dangers and warnings are outlined on the cache page. It is one thing to talk about the location of the Hell Hole on this forum or any other. But to use geocaching.com to advertise it with an actual cache when the Forest Service has a policy to not make the location public, is something else. I would hope you would see the difference. The main reason I bring this up is that National Forest lands are one of the few areas where we as cachers have open access to hiding caches with very few restrictions. Why make a bad name for ourselves by advertising the location with a cache. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

quote:Originally posted by Criminal:Thanks Moun10Bike, I need to start planning if I'm going to go. General question to anyone familiar with the area: What is the camping situation in this area? Can you just plunk down your tent or do you need to use a specified area? Permits? Is there a stream nearby for making drinking water? Ironically, I have camped within two miles of the Hell Hole three of the last four years. There is a cool campsite along the north fork where Christy Creek dumps into the river. There is a bridge which crosses the river and a road that heads up Christy creek (FS RD 1925). Coords are N 43° 52.799 W 122° 23.141. Just after you cross the bridge, look for a faint road to the left. Room for one or two rigs. But I can pretty much gaurantee you that there will not be a campsite anywhere along the North Fork, since this is a holiday weekend. I camped there two years ago on the Fourth of July and there was a steady stream of rigs coming down the little road to our campsite looking for a spot to camp. There is the Kiahanie Campground a few miles up the road and some other hidden campsites just of the road along the river you might try. But the North Fork is one of the main routes out of Eugene and it gets lots of holiday traffic. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on July 02, 2003 at 08:10 PM.]

quote:Originally posted by Paul Ag '94:I disagree. They do compete a little. If I buy a hat from Texasgeocaching and not Jeremy, Jeremy is losing a dollar. I find it a little odd that you are worried about Jeremy losing a dollar when in another thread you say you are to cheap to pay for a premium membership, yet you have been a cacher for two years and have used this website to post 30 of your own caches. Don't you think it's time to show a little support of your own? I think local caching organizations are something that is valuable to the growth geocaching.com itself. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on July 02, 2003 at 12:22 AM.]

It was fun solving the mystery of the Hell Hole and it would be fun to have an informal geo-gathering to go check it out and maybe descend down into it, but I really hope nobody runs down there and places a cache nearby to advertise the location to the world. Somehow that seems a little unethical as the Forest Service has strived to keep its location secret. But it is on public land and it is not an ecologically sensitive area, so we have a right to go there, and in the long run it would be in our best interests to not ruffle too many feathers at the Forest Service. Just my opinion. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

I would highly recommend anyone thinking of actually going down into the Hell Hole to view the Oregon Field Guide video first to know what you are getting into. Not that it is that difficult, but it looks like it is something that you are not going to just walk down into. No specialized climbing gear is necessary, but a safety rope looks essential, as there are no hand holds to grab onto. And I don't think I would go down into it without some type of safety helmet and maybe the comfort of knowing you have health insurance. There is also a scramble down through a short rocky debris tunnel to get to the very bottom and the video showed them using another section of safety rope in this part too. With all the disclaimers aside, I have rope and a few hardhats I would be willing to bring along to any organized event in the future if I can make it. The closest campground is Kiahanie, just a few miles up the road. It has 21 tent/trailer sites. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

Peanuthead is right. I would highly recommend anyone thinking of actually going down into the Hell Hole to view the Oregon Field Guide video first to know what you are getting into. Not that it is that difficult, but it looks like it is something that you are not going to just walk down into. No specialized climbing gear is necessary, but a safety rope looks essential, as there are no hand holds to grab onto. And I don't think I would go down into it without some type of safety helmet and the comfort of knowing you have health insurance. There is also a scramble down through a short rocky debris tunnel to get to the very bottom and the video showed them using another section of safety rope in this part too. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on June 30, 2003 at 08:58 PM.]

Thanks Uplink. I was a little hesitant in proffering a theory to its location, but all the little tibits of info pointed to that sight. That old map is very similar to the one they showed on the top of the truck hood in the video and it only showed a small portion of it. The "cedar" and the nearby "pine" were visible and I couldn't quite figure that out. Looking at the old map, it was denotions for timber type. What also had me wondering is they changed and moved the names of the creeks from the original old map that dump into the north fork to the south. That old map is pretty cool and shows the location of many small logging or miners cabins that are obviously not there anymore. So when the ranger said in the video they were at High Prairie, it was a ruse after all. Looks like I know where I am going camping later this summer!!! The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

Yahoo! Looks like the case may be solved? I was downtown doing a fine cache by Bodoni yesterday and thought I would do a little research at the Library. The guys at the desk for the map room were very helpful, but after an hour of searching different possibilities, we came up empty handed. What I did find was a copy of the Oregon Field Guide video of the Hell Hole episode in 1996. I watched it several times last night, sure love my Sony VCR and its jog shuttle, and it offered a wealth of information and clues that they probably didn’t realize a determined cacher could pick up on. There are a few copies of the video at a few other branches, if someone wanted to check one out. It would be nice to have a second opinion on the observations I will list below, but everything in the puzzle seems to fit together. First thing, they show a custom map for a few seconds on the hood of the truck as they were standing around.It had the Hell Hole marked on it. There are no roads marked on the map, but there were the township section numbers. The Hell hole is marked in the NW corner of section 29. There is a small creek to the west and down at the bottom of the map you can see the North Fork and three creeks dumping into the river on the south side. I could just make out the name of one of the creeks and it looked like Plateau Creek There is also the name “Christy” on the map to the northeast of the hole. All these clues jive with the topo map. Christy Flats is to the NE of section 29. They also briefly showed an aerial map image of the Hell Hole on the hood of the truck. Pausing the video, I was able to match it up with the Expert GPS image on my computer. I was able to identify the general line of the hole, the texture of the trees on the image around the hole, the bare spots of ground nearby, the road to the south and the road to the north, a hard edged clearing just to the WSW of the hole and the river to the south. The sun shadows on their map and the teraserver image on my computer match up and confirm the hole is on a south facing slope. All this matches with the area around Section 29. There was also a short video clip of a plane flying over the hole. You could tell that the video was shot in the middle of the afternoon by the shadow of the plane on the ground. The shadow angle again indicates the hole is on a southerly slope. You could also see a small portion of the road to the north. Several other things that are mentioned in parts of the video that offer some clues and fit the target area: They mention they hiked in due east from the road. The Hell Hole is 1000’ above the highway below It is ½ mile from the river. There is a quick shot on the video where they are above the hole before they go down into it. It shows what may be Huckleberry Mtn. across the valley to the south. Again the suns position, to what looks like the SE (late morning) and the fact they are looking down into the valley indicates they are on a south slope to a ridge. I attached a geology map that shows the younger basalt flows (Qtba) and circled the target area. This seems to jive with the article posted above about the age of the rock at the hole. The only thing that seems odd, is at the very end of the video, one of the forest service men was talking and said the they were now 200’ below the top of High Prairie. None of the clues even comes close to matching anything around High Prairie and I was wondering if this was just a ruse to throw potential hunters off or he misspoke. He could have been referring to Christy Flats as a Prairie. Of course all this is still theory without seeing the hole in person and confirming the location and it is possible they could have put out some misinformation. But all the above clues and observations seem to mesh. I do want to say that after watching the video, I would not recommend putting a cache there. The rocks are extremely unstable and the rangers wore hardhats and needed ropes to get down into the hole. The last thing we neeed is for geocaching to get a bad rap from the Forest Service. If it is there I will enjoy checking it out sometime this summer, but as always, the hunt has been as much fun as finding the treasure! The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on June 29, 2003 at 03:00 PM.]

"F/16 and be there!!!" It's a photographers thing. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

quote:Originally posted by YankeeRage:I contacted the Hillsboro Parks department, they are posting 'warning' signs. But as these are new parks those might take a while. So, will the new signs also have warnings about : Mosquitos with the West Nile Virus. Ticks and Lyme Disease. Slipping hazards from slimy slugs on the trails. Caution about overly agressive geese that may bite you in the crotch if you run out of bread crumbs. And here I thought The Pacific Northwest was one of the safest placed to wander around in the outdoors. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

quote:Originally posted by Gloom:Again, going from my 5-or-so year old memory of the show, it should be roughly parallel to the slope. That is what I meant to say when I posted the pic this morning, but I was in a rush to leave for work. To elaborate more, the original article calls it a rift, which indicates it is something that is sliding or opening up as it pulls away from the slope in a parallel direction along the contour lines. Below is an example of the type of anamoly I have been looking for. This is clearly a piece of land that has pulled away from the slope and as you can see from the topo image, is not a streambed or ravine. It runs across the slope and not downhill. The newer dirt road to the south in the aerial image doesn't show on the older topo map. You can also see the shadowing to the left of the circles indicating the small creek and dry ravine. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

It looks to me that this is just one of many dry ravines running down off off High Prarie. If you look at the topo image you can see how the terrain slopes around the ranch buildings and then drains into the ravine. If you look carefully on the aerial image you can see another small ravine and its shadowing on the very left side. This is the ravine in the topo image below the red #5. My thinking is that the Hell Hole sounds like it is not something that is running perpendicular to a steep slope or a product of erosion from water running down a slope. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

Excerpts from a recent article in the Seattle Times about rough skinned newts: It's hard to imagine this sweet-looking creature with the face of E.T. is 10,000 times more toxic than a slug of cyanide, but so it is. The orange-bellied, rough-skinned newt is one of the most poisonous creatures going. The merest bite creates a severe burning sensation in the mouth. Every known mammal spits them out instantly — except men in bars who have been drinking heavily. A 29-year-old from Oregon went into a bar July 9, 1979, and, on a bet, swallowed a rough-skinned newt. He was dead before the day was out. No known antidote exists for a newt's poison, packed by both juveniles and adults in glands in their skin, and even their eggs. The poison is tetrodotoxin, or TTX, and is found in Japanese puffer fish and some species of South American frogs. Taricha granulosa, not surprisingly, have no predators, but the common garter snake is immune to their poison. The newt's deadliest foe is the automobile. Newts are slaughtered every spring as they cross roads to head to their breeding ponds. Habitat destruction is also doing them in. Washington's amphibians are actually in greater peril than those in any state except California, Oregon and Nevada. Here, 32 percent of the state's amphibian species are at risk, a recent Nature Conservancy study found. Rough-skinned-newt populations are an exception, so far. They are among the five most-common amphibians in Washington, and also one of the easiest to find and identify. Up to 8 inches long, and lizardlike in appearance, newts could pass for baby dinosaurs with their rugged, grainy skin, and brontosauruslike body. They are the only salamander that is active above ground, out in the open and during the day — and slow-footed to boot. Why not, when you are poison-packed? Rough-skinned newts hunt their food, walking the forest floor and wagging their heads from side to side in search of snails, small slugs, insects and other invertebrates, which they bag with their sticky tongues. Virginia rails and blackbirds that share the boggy realm of the newt don't even come near as the newts swagger about on land, with their all-terrain, hand over hand, four-wheel amphibian drive. Eat one, and those birds would be dead in 10 minutes. Scientists have exhaustively examined the newt's astounding toxicity, learning by force-feeding macerated newt skin to various animals that a single newt contains enough neurotoxin to keel over 1,500 white mice. Scientists have tested 30 potential predators of newts, from belted kingfishers to great blue herons to bullfrogs and fish, finding in every case that the newt killed them. Sometimes the newt crawled unharmed out of the gasping mouth of the deceased within minutes of being swallowed. A sample of the poison had lost none of its potency when examined 11 months after storage. Rough-skinned newts are common from the Coast Range near San Francisco through the entire west side of Washington all the way to Southeast Alaska. They are found as far east in Washington as Klickitat County. They are one of the most common amphibians in Western Washington, along with Pacific tree frogs, red-legged frogs and long-toed salamanders. Handling them is a treat: They have soft, smooth skin, sweet faces and delicate, grasping arms and toes. It's OK to pick them up, but don't mistakenly brush your fingers to your lips or mouth until you wash your hands thoroughly. Light as a ballpoint pen, a newt will rest in the palm, climbing with its forearms up to the index finger to have a look around. Look it in the eye, and the newt stares right back with a wise expression, not seeming a bit worried. Placed back on the ground, it walks off sedately, with a one-bite-and-you're-dead strut. If startled, newts will sometimes display a so-called unken reflex: They shut their eyes and arch their back and tail upward to display a cantaloupe-orange belly. It's a warning to a potential predator of the newt's toxicity: The combination of a dark-brown, almost-black back and orange belly is a well-known Mr. Yuk sign in nature. For all their toxicity, their appeal is undeniable. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

That's cool!!! Maybe we are getting closer. Just in case the feds are watching this thread, I think I'll close my blinds before going to bed and put on my aluminum foil cap. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

Well, if anyone does go up there looking for it, there is a cool little hidden campsite just across the bridge on the left side where Chtisty Creek dumps into the North Fork. That whole section of river along the scenic Auferhide Drive is most beautiful. It's like driving through an Old Growth canyon with the trees towering above you on both sides and the road stretching far off into the distance. And in the Fall it is even more spectacular with the vine maple ablaze with color. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

OK, I'm a little confused here. If we assume the coords listed by Moun10Bike for the township mentioned by Maps-R -Us, then that grid covers nearly none of the North Fork, let alone any of the highlands or upper valley as described by the the article. At any rate this is a Hell of a lot more fun than trying to figure out the location of the Rose Festival medallion! And come to think of it. Maps-R-Us does work for one of the government agencies that could be involved in the conspiracy to cover this up. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on June 25, 2003 at 10:08 PM.]

Several observations from the article Moun10bike posted: It talks about ferns on the shadier east wall, which indicates it has a more north/south orientation. It mentions how the lava flow oozed down the upper North Fork valley. So it must be up near Moolack mountain or at least NE of Oakridge. It mentions how the older lava flow cradled the new flow. Which would indicate that it may be lower to the valley floor. It also mentions glacial movement as a possible factor in its' creation. Which also means it may be located lower on the valley floor. Just some food for thought. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

So, are you making some high tech mirror over your bed or is this in some other room in your house. That disco ball light would probably create some interesting effects hanging from the ceiling. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

quote:Originally posted by Gloom:Hmm.... this looks interesting: http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=10&x=2722&y=24198&z=10&w=2 Or maybe it's the line running North-South in http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=12&x=677&y=6052&z=10&w=2 image. Though I think that this looks more like a stream Yes, one is a stream.You can see the downslope of the ridges running down towards the stream. I've been using Expert GPS to surf the area and it is nice because you can click an active point on the aerial map then toggle to a topo map and see exactly what you are looking at to determine if it is a stream, which usually has some shadowing from the trees along its' length, or something else. You can toggle using terraserver, but you are not pinpointed to an exact spot, so it's sometimes hard to determine what/where you are looking at on the images. It doesn't sound like the rift is that wide, but being fairly long, it should create a faint shadow line along its' length. Then again, if the aerial image was taken at the time of day that the sun's shadow was parallel to the line of the rift, no shadowing at all may occur and it might not show on the images. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

Having two 'new' icons is a little confusing and busy. Maybe there could be a different way to denote a recently found cache such as a symbol or bold colored font? All the changes are great, It's like having your cake and eating it too. Thanks Jeremy! The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on June 20, 2003 at 11:17 PM.]

oregone is like watching one of Emerils cooking shows when he says "lets kick it up a notch!". His cache logs are the spice that makes geocaching so much more entertaining. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup [This message was edited by Navdog on June 19, 2003 at 07:49 PM.]

Cool!!! It's great to hear TPTB endorse this idea. Integration of my photography with geocaching is what I really enjoy and is what I try to feature on our moondog3.com site. Looking forward to more details. They say a picture is worth a thousand words and I have seen some great pics in the gallery that embodies what geocaching is all about. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

References to lava flows, glacial movements, highlands above the North Fork, and it is well into the Cascade snow zone may indicate it is up around the Moolack Mtn. area. If it is up to a 1/2 mi. long and fairly wide in spots, Terra server imagery may show some traces. Knowing if it ran cross-slope or down-slope would be a big help. Being called a rift, to me, would indicate it ran perpendicular to the downslope. My question is why has it been omitted from maps as early as 1930. Hardly seems like they would have cared that much about it back then or is this just a ruse to keep the curious from bothering to look for it. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

quote:Originally posted by pdxmarathonman:A little safer, and probably less intriguing are Hole in the Ground and Crack in the Ground Both Hole in the Ground and Crack in the Ground have caches and are worth the effort to visit. The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup