chemfed
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Posts posted by chemfed
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Eagle Scout, 1983. Troop 248, Atlanta Area Council
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i'll give it a shoot
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OK, I wasn't caching in a kilt, but I was outside
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I think I'll use it to hide a cache here:
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only a real boob would use something like that!
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Hey Cuff&stuff, check your email for a message from another CMA weenie!
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Currently driving an ’03 Chevy Tahoe 4x4. but this is what I really want!
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Earlier in this threads many pages they talk about cutting open a glof ball and how some squirt out a liquid and others just explode.
Whew! before the post was a post about fake dog poop.... never seen fake dog poop with a pressurized liquid core! Real dog poop yes, but fake, no!
Little Johnnie accidentally breaches the pressurized liquid core!!!
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Reasonable suspicion?
Where I live and work we don't have such a thing.... we have probable cause. I can't detain someone based on suspicion. I must have probable cause or a warrant.
Dare I ask where in the USA someone can be detained for reasonable suspicion?
A closed and posted US military post. We have signs at all entrances stating that all persons entering are subject to search at any time. We had a briefing by the AUSA and found out all we had to have was “reasonable suspicion” to detain and search. You pretty much surrender your 4th admendment rights at the gate. Of course, after 12 hours we were required to charge the individual or kick them loose.
Here is where most of the authority comes from” 50 USC 797:
§ 797. Security regulations and orders; penalty for violation
Release date: 2003-08-01
(a) Whoever willfully shall violate any such regulation or order as, pursuant to lawful authority, shall be or has been promulgated or approved by the Secretary of Defense, or by any military commander designated by the Secretary of Defense, or by the Director of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, for the protection or security of military or naval aircraft, airports, airport facilities, vessels, harbors, ports, piers, water-front facilities, bases, forts, posts, laboratories, stations, vehicles, equipment, explosives, or other property or places subject to the jurisdiction, administration, or in the custody of the Department of Defense, any Department or agency of which said Department consists, or any officer or employee of said Department or agency, or of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics or any officer or employee thereof, relating to fire hazards, fire protection, lighting, machinery, guard service, disrepair, disuse or other unsatisfactory conditions thereon, or the ingress thereto or egress or removal of persons therefrom, or otherwise providing for safeguarding the same against destruction, loss, or injury by accident or by enemy action, sabotage or other subversive actions, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be liable to a fine of not to exceed $5,000 or to imprisonment for not more than one year, or both.
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Every such regulation or order shall be posted in conspicuous and appropriate places. -
Another classic, Dick and Jane go Geocaching
http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...topic=48812&hl=
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???? Uniformed FBI agents?
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Another question: Was this a custodial interview and did the cacher ever ask he was free to leave?
I took it to mean that they were wearing the windbreakers that seam to be in fashion.
The custodial issue is the big one. I wonder if they had his license during the twenty minutes of questioning, talking amongst themselves, calling the issue in, et al. If they did, it would be reasonable to believe that one was not free to leave.
A policeman can only ask your name if it is a Terry stop. If it is a Terry stop you cannot leave, you are temporarily detained. There is no question that the OP's case was like this.
True, but a "Terry Stop" usually involves a check for weapons. Also, many times the line when a custodial interview becomes a non-custodial interview is often blurred.
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???? Uniformed FBI agents? Never heard of such a critter unless it was a logoed shirt with “FBI” and maybe Royal Robbins pants. Uniformed USG officers are usually 085 or 083 series and I don’t recall the FBI having any of these guys doing patrols, I could be wrong. The USG also has all kinds of badged, gun toters that have nothing to do w/ the FBI, until I changed jobs, I had USG credentials, badge, gun, body armor and all kinds of other toys and I can’t even spell FBI.
Might have been another agency.Another question: Was this a custodial interview and did the cacher ever ask he was free to leave?
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I guess it has already happened at least twice, see these threads:
http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...20crossing&st=0
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...79-3df0ad25df2e
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I don’t think it is a case of paranoia, but a case of awareness and acceptance. To each his own. I pray that I am way off base with this. But, some times I feel like Cassandra! Anyway, thanks for the replys.
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Other outdoor sports/hobbies have had their encounters with violent crimes as they became more popular and wide spread. We have seen the Appalachian Trail murders (seven at last count), the Shondra Levy murder and Central Park jogger assault, and I am sure that mountain bikers have been victims of violent crimes. As geocaching becomes more and more prevalent and hiders are pushing more caches into remote and obscure places, how long before the inevitable nexus takes place: A geocacher is seriously injured by an attack, raped or murdered by criminals. I don’t want this to become another “gun while geocaching” debate, that horse has been beaten, cried over, and buried. I hate to be a pessimist, but we have seen cachers die on the hunt, how long until the unthinkable happens? I hope this post doesn’t get locked, because I feel this a real issue that should be discussed. Thanks in advance for your replies!
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Here is what I’m looking a going to. I was able to talk my employer into buying a bunch of them for “professional use”. It is a ten-pocket foresters mesh vest in blaze orange. We’ll see how it works out.
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Clearpath, great post a/b the KC incident. In the use of deadly force there is a thing called the Force Continuum it outlines what in necessary for the use of deadly force. It doesn’t matter if you are using a firearm, pointy stick, ammo can, softball bat, or multi-tool, it still applies. It did not sound line the “victim” in the KC incident had any business stopping and confronting the other individuals. By getting out of his vehicle he escalated the situation. When a person decides to carry a weapon for defense he has a moral and legal duty to become a “yellow coward” as far as conflicts go and to walk away from an altercation if possible. The AOJ force continuum is as follows:
Below was copied from http://www.spw-duf.info/force.html
The Golden Rule of Deadly Force in Self-Defense
In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents.
Deadly force is that force which could reasonably be expected to cause death or grave bodily harm.
Grave bodily harm generally refers to crippling injuries. In some jurisdictions it is also known as great bodily injury.
When someone says, "Your presence offends me, I'm going home to go get my gun to shoot you," the threat is not immediate.
When someone says, "Your presence offends me, if you return here tomorrow, I will be waiting with my gun to shoot you," the threat is not otherwise unavoidable. Even if you must return to that location, you have ample time to contact law enforcement.
The other definitions require a little more explanation.
Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy
In order for you to claim that you were reasonably in fear for your life (or the lives of others you had a right to protect), three conditions must be met:
1. Ability: The assailant(s) must have the ability to inflict death or grave bodily injury.
This could be by means of a weapon, such as a knife, gun or club. This could also be by means of a weapon such as a brick, a scissors, a two-by-four, a bottle, etc.
This could be by means of a disparity of force, such as male versus female, much larger body size, special skills like being a professional fighter or by larger numbers (a group attack).
2. Opportunity: The assailant(s) must have the opportunity to employ the ability.
A group threatening to beat the tar out of you, which is behind a ten-foot-high chain link fence, lacks the opportunity, even though they have the ability.
A man with a baseball bat yelling threats at you from across a busy four-lane street lacks the opportunity, even though he has the ability. When he starts crossing the street, the dynamic starts to change.
An average person 21 feet (seven yards) from you can cover that distance in less than two seconds, so a person threatening you with a knife, say eight yards away, with no obstacles between you, has both the ability and the opportunity.
3. Jeopardy: The assailant must be behaving in such a manner that a reasonable person, knowing what you know at the time, would conclude that he is placing you in jeopardy. In some jurisdictions this is also known as motive.
A friend who takes out the latest addition to his knife collection to show to you has both ability and opportunity. What is lacking is the reasonable perception that he is placing you in jeopardy by showing you his latest acquisition.
As in the question of how far away is an assailant with a contact weapon still a threat, prior knowledge is a key element in judging your reasonableness. If you try to cite knowledge you didn't acquire until after the incident, it will not be allowed in court. Documented training can make the difference.
Ability, opportunity and jeopardy form a tripod. If all three are not present simultaneously, you cannot prove justifiable use of force. However, there's more ...
The Mantle of Innocence
I'm sure you've seen at least one Western movie where the evil gunfighter forces the innocent rancher to go for his gun. When the rancher is beaten to the draw, all the bad guy's buddies swear to the sheriff that the rancher went for his gun first.
Hollywood script writers notwithstanding, the law generally will not tolerate this kind of behavior. If you go armed in society and seek arguments and fights, you may find a judge or jury ruling that you gave up your mantle of innocence. If this is their finding, you will not be judged to have acted in self-defense.
Robert Heinlein's contention that an armed society is a polite society, like most truths, has two edges. If you choose to go armed, you'd better be polite, as well.
The Innocence of Others
While the law generally allows you to use deadly force in defense of other innocent, human life, some jurisdictions may actually define whom you have a right to protect. Again, I am not an attorney, so get some legal advice.
From a practical standpoint, undercover police officers have been known to have been mistaken for criminals, not only by their "prey," but also by good samaritans. On more than one occasion, a good samaritan, armed without the benefit of a license, has gotten into some deep trouble. In addition to legal issues, you may also face difficult ethical and moral questions about coming to the rescue of apparent victims who are not known to you.
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The BGs either move elsewhere to rape and pillage or get jobs in the food service industry.
Now that was uncalled for, off-topic, and just plain mean.
Take it back!
I used to work in the food service industry, don't make me come over there to rape and pillage!
The food service comment was an attempt at sarcasm. We all know that failed criminals become lawyers. -
FWIW, my shots fired in anger experience:
One evening in 1989 the following incident happened to me. I was employed as a private investigator in Atlanta working insurance fraud cases. My wife and I lived in an apartment complex across from the MARTA Brookhaven station a few miles north of the Buckhead district. This was not usually considered a bad part of town.
My wife and I had settled down early and planned to spend a quiet evening reading. At approximately 8:30, I heard what could be described as a blood-curdling scream of terror, a sound that is very distinct to those who have been unfortunate enough to hear one. Thinking something real bad was going down, I grabbed the closest weapon, a 12 gauge, 18.25-in. barrel, loaded with three in magnum #3 turkey loads. The screams were coming from the back of our building where each unit had a balcony. I peeked out of my door and saw that the porch was clear and then opened the door and proceeded outside on to my deck. My deck was elevated about six feet above the ground giving me a good view of the area behind the building. What I saw from about 25 yards was a black male struggling with a woman and beating her about the head and neck. The attacker also was holding a small object that looked like a knife or small pistol to the woman's head. The whole time he kept saying, "Give it up, give it to me!" I thought, "Holy @&*%$, she's being raped!"
Not wanting to lose sight of the victim, I opted not to exit my front door and go around the building. I raised the shotgun and ordered the BG to release the woman. He just turned his head and looked at me. I then told him once again to release her or I would kill him. This was all bluff on my part, being that I had the wrong gun and load for the situation. The assailant once again looked at me and continued to plummet the hapless victim. Knowing that I could not shoot the attacker, and not wanting to loose sight of the victim, my options were limited. I decided to point the scattergun toward the ground below my deck and discharge a round in a safe direction. When the 12 gauge went off, it sounded like a grenade went off in the small quadrangle behind the apartment buildings.
The BG looked up with eyes a wide as saucers and decided to vacate the area in a rapid fashion, i.e. elbows and a**hole. I told my wife, who had come downstairs by now, to call 911. I asked the woman if she could walk and she replied yes. I told her to come around to my front door and my wife would let her it while I covered her. My wife was put on hold to the Dekalb Co. PD. She was finally able to get the Atlanta PD and they passed on the info to the Co. PD, whose jurisdiction we were in. Somewhere in the translation the whole situation turned into, "SHOTS FIRED, POSSIBLE DOMESTIC." Units were now rolling. I got the victim inside and locked the doors. Knowing the police were on the way, I unloaded the 12 gauge and placed in on the couch with the action open.
About five minutes later we were startled by pounding on our door. My wife was attending the victim, who had some pretty bad bruising on her face and neck, so I opened the door. I was greeted by about half a dozen Beretta 9mms pointed at me. I was ordered to sit down and not move while statements were taken. When the officers learned that I was in fact the good-guy, they apologized. I told them that wasn't necessary. An ambulance came and took the woman to the hospital and I completed my statement. Before leaving the patrol Sargent said he wishes there were more folks like me who were willing to get involved. As he was walking out the door, he asked I was interested in selling the shotgun to him. My wife looked at me, then turned to the Sargent, smiled and said, "No thanks officer, I think we'll be keeping this one."
As for the crime itself, It was a strong-arm robbery, not a rape, the weapon, a black plastic comb.
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removed hotlink since original image was replaced.
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With the nature thing, I was talking more about animals like this:
He's certainly not trying to blend into his surroundings. He's making his presence quite known, and the markings indicate to potential predators that he's poisonous. That defense also works so well that other animals will survive if they look like a poisonous animal but aren't really poisonous themselves.
Still slightly off topic
If you're darwinistic in nature:
*Some froggies mutate and develop poisonous skin.
*Big animals eat the frogs, but the big animals that eat the poisonous froggies die.
*Some big animals develop an instinct for avoiding poisonous froggies, and pass that instinct on to their young.
*Some poisonous froggies develop bright markings indicating that they are poisonous and pass that on to their young.
*Bright poisonous froggies flourish and Big animals that avoid eating bright poisonous froggies flourish
Later on, a non-poisonous froggy mutates and looks like the bright poisonous froggy. Since he doesn't get eaten and his brothers do, all of his offspring look like bright poisonous froggies.
Thanks for clueing me in to the benefits of concealed weapons.
Or another twist. Let’s imagine we live in a state that allows its citizens to carry concealed weapons. Some people take this bold step while most do not. The bad guys (BG), not knowing how this will affect their vocation, continue their nefarious deeds. Early on in the process, the BGs pick individuals who, at first, appear to be soft targets, the elderly, women, etc. In the past these sheep were easy to cull. As it turns out, these sheep were armed with concealed weapons. The ‘sheep’ were able to engage the BGs and win the day. This is not a one-time occurrence, but rather happens time and time again to the BGs. Many of these events are not reported to the police b/c no one is injured in the encounter. Now the BGs are worried, they no longer can tell at a glance who is a soft target and who is a hard target. They can’t tell sheep from sheepdogs. Naturally, they assume that many of the sheep are really sheepdogs in disguise. The BGs either move elsewhere to rape and pillage or get jobs in the food service industry. This is how the actions of the few positively benefit the many. Concealed carry provisions will always force the BGs to wonder when choosing a victim. Some correlation has been made with CCW and lower crime rates for this very reason.
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Geocaching anyone?
In case y'all are wondering, yes it is me whith all those nasty guns!
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NO NO NOOOO! We would also be forced to see the spectral Joefrog goosing and the Yellow Horned Unicorn Man! Oh, the horror!
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I think Mr. Austin Powers said it best:
Every such regulation or order shall be posted in conspicuous and appropriate places.
Might have been another agency.
When Geocaching, Do You Carry A Firearm?
in General geocaching topics
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Yes, within the confines of the law of course! FWIW, I'm CCW legal in 29 states, it is not as rare as some might think.