klaus23

I don't consider that a parting shot. That was a civil response to the last post you made, and since the thread was going nowhere I closed it. I've had a long trawl back through your posts Mopar. It seems you seek confrontation in just about every thread you enter. In some cases you are downright abusive. What's the point? I'm sorry, I resent being mentioned within this thread. There was no parting shot taken. It just annoys you that the discussion is closed as far as I am concerned.

I tried my best on their website but can't seem to find reader's letters. Hope you get a copy of the letter. PS: I googled him too... seems to be a handy right-back, plays a spot of hockey as well

Correct me if I'm daft, but is it not a pretty decent reflection of population density? I mean, the mountains in Wales, lots of Devon and Northern Scotland have nothing. In comparison, the south coast, London, the northern cities around Manchester/Liverpool and the 'M4' corridor of Bristol/Bath/Swindon/Reading can easily be spotted. In Wales you can see Cardiff/Newport/Swansea and way up north, Newcastle-on-Tyne can be picked out easily. (edited for geographical boo-boo)

How can you comment on this when you have no idea what has happened? You're assuming I have a major issue when I don't. As I said, two very minor discussions were had with the two UK admins. When I said non-productive, I mean that we never got to the meaningful dialogue stage. By that I mean that we did not put a solid case together, and thus a constructive discussion could never take place. That's what I mean by non-productive.

Curiosity really is getting the better of you. With all due respect, I cannot discuss specifics here. This is out of repect and consideration for the members of my community with whom I am discussing this (in a closed forum, before you go looking). It is also out of respect for the UK Admins who I am not, under no circumstances, going to undermine in public. It is also due to the fact that none of it has anything whatsoever to do with you. Also, one of my friends from the Irish forums tested the water on one of these "general" forums by seeking advice about one specific issue we are hoping to address. The thread descended into nonsensical drivel before producing one, single authoritative answer. Which is why all of this will not be discussed in public.

You're right. You really can't get more directly relevant than that.

This is what I was hoping to hear. Cheers Hydee. 'We' do expect to make a case at an undetermined point in the future. The point of this thread was to see if anyone had been in the situation that 'we' feel we are in, where a community feels the need for a local approver. I do realise that in US terms, Ireland is not exactly busy in cache volume, and that this is the prime reason for adding an approver. Since I now have a response from two people at Groundspeak, I am still hoping to speak to someone who has been in this situation before, to see if we even have a solid case to make.

The Irish language (or Irish-Gaelic) is spoken fluently by less than 7% of the population. There is also Ulster-Scots, which is recognised as a language and is spoken by less than 2% of the people on the island. To date there is not a single cache page written in the either language in Ireland. Language, I'm afraid, does not enter into the discussion.

How about you read the post that started this whole thread. Does that apply to you or people in your area? Thought not. And Mopar...Mopar... (*sigh*) This is not a coup-d'etat. I, personally, am not trying to become the Irish approver.

I'll quote myself:

You're not listening at all, you're not reading my posts, you suffer from considerable bias and you're chastising me. To date, I/we have not even started talking to gc.com about this. When this happens, we will not be speaking to you, and you will not be replying to our submission, so go and ask yourself what your flaming is trying to achieve. In this thread, I have not criticised Groundspeak/Geocaching.com. I have not openly spoken about the vast majority of issues we are hoping to address. So that leaves you (without stating the obvious facts of a - you don't live on this side of the Atlantic and b - you only know 1% of the whole story) about as well-informed as Hans Blix. Acceptance is one thing - but this will come once this has been discussed openly with TPTB. In YOUR opinion this is hopeless. I believe that to be nonsense. Without wishing to open a book on Business Management, perhaps that's the way you would do things. In places where I have worked (and managed), contributions and suggestions from employees were not only welcomed, they were rewarded. The reverse psychology is - would you work for a company where nobody listened to you. No, you would not. Why not take off the blinkers and actually focus what I am trying to discuss here. I have taken note of your opinion - and repeating oneself does not make you correct.

Do you know if any people were ever able to make a valid case for a dedicated approver in their area? The selection process would take place after such a need was identified. I never mentioned volume, that was added to the discussion by Keystone Approver. The second issue I mentioned is one of a growing list. It was just used as a random example. I don't just want another approver. There has been rational discussion on this amongst people in Ireland. It hasn't been for irrational reasons, the conversation has developed out of Irish geocaching.com members' concern for the game on their island. This has nothing to do with autonomy or personal gain, and everything to do with the best interests of geocaching in Ireland. One of the things Mopar mentioned was local laws. How can a moderator/approver be aware of local laws when they do not live in the country where these apply?

Apart from Mopar, who A - advocates that I will not be able to find the answers I am looking for 'here' and then B - proceeds to lecture me on what he thinks anyway (with considerable bias towards the powers that be), can anyone add something more constructive to this. I'm sick of people's only argument being "that's the way it is, like it or not". This topic is moving off-topic but there has been some valuable insights from people. I'll leave the thread open to see how things go. edited for spelling

Hang on... this is not what is being discussed here. I am looking to hear from people who have already gone through this process - and not looking to go through it just yet. We (I initially, then another community member) approached the British approvers but were rebuffed. However, my initial approach was a simple query rejected on volume levels, and the second ended in semantics and dissection of individual caches, and neither were very productive. Which will be done, in time. I know what you mean, and I am not going to encourage discussion on the matter, and hope others do not follow this path. However, a reason I chose to post here was because this area of the forums are frequented by US cachers who's immediate focus on the issue I am highlighting would not be political.

I appreciate your position on the volume aspect. You're right, there's not a lot happening compared to other locations on the planet. I also appreciate that this is the only information that you have to hand and that this criteria (volume) is used in many areas as a factor in determining that another approver is needed. But there are other reasons why some of us feel that a local approver is needed and why we would, in the future and after internal discussions and discussions with the admins in Britain, like to have a formal discussion with Groundspeak on the matter. Again, I highlight that this is not an attempt to underline the status quo, and I am really looking for experiences that people had in this situation previously. The thread is not meant to be following a "we're looking for an approver" agenda.

No, this is not a question of politics. Absolutely not.

Look, I've done my homework already and have done searches before posting this and yes, I have read those threads. Without wanting to get too specific, there is a quote from someone in the first linked thread that reads: What if the approvers in my area had no knowledge of specialist regulations in my country as they live and cache in a different one, had no contact whatsoever with local heritage/environmental/government bodies and organisations in my country? AND had also approval rights over an area where a situation akin to civil war existed up to 1994 and where tensions are still bubbling. Cache placement in parts of Northern Ireland could be very sensitive indeed, and the authorisations are best left to a local person aware of local sensitivites. (edited for clarification - the above point is not the main issue at hand. It is one of several which I chose to highlight)

I guess if discussions were opened with Groundspeak the community would propose a candidate which would have to be agreed upon by the powers that be. Or in reverse, Groundspeak (or the current admins) highlight a person who they feel could carry out the task. If both parties cannot agree on a suitable candidate, the discussion would unfortunately have to be shelved until such a person can be found. I'm not exactly sure what you mean but I'll interpret the point and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The current local organisation is a group that evolved from a mailing list into a website and fully fledged forums. Most of the current members of this forum are active cachers based in Ireland and represent, at an estimate, 60% of the community. The other active cachers are aware of the forums and the site but, as they are free to do, keep themselves to themselves. I would dare to say that Ireland is too small to sustain another local focus group, but let's assume that two admins were elected after discussion with Groundspeak. A split develops between the current site and a group set up another focus group/seperate website. At this point, should they have objections to the elected admins it would have to go through Groundspeak, as these things currently do. There is, at present, no alternative cache listing site for Ireland, and there are no caches in the county listed on Navicache or Terracaching, or any other sites that I am aware of.

Can someone else add something more constructive and importantly, directly relevant to the questions I have posed. (referring to Mopar)

I'm Klaus23 from Ireland. The community here is currently in discussion to establish if there are wants and needs for dedicated, Irish-resident approvers/moderators - ideally two candidates, one based within the Republic of Ireland and another within Northern Ireland (still under British jurisdiction) - but with both interacting, and treating the island of Ireland as a geographical entity. Ireland (north and south) is currently moderated by two administrators based in Britain. I am not calling their performance into question, as they have done a superb job. There is just a growing feeling that members within our community that a locally based and focused admin might be better. I am looking to hear from communities worldwide who may have proceeded in a similar manner such as we would be hoping to do in the future. Ideally, you would have had a small community in your state/country to begin, followed by a growing but focused community, with the establishment of an association/forum group/local website, and then would have approached Groundspeak and made a representation on why you felt that the community in your area wanted or needed a dedicated approver. I would be interested to hear from you. If you do not want to air your views in this thread, please feel free to e-mail me through my profile. I also have MSN IM (listed on my profile) should you wish to use that medium. Please e-mail me first through my profile to advise you have added me as a contact. Also, this thread is not a venue for anti-Groundspeak/current approver/The Frog/whatever else diatribe. I am looking for mature and focused discussion. If you have had negative experiences and are posting in response to this thread please be concise and importantly... caaaalm

Bummer... sadly I can't make it down that day (30th) as I am finishing work on the 29th prior to my relocation to the UK and no doubt there'll be a few drinks to mark the occasion. Also, my girlfriend is coming over from Bristol to help me with the move, so it's likely the 30th will be spent driving to the airport. Best of luck with it. It's not the hardest cache in the world. I would have a slight concern about you going on your own, but realistically, it's a busy mountain and this time of year, on a weekend, there would be plenty of other climbers out on the route, God forbid, should anything happen. It was last found a couple of weeks back, and reported as being in place, and dry There is one very easy cache in Killarney town, Ninestar006, one in the nearby scenic Gap of Dunloe, and if you're going to Kerry you'd be silly not to drive the Ring of Kerry , and visit the three caches en route (clockwise) = Caragh View , the mesmerising Atlantic Whirlpool and Ring of Vinnie1 . Let me know if you need any directions or other general tourist advice

Ha HARR! I knew there was a reason why you were going to Kerry! What day are you climbing?

Believe it or not, I managed to spot this on my Christmas holidays near Bristol last year. Although the photos were taken on the Welsh coast near Barry, it was visible from Weston-Super-Mare, where we were walking at the time.

I'll be based in or around Portishead, SW of Bristol. Not far from the M5 and a short drive to either Exmoor or the Brecon Beacons. Looking forward to some new walks and doing some caching. 25,000 miles @ ca. 1 euro per 10 miles = 2500 euro Set of Dunlop SP1's = 190 euro Oil/Filter changes *4 (at home) = 240 euro Major Service = 200 euro Bodywork and paint after minor ding while caching = 350 euro Total = 3480 euro (£stg 2391) *shudders* Thanks for the kind comment - yes, I have agents all over the island lined up to look after my caches should something happen. Make sure you get in touch with everyone on the geocachingireland.com forums before you go - you may even find a willing tourist guide. I'd love to make it to the IOM sometime soon, sadly the ferry company's prices are a little steep.

Bonjour, A mon avis, il n'y a pas beaucoup des geocacheurs en France, et peut-etre ca c'est la raison pour l'absence des personnes qui parlent Francais sur cette Forum. Je sais pas si il y a un autre forum seulement en Francais, mais si vous avez des questions, je sais un geocacheur dans l'Alsace qui peut pouvoir vous aider. Son 'nom' est 'sTeamTraen'. Bon chance avec votre nouveau passe-temps! Meilleurs salutacions de l'Irlande