luv-me-jeep

Wow! I used to think that some people here were paranoid in their attempts to avoid the audit log. Reading this, I'm starting to understand. Why do you care if people look at your cache page. Isn't that why you created it? I don't get it, you put a page out on the Internet and you don't want people looking at it? What's the point? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LOL LOL LOL ...as mentioned I was just curious ....now reasoning makes sense. I play for the kids. not the points. I hardly "seek" because I am a lousy "finder" LOL I enjoy outdoors and thought this was a good way to encourage KIDS to get outside away from TV's, video games. and computers and enjoy Nature, but some kids Need motivation, to get out, an adventure is a good one, everyone like Indiana Jones etc..and for a way for Families to do things together was even more a motivational reason for placing my Geocaches, Families do so FEW things together. and I so worry about the Safety of the Family and esp the little cachers. why I became a CO, and not into Park and Grab Caches for Points. I like to take them out and around the Parks. it only became a concern when the Ripping started, that's all. I was just trying to find a way, to circumvent (sp)? the problem. before this all started, all I did was go, hmm wonder who was watching, maybe a TB owner, who knows, it really wasn't that important. as all discussions do, they can go way into left field. LOL After I have started on this at both forums, national and local, THOSE who also share my concern for the safety of the families and keeping the caches alive, have Contacted me and informed me THEY were watching my listings, and I appreciate thier honesty and thier concerns for this problem. Thank You, Everyone for the valuable information and caring. Let's keep geocaching Fun, Family oriented and FRIENDLY :-)

welcome aboard, such a fun sport hobby to add to hiking. really it is..... I am using the PM just till a rash of unfortunate intentional mugglings or what they call Ripping of caches, is over. I think Geocaching should be FREE. very few things in Life are FREE, well there's still the Gas.... to get there..LOL. the Explorist 110 I use. is one of the cheapest, I chose it for the black and white display, because the battery life is 9 hours, vs a color display life is only half that, per batteries. or charge... if you are using a TomTom. however the Explorist is not real user friendly and does not interface with the geocaching downloads well, you have to convert the format or manually input coords...a pain. I would suggest a simple Magellan, maybe a used one, someone had, after they moved up to a better model. I see them for about $40 used. I think I will switch this summer as well. Good Luck and Happy Hunting!

me too, was just curious, funny how things can get all blown up out of proportion. seems to me, when people object or protest too much, they must have something to hide, otherwise why not just be honest and say politely why, ya know? was just curious, too.... guess this was a pandora's box question. LOL LOL LOL

I do that all the time. Don't you? Once I've been to a cache and know what it's like, I like to see the responses of the people who come after me. If I really like the cache, then I like to see how others like it, too (I'm starting to feel that monologophobia, right about now). Also, I want to make sure I didn't do anything to mess it up for the next finder. and yes I will check on logs of DNF's from me to see if it indeed WAS there and that maybe I did not look good enough....and go try again. or to see if the CO has checked on it before I try again.

I look at the caches in my area all the time, including ones I've found already. I might be thinking about doing another by the same CO and reminding myself of his hiding "style;" I might have really enjoyed the cache and am curious to see others' logs (or the opposite); I might have dropped off someone's TB, curious if it's been picked up yet...or I could be stuck inside at work, reading cache pages for a few minute's break. IMO it's more likely that an innocent cacher has looked at the cache pages recently, because someone setting out to steal them would certainly know how to cover his/her tracks. thanks for the info, yeh TB I can see. just wondered. I know I will never catch this person. probability is highly unlikely. I have had many caches MIA before or just Vandalized. and critterized..LOL which was funny, a bite was taken out of everything.... must of been hungry! this was the first time I had deliberate notes left behind and several in the same park, on the same day. usually it is just hit and miss. 2 or 3 a year. now several a month. with pre written calling cards left behind. I just felt it was mean and could ruin a fun hobby that I did wish to continue, but not if it becomes more stressful than it is worth, ya know? Thanks for the insight. :-)

Depends on the maggot. If he's premium, then he probably already knows how to stay off of your audit list. Cachers and maggots both target all caches in a given area, so it's really not hard to see how someone else might look at all of the caches in an area just before the maggot strikes. I was the last finder on a bunch of caches that got taken, and I'm still thankful that the cache owners didn't jump to conclusions. yeh you Do have to add the circumstances of coincidence to the deduction. YES but if it happened again and again location after location, I would say YOU were being stalked or framed or otherwise. LOL...one that went missing, of my own, was right after I, did a C/O check. LOL was I being watched? I was the only car in the lot, who knows...I do understand it happens. now I have Just noticed, and again I won't know the reasons,and I am beginning to think some cachers have attitudes and enjoy the faceless internet too much, but since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago. why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure? yeh it will be hard to put 2+2 together and be accurate. but if we were all honest and open and not so doggone offensive, like MYOB, things would be smoother and less apt to jump to conclusions DYT?

LOL...how interesting.....makes it even more intriguing.

I roped one once then I realized an animal could get caught up in it and then I would be endangering wildlife, which would not be looked at too fondly, I think causing any kind of physical harm to, or creating a potentionally dangerous element to wildlife, just as digging is not allowed, will cause more caches to be banned from parks. we should not press our luck, so to speak. we have a few park systems here now, having a bad reaction to a disrespectful CO experiences and now we cannot geocache there any more. I'd say tread lightly, leave nature undisturbed the least amount possible. some parks here are even making our guidleines so tight, to prevent wear, such as no more than 3 feet from trail, and only one year, per permit, because of bad apple CO's.

I had that problem a CO placed thier cache smack dab in the mniddle of a small park, there was NO room for any more, could of been had they chosen a corner. I also have problems all the time, with those doggone stages, mystery caches, you do not know where they are, unless you solved it yourself, it can be frustrating, you can politley ask the reviewer, should I move north, south, east or west about how many feet, they will give you a clue. I do think they should reduce the span really to 350 feet.

some watchers play a game inside the geocaching game, they want to hit a cache as soon as another cacher does because they like the swag each leaves behind, if they use a theme. I know the Park Rangers do also watch, who issues the permits, to make sure you are performing your monthly check and there are no problems, but I was told no, you cannot see them. which I think is not right. the CO has the right.

but wouldn't you feel bad if a trigger happy resident thought a cacher was a thief, casing thier place? if you want to keep it, write a BIG note about possible hazzards, with seeking this cache. folks are very leary these days, can't blame them, I had 3 attempted break ins, one car stolen and one car vandalized. this is not a posh neighborhood... LOL...it has gotten so bad, that a nearby city has now made it illegal to even go thru curb trash, without a high visible permit sticker on your car, that you have to pay for, so residents don't freak out. if it were me, I would remove it.

This is truly bizarre behavior. I've never experienced this type of thing, but if someone contacted me about why I was looking at their cache page, I would tell them exactly why. And, if they asked why I looked at the page but never looked for the cache, I'd tell them exactly why as well. I'm guessing in a lot of cases, they are not going to like the answer. a prime example of the faceless internet I guess. some folks would take offense instead of being genuine and helping out a troubled CO, trying to piece together a problem. I am sure there are all kinds of legitmate reasons for not going after a cache viewed. but I was referring to a Pattern. a specific pattern, if a person was the last to view say 3-5 caches that dissappeared before anyone else logged it. over a period of time. what would be the chances an everyday member who likes to look and see what's new in the area, is going to be the LAST viewer, in each case? the probability would be very slim, unless they were being framed and how would a ripper know what ones YOU looked at? you have to look at the odds, but then again if somehow, a user-ripper can view a cache invisibly or has multiple usernames, which if all were PM's could be expensive, I find those odds very unlikely.

did the one, they broke it off somehow. so now most of my containers are no longer ammo cans. only a few and I was sure to leave that OUT of the description incase they were looking specifically for ammo cans but my last 3 were not, so that blows that theory. must just be the thrill. and I will re edit my logs to not inflate their egos, good point from a post

ok but how? you can't stake it out every day, cameras would violate public property privacy laws, I do not think a park would permit that, and I did not want to make the Parks think twice maybe discontinuing their geocaching permitting, by alarming them either. what would you do?

The audit log is useless for this purpose, it can be circumvented in several ways (apps, PQs, ...). edit: nonaeroterraqueous beat me to it. I guess a smart Ripper has ways to disguise that. but hopefully it is just a freebee member and a PM will detour it. somewhat.

Sorry to hear about this. I grew-up very near you (based upon your last cache placement). Hope it ends soon. THANKS! I do enjoy this hobby, I have added to my every day hiking. I go to yard sales and fleamarkets to find all kinds of things for my caches. nothing more dissappointing than a near empty cache container with maybe a wet sticker and a moldy eraser in it. I have been trying to promote better quality caches in the area, and it has been catching on.

true the keeping tabs on who is viewing is not fool proof and I would never accuse anyone just based on listing viewings and logs.....but it would be a start. I just don't think it would be a PM because you do have to use your real name and bank card, who would want to risk that? I would think it would most likely be a freebee member, with a fake ID and anonymous email account, to hide thier true ID, and not be tracked. however, I do have thier calling card, and handwriting. well at least of this person. maybe some day I can match it up, it was very unique. and they not only left a note via index card, as an intentional message drop, as I went thru the log book in the back they did "sign it" a vulgar username that does not exist. handwriting matches exactly. if they were a legit cacher gone bad, I can look thru old logbooks match it up. if no one else in the area, and I am going to check logs of other caches in close areas to see if they are showing cache destruction, if not then I can assume I was targeted, for some reason. why go after my 4 caches in 3 parks when there are many caches in those same parks? the only outcome, if this persists, will be less big caches, from folks who put out large containers with lots of swag. I do it for the kids. other co's will then resaturate the areas with smaller and micro caches that will have no reward for the rippers and cater more to geocachers who are after points vs families who bring thier kids to find a treasure. so although the number of caches will not go down, the quality will. nothing against micro caches, I just can't see youngsters getting into looking for them. they want a treasure, a prize. they could care less about points as thier parents do. as far as the advice of cameras, well unless you have Park or City permission, I imagine that would violate a number of privacy laws, unless it was on your own property. any other ideas? see I am a lousy "finder" of caches, LOL I have more fun in "hiding" them.

LOL..... I thought Mugglers were just Hikers we were NOT any type of Mmember who just happened to find a cache while hiking, like kids.... and destroy it. so Rippers are Members who destroy ot steal caches, so what do we call Rippers who do things to our caches to make them dangerous? geo-terrorists?

** Is this happening to other people in your area, or just your caches? I don't know about everyone else, but I did post a query to my Local geoforum. Geochums, in Ohio. USA just to see, if anyone else in this area is also experiencing a high volume of theft, aka Ripping or to determine if I, ( or anyone else who is experiencing this)or can determine if it is indeed, a member who has a personal vendetta, of some kind. so many troubled people out there. I tired to narrrow down any possibilities and there was only one geo member who would always have something negative to say in thier logs about my caches, but has stopped caching 2 years ago according to thier logs. so for now, I know of no disgruntled geo members. but that is a good point.

I thought about this but for another reason. as mine was leaving very nasty pre handwritten index cards in the spot, what if they start putting HARMFUL items, that could injure, or drugs in our containers? I check often but you can't every day. so I figure a police report may not catch them but will be a first step, incase these rippers turn into some kind of dangerous geo terrorists and plan to harm others, innocent cachers, by making our geocaches a booby trap as some kind of sick prank? ya know? scary thought and would then be the motivation for grounspeak to make geocaching paying membership only so we can TRACK, who's been to our Listings, but has not logged a Find, before the unfortunate event happens.

but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right, but then again as I fear, they may have already mass downloaded coords and to save your previous listings that were under free membership, so to protect all you have out there, you then must MOVE them all, relist new coords, under the Premium Membership, thus messing up thier game plan, right????

Many good Points indeed! Rippers huh??? for sure! I had no choice but to upgrade to Premium. there is a Ripper who is a Member,--so a ripper is a muggler who is a member-- right? that is now FACT. hopefully just a Freebee, who is deliberately destroying caches, I have has 3 in a month, alone and many others before. How did I come to this conclusion? Today I went to look for them. The nasty NOTE they left behind in the Location was not just scribbled in the Logbook, it was hand written on a New Index Card, in the spot where the cache was missing! Nobody was just by chance hiking with crisp note cards in thier pocket in the woods, LOL, unless they had Premeditated Intent to do this, and had Access to Coordinates. I take pride in my Geocaches and try to make them extra nice, music CD's, Movies, etc... Replacing them is getting too expensive. at least I can SEE who looks up my caches now. Shame many of my Finders are Freebee members. but then again about $3 a month isn't that bad. Hoping more will JOIN the Premium Plan. oh well, I'll give this a try, Leave the ripped ones temp disabled for a while. then archive and just list new ones, in the 500ft area reserved for that Cache Location. Thanks for all the Good Advice! LMJ

Wondering if soon Geocaching may have to resort to all paying members only, to discourage what has been a series of Muggling. or I should say Serial Muggling.... since one has to be a FREE registered member to see the coords, it can't just be your passer surfer. we been experiencing a high volume of caches dissappearing. they are hidden well. at first I thought, someone was figuring the locations by the hints, so I eliminated them. some were heavy ammo cans, no raccoon has carried it off. and the other day, I had two at the same park, both, go MIA. not just DNF..left behind was just the log book, with a not so nice note left behind. I doubt if anyone is following geocachers around in the woods, as per the many parks I have been having this happen, they must be getting the coords, which means, they must be a trusted member to play by the rules. unfortunately, premium membership, reduces the number of Finders, but does protect the coords, from just anyone who may have freebee joined with malicious intent. sad. I was just wondering, just how many others are experiencing this, as Geocaching has grown in the public eye and if often featured in articles and on television, if mugglers are catching on, and have found a mean way, to play a game with our caches? many parks do not permit premium caches, and that also limits where you can hide them. so I am curious, A. how wide spread is the problem? and B. what can we do about it? besides a Premium fee? sadly this is taking the fun out of the game, and becoming an expense to keep replacing. of course I change the locations, to prevent repeat muggling, but it doesn't take long before another has dissappeared. welcoming CO's inputs. thanks

Rejuvenate the Geocache Maps with NEW Caches Galore! I have noticed a few problems these days with the Geocaches in my (NE Ohio, USA) or any given area. Infact I am willing to Bet, this scenerio is the SAME all over the World. When Geocaching first started, it was great, now, everytime you check your map, It is the same ol' same ol'. Caches that have been sitting out for 3+ years, some way longer. Everyone who Caches in the area have already hit them, except for a few passer by vacationers or newbies. so they sit and sit. Some Geocachers have not the gas to venture more than 50 miles to cache or want to stay close by, but to have stuff to do with the kids, on a weekend. Plus allot of the Caches that have been out there, are empty or close it, maybe a few moldy stickers, probably no pen, just a disappointment. I have been attempting to Revitalize my area, by making an example, and trying get other CO's enthused, to archive any cache older than 2 years, and put out NEW ones. Rejuvenate the Area, and raise the bar and add more than 2-3 swag, really FILL it. Make this an exceptional year for Geocaching, bring back the FUN! esp since so many folks cannot afford vacations this year and get rid of all to Old Stagnate Caches just sitting and rotting and rusting. SO far, the response from other Cachers, in NEO have not been very enthusiastic, saddly. I think CO's have become lazy, and unmotivated...not only towards putting new ones out, replacing the old, but even with maintenance. I couldn't believe when I reported a cache was empty of swag and no pen, this year the CO commented, "gee there was stuff in there when I put it out" goes to show you my case in point. We need to not only Archive those old not longer frequently hit caches an put out new exciting ones, and generously fill them and make a extra effort to keep on top of them. And I am not just talking the easy Micro dash and cache. I mean fun ones for kids with lots of swag. Time to Rejuvenate the Geocaching Maps with Re-Populate it with hundreds NEW Caches in EVERY AREA around the world...get rid of the OLD! ..what do you say? Let's go for it make 2012 a Super Caching Year.