68-eldo

Tourist standing on the beach at Waikiki ask the life guard "What’s the elevation around here?". Don't need a surveyor to figure that one out.

One of my first benchmark recoveries was TU1419. If you go to the google satellite view you will see why cameras were not allowed. In this area the marines are authorized to use lethal force. But as a 34 year employee there I knew what I could do and what I could not. I no longer have my CAC card so I won’t be doing much more military bases unless I do a visit request. It’s vary unlikely I will be able to go back to this specific area but I may be able to do less sensitive areas on some of the other bases around here. If you don’t violate any rules (especially security rules) there should be no problem recovering benchmarks on a military base. By the way, camera phones are also not allowed. On this base if they found you with a camera phone they would confiscate the phone and review the pictures on the phone. If there were no pictures of the base on the phone they would let you have the phone back with a warning. If they found pictures of the base the phone would be destroyed with a large hammer. No word on what they would do to you in that case.

Your right it is up above all the descriptions in the history section.

While that is true it is my experience if you put any text in the text box the GOOD / POOR / NOT FOUND is deleted. For example when I submitted TU1416 my intention was to report it as good with the additional information about the name change of the street. However what came out was “STATION RECOVERY (2003) TU1416 RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (GFH) AVENUE D HAS BEEN RENAMED PAUL HAMILTON AVENUE.” And the words “RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION” was not put into the text. It leaves the impression that I was only submitting the information on the name change and was not making any report on the condition of the mark. Then there is TU0448. I’m not sure what happened there. All that came out was “STATION RECOVERY (2003) TU0448 RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (GFH).” Notice there is no recovery condition. As a result the reports did not come out as nice as I would have liked. So my future reports will contain everything including the condition. Has anyone else had this problem?

I have thought of that. As I mentioned above I would like to find the keeper of the State data base so I can look at the data sheets for these marks. I was looking at the bridges along the new section of Fort Weaver Road to see if any had dates on them. I think they were all obliterated by the installation of metal guard rails attached to them. I don’t think the local surveyors use the NGS data base but use the State data sheets instead. It probably meets their needs better as it may show more local marks and may have more up to date information. I know I’ve seen evidence of use on marks that are not in the NGS database. But thats only my impression. I found there is a survey’s supply store near my house. I went up there and talked to the guy in back that was working on the instruments for over an hour about Geocaching and benchmark hunting, the Iraq war, Gun Fire control for Navy ships, local Coast Artillery forts and more. End result he did not know that much about benchmarks or how to get information about them. Maybe I need to snag customers coming in the door. I have not had a lot of time for benchmark hunting but I just declared Friday as benchmark day (we’ll see how long that last). So maybe I can make some progress in these things we’re talking about here. Thanks for all the feedback.

After rereading my original post I see I never actually said I believe the historical monument was moved. But that is in fact what I believe. The monument was originally on the northeast side of the now abandoned fragment of Fort Weaver Road located 53 feet from power pole 140 and faced the road (southwest). The monument is now located on the southwest side of the new road and faces northeast and is more that 600 feet from the power pole. So yes I believe the monument was moved to be close to and visible from the new road. I believe this mark is dangerous because it can be found by just using a part of the to reach information. I found it and another geocacher came close to finding it all because we knew about the historical marker. A surveyor could do the same thing and not realize the elevation data is no longer valid. I did notice that State DOT did not find the mark. But then they did not find TU0631 after I posted new information that helped a couple of Geocachers find it. I would like to find who maintains the data base for the State Survey markers. I would like to report my finds to them and maybe look for marks not on the NGS database. I have found at least two SS markers not on the NGS data base. Thanks for all the comments. Right now I am inclined to report this as found poor with my reasons for thinking it has been moved. All these comments will help me refine my report. Thanks.

I noticed that but considered it a moot point since I found the disk mounted as described in the text. Should I upload better pictures?

I found the disk for TU0636 in apparently good condition except for one thing that might be easily overlooked. I was suspicious of this mark when I went to look for it because I know a little history of the area. There has been a major road realignment project done since 1969. The problem is to prove the mark was disturbed. DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1969 1.65 MI NE FROM EWA. 0.8 MILE NORTHEAST ALONG RENTON ROAD FROM THE POST OFFICE AT EWA, THENCE 0.85 MILE NORTH ALONG FORT WEAVER ROAD, IN THE NORTH CORNER OF THE LOWER CONCRETE BASE FOR A LAVA ROCK MONUMENT WITH IRON PLAQUE COMMEMORATING SITE OF FIRST ARTESIAN WELL, 23.0 FEET NORTHEAST OF THE CENTER LINE OF THE ROAD, 3.9 FEET SOUTH OF THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF A 12-FOOT-LONG LAVA ROCK RETAINING WALL WHICH IS IN BACK OF THE MONUMENT, 4.5 FEET NORTHEAST OF THE SOUTHWEST EDGE OF THE BASE, 53.7 FEET NORTHWEST OF TELEPHONE POLE 140, AND ABOUT LEVEL WITH THE ROAD. According to the description the disk was placed in the Northeast corner of the base of the historical marker. I found the mark in the southwest corner at hand held coordinates N 21° 21.614 W 158° 01.777. That is an error of 1194ft from the listed coordinates but that is scaled so the error there could have been caused when it was scaled off. If you look at the TerraServer map and zoom in you will get the 1983 topo map. In that you can see that Fort Weaver Road is a two lane road that wanders through the town of Honouliuli on its way to Ewa Beach. TU0636 is marked as BM 25 on the map. If you look at the same area on the Topozone map you get a newer version and you can see Fort Weaver Road is now an extension of Kunia Road and has become a 4 lane divided highway that makes a much straighter line to Ewa Beach and bypasses the town of Honouliuli. A portion of the original road is still in use and named Old Fort Weaver Road. The distances from the center lines of the roads are no longer valid. There is no lava rock retaining wall within 100 ft. of the monument. The only remaining thing to measure to is power pole 140. I found the power pole on an abandoned fragment of the original road. This area is very overgrown. Hand held coordinates for power pole 140 is N 21 21 30.8, W 158 01 49.50. According to GeoCalc that is 667.5 ft from the hand held coordinates of where I found the disk. That’s a big difference from the 53.7 feet as listed in the description. What do you think? Is this one destroyed as far as a surveyor would be concerned? Is this sufficient proof the mark has been moved?

It’s my guess that in calibrating the antennas one PID is the station’s antenna that receives the satellite signal. The other PID is the location of the antenna under test. The two antennas can not be at the same location so there is a need for two PIDs. If that’s not the answer then how about this one: The electrical location of the antenna is dependent on the phase of the signal. If you make a big change in frequency the phase location changes. So one PID is for one frequency the other PID is for a different frequency. I’m betting on the first one.

I call it urban camouflage. Basically you watch what the people that work along the highway wear and do and mimic them. Use safety vest; wear long pants with boots or shoes like the construction workers wear. It also helps to have a utility truck with flashing yellow lights on top. Like NorthWes says if you look like you are supposed to be there; there is less of a chance someone will question you.

I went to Amazon.com and found Schaum's Outline of Introductory Surveying by Roy Wirshing, James R. Wirshing. It has helped me understand surveying a lot better. It’s old school in that is has little if anything about electronic distance measuring and nothing about GPS. Copyright 1985.

In my neck of the woods there are a couple of people that went through the GC.com database and if the last log from the NGS data base indicated the benchmark was destroyed they added their own destroyed log on GC.com without visiting the site. They never said they went to the benchmark, they only pointed out the NGS log said it was destroyed. I can only assume they were going for the numbers. Or maybe they just wanted the exposure.

Now that is a very handy bit of information! Thanks mloser.

I’ve used a hacksaw enough to know what saw marks look like and I say it has definitely been sawn off exactly as you say. I don’t live in a northern area but I have heard that freeze and thaw cycles will force something like this out. It may have been cut off as a trip hazard but it does not look like it’s in a area that has a lot of foot traffic. My guess is someone found an opportunity to get a reference disk.

I’m always amazed at the highly complex mechanical devices that were available in the 18th and 19th centuries. We know there were striking clocks (clocks that sound a bell on the hour or more often). So it is not much of a stretch of the imagination that a precision clock with a precision “striking” mechanism be hooked up to a telegraph key. Because of the resistance of the wire there was always a loss of “signal” over any distance, so every so many miles there was a relay to boost the signal. Since surveyors were accustom to closing their work, again it is not a big stretch of the imagination that they rigged a device to send the signal back to its origin where they checked the time difference between the sent and received signals and telegraphed that information to the field station which in turn used that to make their adjustments. This is all conjecture on my part, so there could have been a much more accurate method used. And this is not to refute anything Holograph said. Still a fascinating subject.

What I had in mind was a steel mill. That would be an industry that needed mechanics to maintain the mill machinery. A large mill would also build a company town with the company store (to get the wages back into company hands) and the whole nine yards. I imagine a coal mine would be another possibility. But I don’t know if either one was anywhere near that location. I see Ernmark came through with the details. Thanks Ernmark. The history of the name is even older than I thought. But even better too.

In this area sugar plantations were the major industry. To fulfill the need for labor the plantations imported people from all over. Korea, Japan, China, Puerto Rico, and even Portugal to name some. As each group were brought in the plantation built a new village for them. Consequently the housing was segregated by race. The villages were named after managers of the mill. With that in mind it's not a big stretch to envision a company town segregating its work force's housing by trade. After all the mangers did not associate with the mechanics and the mechanics did not associate with the laborers etc. Hence a whole town of mechanics is quite possible. And the “town” would be the housing area and not the working area so it would be what we now call a bedroom community. It would be interesting to look a little deeper into the history of the area.

Put me down fot at least one. Thanks,

Hey congratulations. Now you have information to update the NGS data sheet. That info will save the next finder from the confusion you endured. Good piece of detective work.

Shorelander, Are you sure it is gone? It could be under a thin layer of concrete. A chisel and hammer could bring out the mark and make it useable. A metal detector would tell you it if it was there or not.

I was born in Boulder Co. and my grandmother lived on 9th St. just north of Baseline Rd. I have always been curious about the name of the road. I figured it had something to do with surveying the area. After reading about the Wheeler monuments and the Transcontinental Triangulation threads I got even more curious about it and its history. So I went to Google maps and looked at it. I clicked on the west end and found it is on the 40th parallel. Now I am certain it was used in the early survey of Colorado. The west end of Baseline Rd. appears to be at 40.000005,-105.289514. The east end seems to be at 40.000515,-104.609424. Does anybody have any information about this road and what its roll in the survey of Colorado was? Any suggestions on where I can look for the information. I looked at holograph’s Wiki but that list the Transcontinental Triangulation which seems to be based on the 39th parallel. Thanks for any help.

Yup, Fairmont M19, single-cylinder putt-putt belt-driven maintenence car. Since i do work for the railroad, they give me access on the weekends to go driving and get some benchmark hunting done. This is completely off-topic, but I recommend making sure you have written permission from the railroad and be a member of NARCOA for insurance reasons. (And resource help, when you get stuck in ghod-knows-where because you forgot to check your plug before firing it up!) Feel free to contat me if you need anything. Cheers, Me. As a member of the board of directors of this railroad permission is not a problem. Train schedules are a problem. MBHC (Mandatory Bench Hunting Content) I have a couple of benchmarks along the right of way I need to look for. It would be easier on flanged wheels.

Is that a Fairmont? What kind of engine, single cylinder? I could be benchmark hunting in one of those soon if the guy restoring it gets done.

Looks like a food can got caught in some cement. That’s what I thought, but they logged it as a find.

Heres a disk I bet you dont have. NZ1139 Had to share this one.