artist2c

One point no one mentioned is that it can boost your FTF count. Just think... FTF can be a thing of the past for anyone but the owners if all CO's followed this proceedure. My vote is with the majority.

Another option is to say "Check out the budda while you are there" Have fun with it... enjoy.

Thanks for your prompt reply. I do understand not all areas are subject to snow... areas like yous have different issues... water being only one of them. I did notice that the attributes have some for swimming and wading may be required. I think you have brought up an excellent issue... and you should suggest that area subject to flooding may be a symbol added to the list. In the areas that do have snow as a factor I stand by my response ... (I feel the attribute snowflake symbol should mean the cache can be found with a snow cover). Thank you so much for the clarification you have added ... I will look forward to the new symbol for possible flooding area being added.... good suggestion.

I am with OP To interprete the snow symbol as meant to mean GZ can be arrived at in te winter would certainly limit many if not most of the caches listed on the site that do not have it in the attribute section.. With this said... I feel the attribute snowflake symbol should mean the cache can be found with a snow cover. If there is a limitation because of closed gates or hours or months (seasons) of access it should be listed in the description of the hide.

Here are choices in order of preference 1. new box 2. lock and lock inside of old box 3. repair old box with a patch that will be only temp as the remainder of the box is prob getting thin and rusted thru in more places that aren't all that apparent yet. good luck

Perhaps Congress needs to render an opinion... it seems to have kicked to that level.

Thanks for joining geocaching. Good to see you onboard... bet you are looking forward to your first find.

thanks for interpreting my "incomplete" sentences could u please post examples of caches that have more than one track to follow ty

I may be naive or not read well on the forum... but Have puzzle caches been placed... 2 or more... with the same ending point. In other words... 2 different beginning points... etc... with one cache (box) at the end to log the final find. Each cache would have a question to be answered at one of the legs and e-mailed to be sure it was unique and not just signing the log for both finds w/o actually doing the other. Thanks in advance for any answers or advice.

Sounds like u have a popular cache to have the log book filling so fast you maintenance issue. Two suggestions would be to place a bigger log book or archive and remove the bothersome cache. Best of luck resolving this popularity dilemma.

This FTF discussion is about redefining what FTF really is... and because FTF is by definition the first to find it can not be changed... there can be no other definition. Now... if you want to reward others... there are a couple of other creative ways: 1. Put in description to e-mail you for a secondary cache you have placed in the vicinity with additional prizes. This will give you the option to e-mail back the coordinates to those you see as "deserving" in the order you decide. 2. Probably the best solution would be to place a secondary cache that isn't listed... same as above but not in cache description of the original. When the original is found you would have the option of e-mailing back to those you want the coordinates of the secondary hide. This has other good points....first of all you could put prizes in it for certain geocachers to find specifically.... and second, you could discontinue it at any time... and third... if you choose to you could move it each time it was discovered so there would be no repeat findings of previous cachers. Hope this helps... the definition of FTF can't be changed, but alternative rewards can be instituted.

I am with Ltjon... perhaps you should find at least 2 in the daylight before you branch out into nite ops. But... what ever you do.... enjoy yourself... and be safe.

I was able to read these with no problem.... thanks for your challenge

Now it is you that have me laughing. And I appreciate it. We have a lot of snow here with ice beneath and sub zero temps.... so thanks for the bit of warmth you have given me by continuing to copy my writings and then editing your messages after you have had second thoughts. Well done... except for the editing you would do well writing speeches for VP elect and currently Delaware Senator Joe Biden. Now that is funny.... and I do hope you take it good spirit. As you can imagine... I have no dog in this fight... but did see irony. You people in MI are a tough lot... apparently with lots of free time to ponder what exactly a "FTF" means... remember the discussion over the meaning of the word "is" ... this is reminiscent of that famous debate that still lingers on. Perhaps if you reread your post you will see where you have yourself awarded the FTF to the finder that truely was the FTF. Now that is true irony, and thanks for seeing the point that was trying to be made. I salute you astute insight about right and wrong. I appreciate your candor in this matter and allowing the truth to see the light of day in your response. I can see we are on the same page about this by your reply... thank you. As for the discussion of planting trees... well you have again, my friend, become distracted by your personal prejudices and have overlooked the meaning. Planting trees is good... in fact I reckon Johnny Appleseed may have done similar good in your part of the country on his wanderings. And I know I think of him each time I use my smoker and consume some of the trees that he may have been responsible for planting. My point which seems to have escaped some in its subtleness, is that apparently the true FTF was keeping track of his counts as do some when they plant and did by all rights have a FTF ... it is much like Al Gore saying he invented the Internet and denying the real founders the right. I see not further need to keep this thread going ... at least by me....the last response was insightful about whom you felt was the true FTF and should have the award. All my best to you...and keep the letters and cards coming. My supporters are a fantastic bunch.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious observation and irony that was made... perhaps it wasn't so apparent to some. I find it humorous that one can keep exact numbers of trees planted but deny the FTF from the geocacher that was clearly the first one to make the discovery. Perhaps some should hold back judgment until they understand the circumstances or the irony...makes it easier to save face in the end! In my area snow is a factor and must be taken into account in all hides that are not in plowed areas. I am not certain how the FTF should have handled this differently than he did... I know if there is a lot of snow... and you clearly indicated there was "lots" ... fox, coyote and deer will follow a trail that has been broken thru the deeper snow... and yes... hunters will do the same thing as it saves energy. So with this in mind I should ask... was it wrong for the walleyeguy to follow an easier track... if the hider had lost his hat or GPS at the site would the hider have felt differently in his reporting the find? Maybe some should hold back judgment until they understand the circumstances health and energy considerations in making this trek..makes it easier to save face in the end! I do have a solution.... disable the cache... archive it... tear it down and re-hide it under circumstances that will make it appeal to the sensitivities of the hiding person. I think this solution should satisfy all.

This is an interesting thread.... in that I thought we were trying to be observant and find caches. Caches should not be hidden if not intended to be found. After looking at the cache in question I can see that the owner has indeed gotten a knot in his knickers.. this is a person that randomly plants trees helter skelter for no apparent or stated purpose.... yet has kept track of the number he has randomly scattered. In my opinion you not only deserve a FTF... which you are... but should get extra kudos for the extraordinary find and your power of observation. Keep the FTF... and enjoy the unraveling of this thread as this topic spirals into another knicker knot.

Change... Change... Change Apparently the theme is in all endevours. Best of luck to you Bob... and welcome to the sport and the forum. BTW... because we ....as a nation... voted to spread the wealth... I am sure some with several thousand finds won't mind giving a couple to the less fortunate. LOL Thanks for the good humor... and enjoy your adventures.

Living in the NE in the winter time can be a challenge in many ways. I would like to have caches that may be covered w snow and unfindable because of snow cover have a label that shows just that. It is discouraging to travel to a site only to fine the snowplow has buried it... or that the snow cover is hiding the area.... or... (and here is an interesting thing we have here)... the cache is either frozen in the ground or the protective cover ... be it a rock , log or other... is frozen to the ground. Perhaps labeling a cache site as being seasonal because of snow cover would help in many cases. On the other hand... caches that can be recovered all year because they are not on the ground would be very helpful to this end. thanks

One issue here is that as the rare earth magnets are allowed to snap together with a great force they may fracture and splinter or crumble. With lesser powered magnets the mere act of one hitting another in the force they exert as they 'snap' together can sometimes cause them to be in pieces. It is worth noting in your application that not all that may put them back together may be fully aware of this fact.