Trailhead Tessie

I'm both a letterboxer and geocacher (mostly a letterboxer) and I don't think either group has a requirement to check for the other group's hides. If you are a letterboxer that is concerned about being too close to a geocache, then by all means check geocaching.com for an idea of where the geocaches are, and most people now do have a gps of some sort (phone, car) that can help find any cache that might be in the area. Sometimes you don't even need a gps receiver. I do think that the vast majority of both geocachers and letterboxers are very respectful and cause no problems. It's generally the newbies that cause problems. And of course every hobbie has its share of jerks that in no way reflect the majority. I do fault geocaching.com for not doing a better job of educating new geocachers about not taking letterbox stamps out of something that looks like a geocache. Because geocaching is much more popular than letterboxing, I think new letterboxers almost always know about geocaching when they start letterboxing, but the reverse is not true. There is no easy way to attach a hand-carved stamp to the letterbox, directly or via a string or it would have already been done. Stamp backings tend to make the stamp not give a good impression out in the field, and they make the stamp bigger, which means you need a larger container, which is more expensive and difficult to hide. It's interesting that someone might think a stamp is garbage if it's wrapped in paper towel. I wrap my in felt, but many are in fact wrapped in paper towels. I also write "not a trade item" on my stamp. It would be a nice gesture if both geocachers and letterboxers who notice there is a letterbox near a geocache that many people are finding (based on the logs) try and contact the letterbox owner. That is not always easy, but if you happen to find the letterbox, there might be contact info inside or the name of the letterbox. Or you can just go to atlasquest.com and post a note on a discussion board that says, "FYI, There is a letterbox near Cache #xxx that is getting found by geocachers. I don't know which one, but someone might want to contact the owner so they are aware." Letterboxers will handle it from there. Many letterboxers would move their box if they knew it was being found by geocachers. And finally I'll note that sometimes hiding places migrate. If a letterbox and geocache are on top of each other, one or both may actually be in the wrong spot.

"Or the GPS containing the card goes missing somehow in the great outdoors..." That's what happened on my previous unit... It's in Rhode Island somewhere at Arcadia Forest, and I had no map backup (the map came preloaded, and was for some reason much cheaper the first time around). So I bought another gps receiver and thought I had to buy a map on a card. So this is my second copy of the exactly same Garmin map, and I apparently cannot use it. How many time am I supposed to keep buying the same freakin' map? The gps model I got is one letter off from the one that takes the card (etrex Venture HC Vs the etrex Venture HCx). Grr. And the map that unit comes with is an embarrassment. My cheap Garmin Nuvi at least shows all the roads.

Wow, so I guess I'm never ever buying another Garmin map again. That's just wrong.

So...I messed up and purchased a Garmin topo map of the Northeast thinking the gps receiver I just ordered had a card slot. It doesn't. It seems like I should be able to load the map onto my computer, then send it to my gps via the USB. But I've spent hours and cannot find even a basic instruction anywhere. I did find discussions about transferring custom maps and tried using Map Set Tool Kit to convert the img file from the card to a tbd or whatever it was so that Garmin Map Source will recognize it and load it onto my gps receiver, but it insisted on only converting a file with an 8-digit number, and I cannot seem to change the file name (naturally). So I have the Garmin map, and the Garmin gps receiver, but can't get the map onto the receiver. Man, this is stupid. The last receiver I purchased the map preloaded, but I wasn't able to find this package this time. (I have an etrex Venture HC). And now I see there are free maps online. Should I have just done that in the first place? Is that what I should do now?

Absolutely, because there is a good chance that eventually someone will think the handcarved stamp in the letterbox is a geocache trade item and remove it. One thing geocachers often don't appreciate is that a letterbox without the stamp is no longer a letterbox. If a letterboxer finds it, and the stamp is missing, they cannot count it as a find (this just happened to me last weekend). So letterboxers become VERY upset if their stamp is removed, because it is essentially the same as removing the entire letterbox. Also, these hand-carved stamps typically take a couple of hours to make (or as much as 20 hours) and are not easily replaced. And of course there is the confusion in the logbooks. And some letterboxers make really nice hand-made logbooks with very few pages (not that many people letterbox) with the idea that each page will end up with an image of someone's stamp, and the logbook will become an artistic collection of stamps that will be saved and treasured. But the pages may be filled with writing and not stamp images if found by geocachers, which is not the intent.

"I have often thought that some of the "cache maggots" out there are quite possibly po'd letterboxers." Actually, there are letterboxing "bandits" as well. In Connecticut there is someone who goes around stealing only the stamp in the letterboxing, then carefully rehides the box. Since the stamp is 99% of the letterbox, that kills the letterbox. Last fall, the bandit vandalized a 30-box series (not the same as a mult-cache - each box is a 'find' and has a stamp). It would have taken him/her all day to locate each letterbox only to steal the stamp. Because of this, more 'clues' in the region are going underground and are called 'Word of Mouth' series, or they are listed as restricted boxes that you can only see if you have planted or found a specified number of boxes. There are also cases where the logbook and stamp are removed and replaced with trinkets. I then have to try to convince letterboxers that geocachers were not responsible for the vandalism because cachers would never take the logbook. The term "cache maggot" is unfortunate - it reminds me of the letterbox in a cemetery on which a gerbil's tupperware coffin was placed. People opened it up only to find a decomposing gerbil instead of the logbook and stamp.

An increasing number of state, county and local park systems are banning geocaches and letterboxes because of the environmental damage that certain types of geocaches and geocachers are causing, just like the NPS. This is the tradition of a cache without a good hint, requiring people to tromp all over the place, tearing apart historic stone walls, killing vegetation, etc. This type of cache should be banned. Caching etiquette and ethics must change, or the activity will gradually be banned from one park to another, until there is nowhere else to cache. Hints should not be encrypted, which implies you are cheating. Cachers should not be wandering in circles aimlessly hoping to stumble upon a cache. This is particularly unfair to the majority of cachers who practise good ethics and design their caches in a more environmentally and cacher friendly way. Caches can be challenging without the mindless "searching for the car keys" style hunt. Put a puzzle in the clue, make it a multistage, add a bearing and distance if you want to make it more difficult. It is especially unfair to letterboxers, who rarely cause the environmental problems caused by geocaches, yet are erroniously classified as "a variant of geocaching" by ignorant Park employees (grrrr). Letterboxing has been around since 1854, and clues are supposed to take you directly to the box without disrupting natural areas, so long as you can decipher the meaning of the clues (if you can't, you might not even be in the right town). Geocaching.com has a responsiblity to take the lead and espouse an environmental ethic. Otherwise, everything will eventually be banned, the good with the bad. I am a conservation agent for a town with 1900 acres of open space. We have about 50 good caches and letterboxes. But there was one cache that was so poorly done that people were ripping apart historic stone walls and trampling vegetation. Note that some cachers were also complaining in their comments for that cache. If I were someone who didn't cache or box, I might be tempted to ban all of it just due to the bad experience with that one cache, which is exactly what is happening all over the country. The hintless-style cache might be OK in the vast forests of the northwest USA, for example, but a lot of these caches now are in small parks with a lot of people. They cause harm to the parks, and should not be allowed - or we will all lose out.

That's why the hand-carved stamps evolved in letterboxing in 1907. After 50 years of letterboxing, people decided to create a new system to ensure people really HAD found a box. There is absolutely no way to fake it. The only way to get the stamp in your logbook is to find the box. When the goal is to accumulate stamps in your logbook, the incentive to cheat is gone. I wish caches had hand-carved stamps - and I don't mean hybrid letterboxes per se, but just regular caches that happen to have a cache stamp unique to that cache. It's a very good system.

I find the case you are making to be quite silly indeed. Is it really a problem that a couple of stones have been shifted in a stone wall out in the middle of the woods that no human being would ever notice? This is hardly a cause for concern and hardly worthy of even a passing thought. I am horrified by all the statements about New England stone walls being of no worth. This attitude reflects VERY poorly on geocachers. Stone walls are the symbol of New England and they are disappearing at at alarming rate. They are being razed for development, sold to landscaping companies and increasingly the rocks are being stolen from the side of the road. Now they are fall apart in places because of geocaches and letterboxes. Residents of these communities struggle to preserve these historic structures. There are books, websites and city ordinances devoted to preserving the walls. I work for a Conservation Commission that takes great pains to try and preserve them whenever possible. So what if some walls are in the middle of the woods where "no one can see them"? How is that an excuse to destroy them? I like walking in the middle of the woods and I enjoy seeing these walls and imagining some farmer stacking the rocks in the middle of the winter to get away from his wife. Just because certain individuals have no appreciation for historical walls does not mean that feeling is shared by others - don't destroy something just because YOU don't care about it. Others do. I am not opposed to caches or letterboxes hidden in stone walls IF they are done in such a way that seekers know exactly where to look and are not tempted to start moving rocks around. At the top of the cache page should be a message "DO NOT MOVE ROCKS IN THE WALL". Or, the cache can be behind a very distinctive rock. However it is done, it must be crystal clear that people should not be moving the rock around or threatening the integrity of the wall. If it looks like people are messing up the wall, move the cache immediately. This problem goes beyond actual hides in the walls. I just about had to remove someone's cache on city property recently because a seeking cacher dismantled a wall (and then kindly rebuilt it). However, the cache was no where near the wall. The problem was a poor signal in the area combined with no hint (the cache was actually in a tree). The wall was over 100 feet away from the hide, yet it was getting dismantled. Frankly, this disrespectful attitude is why geocaching was banned from National Parks and may be banned in the future from other parks as well. Cachers have a responsibility to respect all property and structures and I am very disheartened at all the comments from cachers who feel they have the right to do otherwise.

Usually, but not always. There are a lot of complaints on the letterboxing forum at www.atlasquest.com about geocachers finding their letterboxes and putting trickets for trade in them, as well as taking the stamps. You could have found a letterbox that other geocachers had also found and put trinkets in. The logbook should say what the cache or letterbox is.

Brilliant!

I enjoy both letterboxing and geocaching, and I've listed a couple of my letterboxes as hybrids on geocaching.com. The main difference between the two is NOT the use of a gps receiver, because a few letterbox clues are actually listed as coordinates. The main difference is that a letterbox absolutely MUST have a rubber stamp, normally hand-carved. It might not have a log, but it will always have a stamp. Also, people do not trade trinkets (never leave them in a letterbox!). The English sport was started in 1854 by an outdoor guide and the rubber stamps evolved as a means to prove you had managed to navigate difficult terrain and find the secret mailbox (the English call their mailboxes "letterboxes"). The stamps are supposed to be hand-carved so they are unique to that box, although some people hide boxes with crappy store-bought stamps. So if you do a hybrid, it's better to have a hand-carved stamp. You might find a letterboxer that is willing to carve a stamp for you. The "boxer" also has his/her own personal rubber stamp, called a signature stamp, and they stamp the letterbox logbook with that. I use my signature stamp as my photo for this forum. Serious boxers eventually get sucked into carving their own rubber stamps. I really wish caches all had stamps. They evolved in letterboxing for a good reason. The stamps are way more interesting that some Burger King toys, and it's a lot more fun to flip through your logbook when its full of unique, hand-carved stamp images. I don't think we need to make the caches letterboxes per se, but just throw in a cache stamp and keep everything else the same. Letterboxes often come in "series", which is sort of like multicaches except that each box in the series counts as a find. The stamps in a series are normally related. For example, there are series of the Simpson, and each stamp is a carving from that TV show. You could do a multicache with a different but related stamp in each one. If you want to get into carving rubber stamps, there are some tutorials at www.atlasquest.com. Good luck!

Maybe a virtual multicache? (Is there such a thing?) The National Park Service at Acadia in Maine has an earth multicache where you end up going to 4 or 5 different locations (by car and by foot). The last location tells you to draw a line through all the locations and report the bearing of that line to the ranger at the visitor center, upon which you get to sign the logbook and use their hand-carved stamp.

Letterboxing is definitely what you want. The sport goes back to 1854 and most clues do not require a gps receiver. (I say MOST, because a few actually do. There is nothing in the definition of letterboxing that says you can't used gps coordinates for your clues. I suspect a growing number of letterboxes will use coordinates. The primary difference between letterboxing and geocaching is not the gps receiver. It's actually that letterboxes have rubber stamps, usually hand-carved. There is a whole big art thing there, with people learning to carve their own stamps if they really get serious about the hobby. There is no trading of items, just trading of stamp images. That's why letterboxers will sometimes drop a stamp in a cache. ) Some letterboxers also do geocaching (self included) and I've even heard of some letterboxers who look for geocaches without gps receivers, just to see if they can. I recently found a stage 2 cache when stage one was missing by carefully reading the comments previous finders had left. It's an added challenge to find the caches without the electronics. The downside to letterboxing in many areas is that there are not as many letterboxes hidden as geocaches. It depends on where you live. Letterboxes are listed on two websites, www.letterboxing.org and also www.atlasquest.com. Some are listed on one but not the other.

That looks good, thanks. I'll add it to my Christmas list. Perhaps the hubby will view it in terms of me being safer out in the wild yonder if I have something showing me where I am, and not just a fun toy.

< I really like the Garmin’s larger screen and menu screens but just can’t swallow the added cost of the street maps which are included with the DeLorme.> The DeLorme works well for my job (Conservation Agent) because I needed a relatively low cost unit to help me determine about where property lines were located and whether certain activities were on City property, but it does have some drawbacks for recreational use. Because it's not one of the more popular brands (esp Garmin), you can't download files directly from a website (like geocaching.com and others) to the gps unit. I have to save geocaching files to my hard drive, then open them with the DeLorme Software, and from there upload to the GPS unit. Other cons: The DeLorme software is terrible and the DeLorme maps are very pretty, but inaccurate. This was surprising to me. For example, when I put the unit on my dashboard and drive across town, the track is exactly on the roadways depicted by the USGS quad maps, but if I switch to the DeLorme map it shows me going through the middle of a forest. The battery life to me does not seem very good. Finally, the screens take a long time to load. For my recreational use, I can't afford to spend several hundred dollars, so if I need to do that I'll probably give up the geocaching and stay with the more traditional letterboxing

I've been using my work GPS unit for geocaching, which is a DeLorme, and for obvious reasons I think it's time to purchase my own unit. Having never used any unit other than the DeLorme, I am wondering... The DeLorme came with DeLorme Topo USA and USGS maps (as well as satellite aerials) that I uploaded into the GPS receiver. (With the aerials I could see stone walls, trees, cars, etc. Not useful really for geocaching, but great for my job). Normally I just used the USGS topo map to see where I was. When one purchases one of the lower priced models, say a Garmin, what do you see on your screen? Is there some sort of map, or just a blank screen with your geocache waypoint and a symbol showing where you are? I see a Garmin etrex model for $89 at Walmart (working on my Xmas list here) - would that have some sort of map loaded onto it? Would a model that cheap be OK for geocaching or will I just be sorry I purchased it?