IceCreamMan

Not really sure I've been saying that. If fact, since folks seem to get so hyped up when post to find ratio is mentioned, I can only assume they care deeply whether their opinion is valued. I was more questioning whether their opinions are valuable. At least in comparison to people who have actually experience as the basis of their posts. It's been common in this thread, and other treads I've pained myself to read, for folks with high post counts to make pronouncements and claims unsupported by even anecdotal experience. At least not that they manage to state in their posts. For example, I'm sure there are cachers out their who regularly cache in Northeast Florida and never log their finds, but I doubt any of them are the people slamming Jax in this thread. On the other hand, most of the people I know who've done any amount of caching in NE Florida are positive about it. (Some of them even have high post counts). It's been pretty much the same trend on the posts about Killer PB Jars. I'd say insult is a bit strong, but I guess it's in the eye of the insultee. If observing that people with high post to find ratios post relentlessly on topics they know little or nothing about is an insult, I'd say... hmmm ... well ... perhaps it is an insult. At least if it isn't true. I provide this thread as evidence and leave the reader to form his own opinion. If my observations have been enough to get someone the boot, this place would be a ghost town. I've been told I want allergic people to be home bound and die, that my caches are disposable geo-litter, that my containers are substandard and disreputable, that the area I live in has crappy caches and that my intelligence is in question. All by people who don't know me and have never met me (except for Joe), have never found one of my caches and have probably never even been to Northeast Florida. Water off a ducks back as far as I'm concerned but if we're gonna get righteous here, how 'bout we send a little of the indignation my way. Because, hey, I really care about that. BTW, fine display of rhetoric.

i'm not sure this is obvious or even true. You're right. If it were true, I wouldn't be wasting time on this silly thread.

Nope. I have more time here than you. It is also worth noting that i have never posted because of that stupid number to the left. Besides the occasional humorous post i would say most of my posts have substance to them. I cant understand why that bothers people so much. Its Post envy. Its the only way he can justify his opinion is better than yours because your post to find ratio is wrong in his eyes. If it were the other way around, I'm sure he would come up with a different excuse to butter up his opinion to better than yours. Not that my opinion counts based on my high post count... which makes mine bigger than yours! That's it. Post envy. Because posting is obviously more fun than caching. Not to mention that what we are talking about here is so important that actually I care whether people value my opinion about it.

I've heard that same thing said about IceCreamMan hey quit dissing on ICM! He's a great guy but based on the posted comments I think JoeMerchant and Serial Finder are the the one's who sound like jerks. No offense intended Joe, I'm just saying Still undecided if I mean to offend Serial Finder or not but he's bright enough to read between the lines when he reads this. On topic - I've found 100's of ICMs "egg jars" and they hold up well in the woods and in the city. He hides them in wonderful locations and fills them with great swag. Thanks for the support Clan. Joe, if you don't watch your step, my next post will be about "The Dames Point Incident".

I'm guessing that was the theory. That may not be what they are for, but when the bananas get soft you make banana bread.

His implication is, I believe, that some people are willing to post just for the sake of being heard, whether they are wrong or right. Bingo! Give that man a cigar! Perhaps. Since I think the hole allergy thing is a bit silly, and I already know the containers I use work well, and I don't really give a rats butt what people with ten million posts and six hides "think" about them, my posts would seem to a casual observer as pointless. But then my real audience is the cachers who are getting a great chuckle out of this thread, the caricatures posting here and that it keeps going and going and going and going... lol

Hmm... My pill bottle cache has been out for two and a half years, and never a complaint about it being wet. Hmm... I don't think I said bottles were substandard containers, not reputable, and that they couldn't make an effective container (in fact my AZ/NM asside suggests the opposite). I merely stated they were not water tight. Does "common sense" tell you they are? If so your common sense might benefit from an actual experience with H2O. Holy smokes Bullwinkle, who'da thunk it? You mean it might depend on where and how you hide a container as to whether it works or not? (perhaps that's why I nearly always find magnetics around some kind of ferrous metal) Just how might one come by such knowledge? Obviously we're not all as fortunate as some and born with common sense caching knowledge. Perhaps we could pick up such knowledge via experience? hmmm. Or we could just talk about it on the forums until it all becomes clear. That's the way the ancient Greeks did it. And they kicked the Persian's butts. Or at least I saw it in a movie once.

Not the only way, but a good way. Finding caches certainly can bring problems with a particular container to light, but most of the problems people have put forth with these containers have been speculative (no one mentioning an actual problem, just bloviating on what the problems would be) and more long term in nature - criters will eat them or they'll crack, etc. Things that would usually be more apparent to some one dealing with a cache over the long term (i.e. the hider). You don't have to find too many pill bottles to know they aren't water tight (unless your in AZ or NM), but how does finding a cache tell you whether the sun will make it brittle in a year? Unless perhaps you've found one that had been out a while and was brittle. But here again. People who've actually found containers in that circumstance have said it wasn't a problem. Even you qualify your criticism based on your EXPERIENCE. If only other posters on this thread did the same. But then limiting their posts to what they know about might cut into their post count. For the most part, people with actual experience with the containers have been positive. People with little hiding or finding experience but lots of posting experience have been negative. But why should this thread be any different than the rest of threads on this forum.

Me too. My friends have orders to shoot me and hide my body if my post count ever exceed my hide count. Smilie? Is that like flame retardant?

Ouch!

That gives me an idea. Is anyone out there alergic to trash bags? I'm talkin name brand like hefty. That would make it much more convenient to archive them.

So, what you are saying is that because caches are archived, he does not maintain them? I don't get it. If they were not maintained, then the page would still be active. Archiving a cache is not poor maintenance. If the spot is taken over by construction (which happens a lot here in Florida) then the cache needs to be archived. If you move from one area to another and you can not maintain it, then archive it. If another cacher finds a really cool spot, but your cache is in the way and out of the kindness of your heart you archive yours to make room for a new one. This kind of cacher does maintain their caches. I fail to see your point here. Or because someone with a peanut allergy has keeled over there and the smell is getting really bad.

Heck, whadu I know. I've only got experience hiding caches. You might want to ask one of the experts who know all about talking about hiding caching.

Because archiving a cache means it's not being maintained? Hmm. Interesting concept. Are caches to be immortal? Hmmm. Not sure I know what's wrong with that. Are Members only caches a sign of some nasty character trait? A mans gotta know his limitations. That's why I don't try to maintain 572 caches.

Um. I believe I've said that. I means, like, you know "experienced geocachers". Doesn't seem like an ambiguous term. Perhaps we should have stat on the number of posts actually read as well as written. "Challenge" is a bit strong. I questioned how informed an opinion of a given container is when the opinionator has only hidden 20 caches. Seems pretty reasonable. Also seems far fetched to say they are "clearly very knowledgeable". They certainly may know enough to hold up a piece of an intellegent conversation and they would no doubt have some relevant input. But to leap from that to pronouncing which containers are "substandard" and which are "reputable" seems somewhat, shall we say, foolish. That's a bit farther than I would take it, but it's gotta be tough to keep up those kind of numbers and limit yourself to talking about thing you know about. It's clearly tough for many of the people posting on this thread anyway. Well it's a nice perk to get paid to play on the internet but I fail to see how it imparts any "experience". My job requires me to actually work, you know, at my job. Well, I try my best.

And rightly so. If you come in here and claim some kind of superiority based on a comparison of find/hide stats, coupled with a demand that nobody challenge that claim, you'd better be wearing some heavy Nomex pajamas ... and a good helmet. Flame on. I'll take the advice of people who actually hide caches over people who squawk about it on the forums. Not a question of superiority, just common sense. Feel free to challenge the claim that action is a much better indicator of expertise than is words.

And rightly so. If you come in here and claim some kind of superiority based on a comparison of find/hide stats, coupled with a demand that nobody challenge that claim, you'd better be wearing some heavy Nomex pajamas ... and a good helmet. The annoying ones are the ones who feel inferior so they try to discredit the numbers and forget to talk about the subject at hand. The only people I've ever seen try to pull rank using numbers are people who log caches but don't post much. I don't see it much in the forums. I do vice versa a lot. I'm not sure what IceCreamMan's point was though. He didn't really discredit or credit... My point was that OEnavigator shouldn't get the idea that the people on these forums are representative of geocachers in general. Some may be geocachers, and they may very well be good, experienced cachers and fun to be around besides. But the behaviors exhibited here are much more representative of forum dwellers in general than they are of geocachers. The people who post here regularly are a small microcosm of the geo-community. There are all kinds of geocachers but they are a unique bunch and you'll get a much better sampling of them on the cache trail, at events and on local forums. And you'll find them to be a great bunch of folks.

Yes, they are. It's been my standard practice to stay off the forums. I ended up on this thread because a friend of mine knew it would get be going, wanted to stir the pot, and sent me the link (thanks a bunch fed). Take a look at the stats of many of the posters. Thousands of posts, hundreds of finds and a dozen or two hides (if any). The mere recognition of this will likely get me flamed big time. I recommend looking for a local group with forums. They tend to be a little more sane and civil.

stop, don't, come back Please, isn't that enough to say? But then, it's not as if the profile of a peanut butter jar is unrecognizable to someone for whom it is a matter of life and death. Well, everyone has orifices too. The question is, how well informed is that opinion. Numerous people have posted that they have used such containers successfully. Most of the people who believe it is "substandard" or not "reputable" can count there hides on their four extremities. If you're going to ask someone about hiding and containers, it might be worthwhile to ask someone who has, well, you know, hidden a few. The ammo can is the best container. Lock n Locks are probably second only to the ammo can. In my opinion, and I have a little experience in the matter, plastic jars (in my case egg containers, though they are the exact same type jar that peanut butter is sold in), properly cammo painted make a container of excellent quality and versatility. Though admittedly not as good as an ammo can or lock n lock. And space aliens. Don't forget, space aliens have scanners that can detect food residue from orbit. But seriously, I once again have to defer to the opinions of the folks who've actually hidden these containers. There's nothing to suggest this is a rampant problem. I say, let the person taking the time and effort to hide a cache do the cost/benefit analysis for themselves. Because people with deadly peanut allergies and who can't recognize a peanut butter jar, are suddenly taking up caching, going out completely unprepared, and dropping like flies. What about people who think these concerns are silly? But it's fair to say that people who think these concerns are silly what people with allergies to be house bound and die. No, but we know how such things start. Today its just nannies wringing their hands about silly things, tomorrow the mayor of NY is telling restaurants what kind of fat they can use in their friers.

I use Fusion paint for plastic. It will scratch off with enough provocation, but it doesn't flake off. You can pick it up at any Ace or Walmart. They have a "River Rock" color that closely matches khaki, so it's easy to then move on to the darker colors of ultra flat cammo paint with that as your base. BTW, "Sissy" and "CoyoteRed"? Would that be Sissy & CR? That happens to be where I got my stencils. You might want to read the tag line on that post ICM... DOH!!!

I use Fusion paint for plastic. It will scratch off with enough provocation, but it doesn't flake off. You can pick it up at any Ace or Walmart. They have a "River Rock" color that closely matches khaki, so it's easy to then move on to the darker colors of ultra flat cammo paint with that as your base. BTW, "Sissy" and "CoyoteRed"? Would that be Sissy & CR? That happens to be where I got my stencils.

Uh oh Yep, you made the cut. Be suspect and be proud.

So.... it's unreasonable to look at the number of hides a person has to draw conclusions about how informed their opinion of various containers is. But it's perfectly reasonable to assume that an area you've never been to has poor quality caches because there are a lot of them. I guess in the upside down bizzaro world of high post to find ratios that makes sense. BTW, is this the same friend who explodes at the mere though of peanut butter? Having actually cached in Florida, particularly Northeastern Florida, I don't have to rely on it's "reputation". I actually know. But then limiting my posts to things I actually know about does hamper my post to find ratio. BTW, a friend of a cousin of a guy I work with told me that regularly posting on internet forums increases ones leaping ability (I can leap to that conclusion in TWO posts!)

It's bed time boys and girls. You posters feel free to continue on with out me. Of course, I know you will.

Which you know because you've found so many there.