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Gan Dalf

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Posts posted by Gan Dalf

  1. Requiring a date is an ALR, or so I was told by a reviewer when I tried to put a requirment for a date on a challenge cache I released.


    If a CO deletes your online log becasue you did not date the physical log and reasoning with them does not seem to work I would relog the original log myself. If they continue to delete your log, then write to Groundspeak (contact@Groundspeak.com) and explain what is happening. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, GS would most likely take your side and reinstate your log and lock it so that it could not be deleted again.

  2. Okay, at the risk of also of looking like a newbie, which of course I am, what does "No PAF's" mean by CO's in descriptions?


    As pointed out already, PAF=Phone A Friend, which is the practice of using your cell phone to call someone else you know has found the cache you are looking for which you can not find.


    If a CO puts "No PAF's" in the description of their cache they are implying that anyone who uses a PAF to find that particualr cache will have their logs deleted. Many CO's are annoyed by the practice of calling friends for help when you can't find a cache, the idea being that they put a lot of work into makeing the hide tricky and if they wanted people to be able to find it easily then they would have made it easier themselves.


    There are several problems with this. First is that there is no "rule" against asking for help with a cache from whomever the person looking for it wants to ask, be it the CO or someone else. Second, unless a cacher admits in their log that they used a PAF, there is no way for a CO to prove that they did and so saying No PAF's is somewhat pointless. Lastly, even if someone does admit in their log that they used a PAF to a cache with a No PAF's statement in the description, telling someone they can't use a PAF and then deleting their log if they do is an ALR (ALternate Logging Requirment) which are against the TOU (Terms of Use)and so the statement is pointless in that regard as well becasue there is nothing the CO can do it about if someone does.

  3. Yeah, your Reviewer could just be a night person. Caches get regularly listed after midnight in Washington state (by more than one Reviewer). I myself go to sleep after midnight most nights. It's funny to see the FTF logs and responses to FTF logs. It never ceases to amaze me that people will hop up at 2am and run out to find a cache. :D


    Yeah, I remember shortly aftre PNWAdmin retired it seemed like all the caches were being published very late or even after midnight. It seemed like every morning I would wake up and 5 or 6 caches would have published in our area while I was sleeping and the FTF would already be gone. I remeber being somewhat annoyed that I was being excluded from possible FTF attempts due to my lifestyle.


    With 4 reviewers for our stat now though it has gotten much better. caches seem to publish at all times of the day, with no discernable pattern to who publishes when.

  4. The title of this thread should have been "Harvesting TBs just to stock your own cache....".


    But that is not how I interpreted the original statement. The way I read it, right or wrong, it seemed to me that simply placing bugs in your own cache was frowned upon. I titled the thread based on that assumption to ask if that perception was corect? It has been pointed out to me that my perception was not correct and that I had misunderstood. Which is good, and the reaosn why these forums exist, no?

  5. Hi All


    Relative newbie to caching so bear with me. I have recently found and grabbed a travel bug (today actually), upon attempting to log the "Grab", it seems that it has not been logged as "dropped". I.e it states it is still in the hands of A N Other. My options are to a) discover it, or b ) grab it from the hands of A N Other. As i am keen to move the TB on to another cache tomorrow how do i go about doing this correctly?


    Thanks in advance




    Check to see if A N Other posted a log on the cache you found the bug in. If they did, then they just failed to log it in to that cache and it is OK for you to grab it from them. You should then "dip" the bug back into the cache you found it in by posting a note so that it gets credit for it's milage. since the bug is in your possesion, don't just discover it, it will not end up in your inventory then.


    If A N Other has not logged the cache you found it in then you could write to them and ask if they were there and intend to log the bug in. In that case, you might have to wait before you are able to drop the bug elsewhere. DO NOT drop the bug into another cache unless you have it in your inventory. If you do that, you will simply propegate the problem further if someone else picks the bug up before you are able to do it yourself.


    Personally, if the cacher is inactive, new or doesn't seem to know how to log bugs, then I wouldn't wait for very long before grabbing it myself and dropping it. Waiting a week is generous and personally, giving them a couple of days to respond to you is enough IMHO. Others are liekly to disagree with me in that regard however.

  6. I recently attempted to find a cache that was basically on the border of a private property line. It seemed to us 4 long time cachers to check this clearing behind this footbridge (no signs, no fences) for the cache. Was within 20 feet of 0 there. Well, met the private property owner, told him why there and went home, but did not know where cache was.


    Turns out the cache is just beyond the small creek, without crossing the bridge. However, I would never have known that. I asked the CO to include a note to not cross the foot bridge. You would think I asked for his daughter's hand in wedlock or something...this caused so much anger on his part.


    sounds like someone who enjoys hiding caches that put people into uncomfortable search situatons... :huh:

  7. It would appear that this cacher has done this several other times as well on other caches.. not logging them into his inventory but posting the # in his log.


    they also have double logged a couple of caches. they have not even been caching a month and obviously don't know what they are doing...

  8. I'll go along with you regarding the "harvesting" aspect. I didn't see a direct reference to it (from the quote). Yes, I know this stems from another thread, but somebody else may not have caught that thread. :blink:


    IMHO a person that harvests trackables simply to stock their own cache is a "user". This is simply a variation of a person that "uses" other people as a matter of existence. It happens in life, so it only makes sense that one would extend it to geocaching. I call them "leeches".


    This type of post is the reason I call this TB forum, The Whining and Unrealistic Expectation Forum.


    Equating trackable movement YOU don't agree with to loathsom human behavior is obtuse. <_<


    As a trackable owner, I want my TB to keep moving, or be in safe hands. As a trackable mover, I must be pure evil to you. I don't often stock my caches with TBs unless I'm doing maintenance but I do do it. (Yes I said, "do do.") TBs are a trading currency at events and I prefer to move them hand to hand for the most part because I hate being the last finder of a TB before it goes missing in a cache I left it in.


    Taxing a brain cell to worry about the intent behind the movement of a TB or TBs that probably don't even belong to you is kinda petty and I don't understand whyyy people do this or why they would post about it as if their view of TB movement were law.


    Snoogans, did you miss the distinction made earlier in the thread between dropping a few trackables into your own caches and harvesting? Or do you truly believe that 25 trackables in a single cache are safer than being spread out among multiple caches? I have had some TBs sit in caches with that many travelers waiting to be moved. It was quite a few months before it got picked up, and only then because I had posted a note to the trackable's page with a request that it please be moved.


    Actually I think it is you that is missing the point of the thread. The original question was about whether or not it is acceptable to place trackables that you have collected into your own cache. The question has been answered and the consensus seems to be that as long as you are sticking to the goals of the bugs, placing then in you r own cache is acceptabel behavior. Harvesting and hoarding is not acceptable and is a practice that I think most people would agree is reprehensible. I believe that Snoogans probably believes this as well and was simply taking exception to the fact that an earlier post seemed to imply that simply placing a trackable in your own cache made you a leech...

  9. Well after work tonight I went back and retrieved my container from the reception desk at the Public Works Department. I was forced to remember that the container was green. Had to think for a minute if it was black or not as I have recently found a few that were that color. After the nice lady's from behind the desk gave me back my container I returned to the site where it was hidden to discover that I was no longer able to hide my cache int he manner it was hidden before. It seems that the branches of the tree that I had put it in we gone...


    I moved it to a different nearby spot but I am still a bit disappointed as I preferred the other location and hide method. Hoepfully it will be safe there but I fear that within a year it will go missing again due to it's new location. It's such a great spot for a cache but hiding options are limited; unless I want to go against my own grain and hide an undesirable micro...

  10. So did the issue get resolved? I got lost in the serial quoting of everything said before that was off topic.

    The OP is steaming about 5 days wait? I'm going on two months! If he tried to list a cache in Germany, he would blow a gasket!


    Way back in post number 14, a reviewer reported to the OP that they had gone to the listing and determined that the CO/OP had not checked the box that puts an unpublished cache into the review Queue. The OP has been silent ever since...

  11. A quick scan of your finds list shows a few from one hider who hasn't logged a cache find since '08. Perhaps just ignoring their hides will make it easier for you? Someone won't maintain their caches if they have dropped out of the game.


    If the owner has dropped out of the game, their caches should be either adopted or archived.


    Getting the owner to adopt out a cache can often be problematic if they are no longer playing the game and their cooperation is a required neccesity in order to do so. I have yet to see a reviewer that will archive a cache simply because the owner is an absentee. On the contrary, in many cases, the community has taken up reponsibilty of maintaining an abandoned cache that is not adoptable, especially if it is a much loved or historic cache, which is as it should be.

  12. So if I'm hearing things correctly, it's OK to go out on a normal caching day, pick up a few bugs from the caches you find and then place them in a cache or caches you own as long as that is conducive to the trackbales goal.


    What is not OK is to go out on a run for the sole purpose of collecting trackables either from caches that you have found or ones you have not and then stick them in your own cache for the purpose of keeping it stocked with trackables...


    I own a TB rest stop and I do put trackables in it that I have collected, either locally or during my travels. I also will often times remove or exchange the ones that are already in the cache to move them somewhere else, usually in conjunction with their goal. There is another trackable cache about 40 miles away near where my inlaws live (owned by someone else) that I will go to when I am in there for the purpose of exchanging bugs there as well. Sometimes the bugs that I remove from there end up in my own cache and vice versa.


    It sounds to me that what I have been doing is OK, as long as I am not altering a particular bug from it's intended path. I was afraid that what I had been doing for the last 4 years was frowned upon and that I would have to change my approach to moving trackables, if not abandaning the practice all together.

  13. ....why is it considered rude to place travel bugs in your own caches?

    I hope this statement is a misrepresentation of what was discussed.


    Perhaps you had meant to word it differently than what you did.


    I do not believe it is wrong to place a TB in your own cache. If so, a lot of folks are gonna burn in h___!


    misrepresentation? Not intentionally. Misinterpretation? Perhaps, I am not infalable.


    The original statement was, "It is considered rude to harvest trackables just to stock your own cache."


    I originally took this to mean, don't take bugs and then place them in your own caches, it's rude... I can see how this might have not been the point. Still though, where is th eline? If you go out for a day of caching and collect 4 or 5 trackables and then those traakables all end up in your caches would this be considered harvesting and stocking? What if the trackables were all in older caches tha tdon't get found that often or have been there for an extensive amount of time, is this still harvesting and stocking?


    I will often avoid putting a trackable in a cache that I am the first finder for in over a month because I don't want the trackable to just sit there for a month. By putting a trackable in a chace I own, I am reassured that the bug will be safe and that since it's my cache, I can check on it if necessary.

  14. Hey everyone,


    Is there a way to get a query for all the caches for a certain area near me for example that have not been found for a while. I'd like to input something like all caches within 20 miles of home that haven't been found in at least 2 months or 3 months or whatever.


    Is there any way do to this or would I just have to run a query then sort it out in GSAK somehow?


    As usual, I think GSAK is the answer. Under the Pocket Query That (And) Statement there are categories for "Have not been Found (meaning never) and Found in the last 7 days (meaning it is most likely still there) but none for have not been found between X and Y dates.


    Your best bet is to run a PQ for your unfond caches, load it into GSAK and then sort by the "Last Found" Column.

  15. Disclaimer: Before reading this, it is important to understand that where I live and cache and because of a certain trackable fiend in our area, it is important to move all trackables quickly and often...


    Recenelty I read a statement from a moderator that it is considered rude to stock your own caches with travel bugs that you have found and I am curious to know why that is. I asked this question of a well respected and seasoned cacher in my area farely early on in my caching career and was assured that there is nothing wrong with it.


    Personally I love finding and moving trackable and when I can help them to their goal so much the better. I am also a prolific OCD cacher, I've found all of the caches within a 10 mile radius around where I work and live and have other pockets of cache clearing in other nearby communities. Consequently I am not able to drop bugs off in nearby caches that I have not found unless new ones get published. So in order to keep bugs moving, I often will place the bugs I've collected in my own caches. I have a Travel Bug Rest Stop (no restrictions) that I have set up nearby speciclly for this purpose.


    I have other reasons for placing bugs that I find on my own caches but I will let this play out and bring them up as others chime in so as to keep this initial post as short as I am capable of. So I ask again, why is it considered rude to place travel bugs in your own caches?

  16. You lot are hilarious. Let's review the situation. CO says "hey, look at my caches". I say: "er, they're wet". Cue wave of pompous "calling-out" of "rudeness". Meh ... when something's old it doesn't need to be in good shape? Get a grip.

    We threw you people out 230 years ago, yet you're still trying to tell us what to do. Surely there must be something closer to home for you to meddle in.


    Nice! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


    Once again, someone else posts exactly what I've been thinking. :lol:

  17. Is there a Nielsen rating for this thread? The OP seems to be keeping to the high road for the most part, although I have to ask myself what brought him to the fight. But Wareagle59 has managed to successfully deflect any doubt about Toolson's intentions with his extremely agressive and defensive posts. Keystone steps in and separates the fighters long enough for Toolson to catch his breath, but it remains to be seen who will bring whom to the mat. I'm betting on Wareagle59 to lose both the popular and the moderated votes. You were going to move all those travel bugs on... when? Oh, but you stuck them in your rarely found cache, your plans changed, and guess what... they are still stuck. Toolson isn't the bad guy for calling you on your thoughtless (if not vindictive) move. Set it right, Wareagle59.


    Naw. I hold little respect for a sock puppet mucking things up. I don't know which guidelines Eartha is using for calling it rude to stock one's cache with TBs. If Eartha doesn't think lots of TBs should be in a cache, then TB hotels should be banned. Keystone, as usual, set everything straight as to the 'foul-mouthed' log. But I don't see that Wareagle59 is doing anything so wrong that it should provoke an attack from a sock puppet.


    the sock puppet and this particular incident not withstanding, I too have been curious about the "stocking your own caches" statement from Eartha... so much today, that I have been thinking of starting a new thread on the subject.


    As to this particular circumstance, while I agree that wareagle is reprehensible for his false statements and accusations, I really haven't seen what the big deal is, unless he was virtually dropping the bugs in the cache and not really putting them in there. I have no qualms about taking bugs from hotels or prisons with logging restrictions. If they delete my log, then they'll be reported to GS and my log will be reinstated. If I think a CO that is hording bugs in a cache that I have already found then I see no reason to not go there and take them out to move them along.


    I've thought from the beginning that this was much addoo about nothing. Just go to the cache and get the bugs out if you don't like it...

  18. Ok, thanks for the advice everyone! I'm going to stop "fixing" messed up caches. I was just doing it because I felt this was a community activity, where we all kind of helped each other here and there, and I felt bad about leaving a messed up cache for the next person. However, I can see your point about enabling.


    It really is a fine line. You are right, and thank you for recognizing that this is a community based activity where we all need to help with all aspects of the game. As you cache longer you will learn that certain types of "helping" will get you labelled as a geocop and you will also find that some cache owners don't want you maintianing their caches for them. Others will be eternally grateful and often ask for advice or help. The trick is recognizing which is which and like most similar types of things, is a learning process that comes with participating int he activity longer.


    I guess my advice would be to use your judgement. If you see a pattern where a certain cache owners caches are continually falling into disrepair, then this would be a case of where you are being an enabler if you fix his caches, leave them be and post a Needs Maintanence Log. On the otherhand, if you learn that a different cacher really likes their caches to be quality and you find that one of their caches has fallen into disrepair through no fault of their own, then go ahead and fix it and explain what you did in your log. Remember though that if you remove a log book, don't just throw it away, no matter how wet it is. Many cache owners like to go through their logs to check for armchair logging. If the log is salvagable then they migh twant it back.

  19. If it's not obvious who owns the property, and it's not really developed, then City Parks & Recreation (or the local equivalent) is probably a good place to start inquiring. I know of a cache nearby, which I haven't gotten around to doing, that specifically mentions being placed with permission from the city Parks & Recreation department.


    Well she said she left the container at the front counter of the Pubilc Works office. Don't know if the Parks department falls under the Public Works Juridiction (probably does) but I think asking for permission from Public Works is probably the way to go.


    I was mostly giving general advice rather then advice about that specific hide. :)


    I know. :) It was more a thinking out loud type of statement then a critique of your advice. Didn't have time to go get the container today, hopefully tomorrow...

  20. The City of Everett is very aware of and welcoming to our game. They even have pages on their website about finding caches in and around the area. It would be nice if all cities were so welcoming. :D


    Who said anything about this particular cache being located in Everett? :o:D

    Obviously I have superior sleuthing skills in order to have been able to narrow the possibilities! :lol:


    ooooo... you must do puzzles, can you teach me? :P;)


    (said with tounge firmly planted...)

  21. This is not supposed to be about "barb/counter-barb" any more than it is supposed to be about the OP's cache maintenance. This is supposed to be a celebration and congratulatory thread that you seem to insist on stomping all over.

    Aw, c'mon, you're not that naive. Threads here don't run a prescribed course.


    Did you take a look at the "Sawmills" cache? You might like it.


    I did. Nice... I've tried to stay ou of this as I can see both sides but it does appear that there is some sort of agenda at work.


    That, my friend, is my only agenda. Others here may have agendas of their own that I don't know about, but even if that is the case, I don't feel this is the thread to bring them up in.


    Understood, I don't disagree with you. The agenda to which I was referring was not yours however... :ph34r:

  22. This is not supposed to be about "barb/counter-barb" any more than it is supposed to be about the OP's cache maintenance. This is supposed to be a celebration and congratulatory thread that you seem to insist on stomping all over.

    Aw, c'mon, you're not that naive. Threads here don't run a prescribed course.


    Did you take a look at the "Sawmills" cache? You might like it.


    I did. Nice... I've tried to stay ou of this as I can see both sides but it does appear that there is some sort of agenda at work.

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