Gan Dalf

Douglas Adams said it first, but it rings true in my life experience...... The person who most wants the power is the absolute last person you should trust with it. Just sayin'..... Could keep going. They all wanted the power. This one didn't, and he was assasinated for his trouble...

Link for reference: Listing Guidelines that Apply to all Geocaches Yes, one of the most favortited caches in the world (GCE02C) is a cache in New Orleans where you have to go inside a business and tell the Security Gaurd why you are there. They then call the CO on the radio and someone will come down to greet you and take you to the cache. One of the great things about this cache is that they will take you out on the roof of the building where you are treated to a sweeping view of the French Quarter and the Mississippi Delta. It was placed in 2003, under the current guidleines I don't think it would be allowed today... I would go back and reread the Descriptions before coming to any conclusions, but my guess would be that the cache is located someplace outside. On the other hand, there are a few Library caches about (not usually considered commercial in nature), but again, reading through the Description may be the only way to sort it out definitively. Good luck! While this is, indeed, in the guidelines, keep in mind it wasn't always the case. There are caches out there that were placed before this went into effect. I have found caches in museums, retail stores, bowling alleys, and more. As the above states, read the cache description for info. Also, in all cases, keep an open mind and take the age of the cache into account. The guidelines have evolved over time so not all caches out there are in compliance with the current rules.

You sure that's not the mean?

I understand your thought process on this one. We usually have one DNF log posted and we will edit it to add another date if we return. We think the CO gets a notice on a log edit, but we have never had one of our finders edit (we think). Just to make sure others notice, because FobesMan's response got buried in a quote, COs DO NOT get notified of a log edit. Only new logs (whether a find, DNF, note, etc.) generate an email. Thanks, that's what I get for trying to post a quote on the forums using my phone...

Edits do not get sent to a CO I understand your thought process on this one. We usually have one DNF log posted and we will edit it to add another date if we return. We think the CO gets a notice on a log edit, but we have never had one of our finders edit (we think).

Agreed that the stats would be skewed on a per cacher basis but the OP asked what the average D/T rating is for all caches. I still think it is pretty close to 1.5/1.5, maybe a little higher.

I still think you're just not asking the right people.

As someone that has a large area arond my home coords cleared I think I can say that it would most likely be somewhere around 1.5/1.5. thats the most common rating that I have seen on peoples profiles.

One of my earliest TB's disappeared at an event not even a month after I released it. It was gone for over 3 years when someone logged that they had it but had no idea for how long or where they got it. They had been at the event and were occaisional cachers that moved across the country. They vowed to put it in another cache soon. That was 5 months ago and they still haven't dropped it anywhere.

I have yet to meet someone in my area who sees it different and I have 145 FTF's. Every person who is looking is eliminating a spot and therefore helping find it. You have met one now. I have participated in the group FTF before but it is one reason why I hardly ever rush out and get one anymore. I don't think I am alone in that regard. If you are polling people that are at the group FTF event then I think your sample is slightly skewed. I am sure that if you put up a poll on the NW forums that you would find a slightly different result to your survey... Let me rephrase for clarity. Among those who enjoy the FTF side game to some degree, I have yet to meet someone in my area who sees it different. If I took that poll how many would be folks who argue it somehow doesn't exist because there is not a rule specifically enumerating it. But that is just it, you are calling "those who enjoy the FTF side of the game to some degree" all those that agree that the FTF should be shared and love going out for an FTF to find several other people there searching. That's not true. I enjoy the FTF game "to some degree", I just think that it is silly for 4, 6 or 8 poeple all to claim it just because they were there. One other person, OK, two, maybe, but it's gotten so out of hand around here that it's just ridiculous. I know one particular person that shall remain nameless, that once claimed an FTF on a cache because the person who found it before the other even arrived was still standing there with the cache in his hand chatting to the CO. He said if it hadn't been put back yet that he could still calim Co-FTF. There are plenty of others around here that would enjoy going out for the occaisional FTF if they didn't think that 10 other people would show up at the same time all expecting a "Co-FTF".

I see this as two seperate issues. one is the group FTF, the other is simply a find. If you are there with a group of others and someone else found the cache and signed your name then I see nothing wrong with claiming hte find. Have you never gone out with a group of four or five cachers or participated in a cache machine? In those situations you wold not always be the one to find the cache in it's hiding spot but you were still there helping, go ahead and claim your find. Now the FTF is another story. If someone else found it and you are not comfortable saying you were the FTF or Co-FTF then no sweat, don't claim it. The FTF game is a side game anyway and so it doesn't really matter.

I have yet to meet someone in my area who sees it different and I have 145 FTF's. Every person who is looking is eliminating a spot and therefore helping find it. You have met one now. I have participated in the group FTF before but it is one reason why I hardly ever rush out and get one anymore. I don't think I am alone in that regard. If you are polling people that are at the group FTF event then I think your sample is slightly skewed. I am sure that if you put up a poll on the NW forums that you would find a slightly different result to your survey...

I'm a bit confused... so was the e-mail from a cacher who is a cop that got called to check out a spot where an old lady saw you looking for a cache that the cop/cacher had already found? How did he know it was you or are you really that weird looking?

Good for you!

Some people play that way. Personally, I think you should log every visit. If you DNF it the first or second or third or whatever, just because you found it on a subsequent visit doesn't erase that DNF. Logs have dates for a reason. One day you couldn't find it, the next you did. Both logs stand on their own merits. I'm sure there will be some that disagree, no, actually I know there will be...

If you had simply reported him to Groundspeak to begin with, they could have reinstated your log, locked it so that he could not delete it and reminded him that ALR's especially those that are designed to keep TB's in his prison are against the guidelines. the result probably would have been the same (the archiving of his cache) and would have saved you much grief and allowed you to keep the smiley...

True... but they could have also assumed that by doing that their pruprose would not be served. By threatening to remove future replacments of the cache they make it clear that they are serious about keeping cachers away. Apparently their attempt to communicate is unwelcome. At least they tried. I can see how you could have misudertood what I was saying. I agree, I'm just saying that simply taking it and not saying anything probably would not suit his purpose.

True... but they could have also assumed that by doing that their pruprose would not be served. By threatening to remove future replacments of the cache they make it clear that they are serious about keeping cachers away.

Actually he says he might go in from time to time and update the scores without being asked to...

I'd just like to thank Magnum-DI for a very entertatining thread. I've enjoyed reading it and knew it was going to be good after I read the first three words of post #8. Thanks you!

I appriciate the quick reply. I completely understand those issues and that is all I needed to hear, thank you. I would have posted to the original appeal but it has been closed and so I didn't know where else to post it and knew reviewers monitor the forums and could answer my questions. Feel free to close the thread.

I've read the other threads and understand that Earthcaches take longer and that there seems to be a reviewer shortage right now but I am really wondering why it has to take as long as it has. I think a little background would be helpful: I submitted an EC a month ago and it was reviewed 3 days after I realeased it. After a couple of exchanges between myslef and the initial reviewer, it was archived. I appealed that decision and a week later got a reply that I had to make some changes in order for my submission to be considered. I followed that reviewers suggestions, made some changes, and released the cache again. More than a week went by before I heard back from the reviewer again. Finally they replied and said that some additional changes still needed to be made. I made those changes, as requested to the letter of what they asked for, and released the cache again. It has now been another week and I still have not heard back as to if further changes are needed. I understand that EC's are different and that the review process can take longer but why does it have to take a week or more to get it reviewed again after changes are made. It seems to me that it should be much quicker and easier to see if change requests are carried out then it took to do the initial review. Does a cache get bumped to the bottom of the review queue if a change request has been made by a reviewer? Other than the initial reason I appealed the denial, I've been willing to make whatever changes are necessary to get it published, I'd just like to know if there are additional changes that are needed in a more timely manner... I even wrote directly to the reviewer letting them know that I had made the cahnges as requesated and it was ready for them to review again. Is there a reviewer that can take a look at my submission and see if more changes are needed. It is going to be another nice weekend and it would be nice if they cache was available for people to enjoy. Thanks

Fantastic baseball on TV last night. Where you able to see it there? (I know, off topic, but your avatar suggests you enjoy the game) Yes, I did see it... :lol:

Why would you say that? the rules very clearly state that favorite points change and scores will be updated: It says they'll change doesn't say anything about them only going up...

+1 If many experienced cachers are having trouble finding a supposedly EASY cache, then it's 99.9% likely gone. AND in this case the CO has the responsiblity to check it out within a reasonable time frame. I've seen caches go for 9 months+ like this with NO action from the CO! Like I said, I would only suggest posting a Needs Archived IF the cache was supposed to be an EASY find AND many experienced cachers couldn't find it. I wouldn't see the need to go searching myself, what a WASTE OF TIME!! That doesn't mean that someone that has never even looked for it should post a Needs Maintanence or Archive request on the cache page. Here is one example of where a cache was there the whole time even though it had a string of 13 DNF's over close to a year from cachers who had collectively found more than 28,000 caches, including myself. I posted a Needs Maintanence after I DNF'd for the second time but I would never do that unless I had actually gone to look for the cache... Great example, but surely in the 12 months that the cache sat idle the CO should have simply checked on his cache and made sure it was accessible/still there etc as per the express requirements of placing the cache. Absolutley, which is why I posted the NM log and said waht I did in it. The CO had moved away, was no longer able to maintain the cache and had posted a request for someone to adopt it on his cache page but apparently he either never followed through or no one took him up on it. It's amazing how many people have found it since those 13 consecutive DNF's over a year although there have been 2 or 3 hiking events along the trail it is placed on over the summer. It's a popular hike with one of th eoldest caches in the state at the end of it...