outta here

OK. To start with, I agree with most of what you said, but found the above quote interesting. The top of half dome is neither pristine nor secluded. It is a pretty tough environment (mostly granite with some vegitation) that is _way_, _way_ _way_ overtaxed by the traffic it gets. There is a well defined trail the whole way which is tough and not disneyland-safe. But, hoards of folks make it to the top every year. A Geocache on the top would not increase traffic in any significant way, as this would be a 4+ terrain (most cachers would self select out at this point) A trip to Yosemite valley requires significant advanced planning (just to gett a campsite) And the trail/cables are already running pretty much at capacity (or over capacity) for much of the summer. Anyone who would summit half dome for a cache would summit half dome without a cache. Once on top, there are plenty of places where a single cache would have zero impact on the environment. (or at least no discernible impact above that of the crowds that are there already) The biggest problem a top-of-half-dome cache would cause is that in the middle of the summer there would be virtually no way to retrieve it without getting muggled by all the folks milling around. A bigger problem with caching in Yosemite Valley would be that someone would place a cache off trail. I'm not always against off trail caches, but in an environment that is already stressed to the limit (like most popular national parks are), it would be a disaster. I wouldn't be afraid of the half dome cache. I would be afraid of the cache in the middle of mirror meadow.

That explains EVERYTHING. I was wondering how folks could justify claiming smilies when they didn't sign the log, or open the cache, or find the cache, or even go on the hunt. I now understand the thinking behind it. Thanks.

The strong opinions that always come up on this topic surprise me. I understand some of what is behind "find == sign the log." The point at which you have the log in your hands is the point at which you have unquestionably overcome all the challenges of the cache. However, I still can't get past the feeling that "find" means "find," not sign the log. I sign cache logs for the same reason I sign summit logs: Because I earned the right, not because failing to sign the log means I didn't climb the mountain. What is a find? Well, I know one when I see one. A find is when I have met all the challenges of the cache. If I know where the cache is, but can't get near enough to get it, it isn't a find. If I see the cache with a critter on top, and can't manage to get it, it isn't a find. If I know where the cache is, but can't get it for fear of being muggled, it isn't a find. If I coordinate with a "team" so that I go after cache A while they go after cache B, I haven't found cache B. I've opened an ammo can to find ... an unexpected puzzle inside the cache, so unless I open a cache, I can't know whether I have met all the challenges of the cache. That means signing the outside of an unopened cache isn't a find. So, my definition of "find" nets out to be almost identical to the "find == sign the log" crowd, but can differ slightly. If I find the contents of a cache strewn around with no container in site, it is a sad day, not a find. Even if I find the log so I can sign it, the cache is gone. It seems wrong to slap a smiley face on my log. If I am so taken with pawing through the contents of a cache that I forget to sign the log, or if there is no writing implement, so I skip signing the log, I've still found the cache. (again, if I don't sign because of some puzzle or challenge in the cache, it isn't a find.) If I am traveling with a friend and am present at the find (I could have been, or maybe was the one to pick up the cache) but stand around snapping pictures while the other person signs the log, It is a find. Do others split these hairs differently? Sure. Do some of them cheat? Sure. Do others miss the spirit of things (without doing anything that could be called cheating)? Sure. Do others simply see things differently, and we are all having fun? Sure. This is supposed to be fun, right?

My understanding is that many (all?) of these were in 4.0.2. The only information I have seen as far as new in 4.0.6 is that it can deal with bigger SD cards.

So, I saw this yesterday.. and came within an inch of ending up with a brick'd GPS After installing 4.0.6, my GPS restarted, and went right to: "the basemap is gone" panic mode. After doing this I found a reference that said that these guys occasionally lose their basemaps when you upgrade the firmware. I rolled back to 4.0.2 in case that might help, but the basemap was really gone. Funny story. It is possible to find the larger, more detailed, more up-to-date basemaps for the other Meridians fairly easily, but the old small basemap that these require are evidently top secret. It was looking like the only way to bring it back was a trip to Magellan. Fortunately I finally found the basemap I needed in an unexpected place. I installed the basemap and was good to go. But it was a long day.

I wouldn't touch a snake, but I have found a foolproof method of getting them to slither off into the brush. All I have to do is reach for my camera, and off they go, never to be seen again. Now bees ... I won't mess with bees.

I stumbled across this site the same week Fry's was clearing out the MeriGreen for $99. It was fate.

I'm thinking that with enough of the right helpers...

Well, you might want to switch back.

Well gosh. I don't see ANYTHING about "you must sign the log to report a find." It even uses that weasel-word "usually." Wow, talk about taking things out of context. Usually you take an item and leave an item. The 'usually' is associated with taking and leaving items -- AND enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book -- as opposed to entering their experience. It's an accomplishment enough to locate the cache -- is referring to the fact that you don't have to take and leave anything.... NOWHERE in there does it say that logging is optional. You should be a politician... From cache police to grammar police. OK. If you want to group the "usually" exclusively with the take and leave part, then the sign the log part is missing a "you" (either that or the words "Usually you" are in the wrong order) Reading the sentence the way you want to is CHEATING. CHEATING CHEATING CHEATING!!!! Ummm... Maybe I'm making too much of that. Maybe I should admit that there are multiple readings of that sentence that will not result in the destruction of western civilization. Yes. I can agree to that without losing face or destroying geocaching, Sorry Ready.

See. This is why some of us were so confused. I thought that if you signed the log, then you signed the log, but that if you found it, then you found it. Now I see that if you signed the log, that means you found it. But, does that mean if you find it, that means you signed the log? I guess I'm still confused. OTOH, maybe we could acknowledge that the details of logging in a group are neither spelled out at the geocaching site, nor are they as self evident as some here seem to be insisting. Lets see what new cachers are told: from http://www.geocaching.com/articles/finding.asp: Well gosh. I don't see ANYTHING about "you must sign the log to report a find." It even uses that weasel-word "usually." I agree that logging a find when you wern't physically present at the cache location when the cache was opened or the log was signed is cheating.* However, inventing rules in the forum and calling anyone who doesn't adhere to the invented rule a cheater seems out of line. * OK Here is a hypothetical. You are on a group cache. The last 10 yards involves a significant climb up some rocks that one or more of the team can't do. Is it cheating for the whole team to log the find? Is it cheating to pass the logbook down to the team members that can't get up the rocks? Just so no one misunderstands. I would not call that cheating even though there was some aspect of the cache that some of the team have not completed. I would tend to write off the different to "this is a game folks."

No. I was expressing surprise that something else was more controversial, not saying that team caching was a problem. In a forum where folks work themselves into a lather over whether it is really a find if you didn't sign the log personally and just let a teammate sign for the team, I would expect apoplexy over someone logging a find if they didn't find it themselves. Just to be perfectly clear. I do not think that team caching is anything other than good, But then, I don't thing log signing style is anything to get worked up over either. (nor do I think the whole "I trade/I don't trade" thing is anything other then personal preference, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms) I don't doubt that there are cheaters, and there are some actions that are clearly beyond the boundaries of geocaching. I'm just saying that there might be a little leeway for folks to disagree about some of the details of how it is done without the need to declare each other cheaters.

There are a couple of different situations covered by a lot of the conversation of late and it would seem worthwhile to call them out. It has been suggested that there are teams out there where every member of the team is logging a find when any member of the team finds a cache (and signs with the team name). I have no idea whether this has actually happened, but we can think about it happening. It would seem that this behavior is out of bounds. If we want to be blunt, we might even use the word "lying" or "cheating." Fine. It has also been suggested that there are teams where everyone on the team goes out and together they find the cache, but they just have one person sign the log with the team name. Again, I have no idea whether this has actually happened, but we can think about it happening. While we might argue that this behavior as "incorrect" or even "impolite," and might wish that expectations could be clarified so that we are all on the same page, "lying" or "cheating" seems a bit harsh. It seems more like a gray area within the bounds of "the rules don't (and shouldn't) spell out everything" and "lets' cut each other some slack." I would think that the very idea of team caching (where a person logs an "I found it" when really all they did was go along for the hike and say "pass the log" after someone else did all the finding) would be more controversial than log signing etiquette amongst those present at the find. Of course I would be wrong about that. just $0.02 (and that won't buy enough gas to get to the next cache)

Wow. If a community freely puts its time and money into establishing ... oh, I don't know... let's say: geocaches, would it be wrong for a company that put significant energy into building a top notch listing of those free geocaches to charge a fee? Would it be right if some of the listings were free for all and some only available to paying customers? In the end, folks that don't like the terms of the GPL really shouldn't use it. You want money? Reserve all rights. You want props? Use the old BSD with it's obnoxious advertizing clause. You want what the GPL offers? use the GPL. Whining later that someone is following the terms of the license, but nothing more sounds a bit silly.

OK. I was getting all confused because Jeremy snipped a quote that simply said someone was putting caches on a google map. That would seem to be fine and good so long as the resulting map was for the person's own internal use. (Does the whole emphasis on "internal use" mean we have to eat the cache printout page once we are done with them? (Otherwise I shudder to think what "internal use" requires)) Going back to the original post however, I see a link where I can access this map. Publishing/sharing/externlizing this map is the no-no. Right?

The maps API and Google earth are different things.

That would be Earth: 1 Google: 0

Ok. So I'm replying to my reply here, but I hadn't actually tried the *.loc import before my earlier post. Import a *.loc file and the waypoint(s) get added to the map. (cool) It labels with the Waypoint name, not the cache title. (can't have everything I guess) Click on a waypoint and a little bubble opens with a hyperlink. Click on the hyperlink and a browser pane in the Google Earth window opens to the page for that geocache. I think I'm going to like this.

I've just been playing with it. In addition to being totally addictive eye candy, it looks fairly useful. You have to pay a small amount ($20/yr) for the GPS connectivity, but even the free version can import *.gpx and *.loc files. My area has 1 meter color orthophoto coverage, and the tilt mode is just amazing. The images line up very well with the elevation data that they are using. (unlike Terraserver DOQs and DRGs). Flying over familiar trails in tilt mode looks amazingly correct. It looks like some of the features I would like to use (primarily high resolution printing) are only on the $400/yr version. But even the $20/yr version has better than screen resolution printing and the drawing tools. It is not clear whether you can save your drawings into shapefiles, gpx files, or something like that so the drawing tools may just be a toy. You need a fairly recent computer with a good graphics card and a broadband connection, but with those in hand this looks at least fun and maybe useful.

I have a foolproof way to keep them away. When I remember my camera, there will be no snakes. When I leave it at home, I see them quite often. I'm always glad to see a snake. They are interesting animals, and much less dangerous when you know where they are. Diamondbacks are pretty common around here. Once I even saw a Rosy Boa. I was rattled at only once, when I was moving so fast I was past the snake before either of us saw the other. Most of the time the encounter is simply an opportunity to see an amazing animal. I'm much more afraid of ticks.

quote:Originally posted by Team BooneDog:Make that "the guy who wore size 11 shoes Funny, as a demographic, "guys who wear size 11 shoes" don't have a particular tendancy load themselves with he-man outdoorsman stuff and wander around in dry tinder during Santa Ana conditions.

quote:Originally posted by GeoGryffindor:I keep wondering, and I am sure I know the answer, but do you think that the hiker in California that accidentally started one of the forest fires ... Make that "the hunter in California that purposly started the biggest, costliest and deadliest of the Southern California fires to signal a helecopter."

Magellan Meridian "Green" $89 Charger + NiMHs (enough to share with the camera) ~$40 First aid kit ~$10 (and yes, it has been an "associated expense")

quote:Originally posted by trippy:I held my GPS in the window for an entire post 9-11 flight. No comments. Noone knows what the heck it is. Most airlines specify they are okay in their documentation. I went to San Jose recently on SouthWest. On the way there I had a middle seat. I tried, but my Merridian couldn't find even a single sat. On the return trip I made sure to get a window seat, and held my up GPSr up to the window while we were still at the gate to see how reception was going to be (answer: good enough as long as it was held right at the window, nothing otherwise) As I was waiting to see if I was going to get a fix, the lady in the center seat leaned over and said in a confidential voice: "You're at the San Jose Airport." I've actually had a number of folks recognize my GPSr for what it is in a variety of situations.

quote:Originally posted by SpongeRob: quote: Cool, please make a "creepiest cacher" stat, and make me #1! That's probably a little too subjective of an area to rate. Not to mention all the competition.