woodsters

quote:Originally posted by mtn-man:Perhaps we should not allow caches placed while traveling first. Oh, we already do that don't we. This is a point I have been thinking about but have not mentioned. I placed a lot of caches locally in my county. No one else was doing it really and I wanted to get some caches out for people to find. Recently I slowed way down. A few new cachers placed some and now I have some caches to find. These areas that are 1000 miles away from you will eventually have caches placed by people who live in the area and can maintain them properly. Why not be patient and allow the area to grow naturally and be developed by locals? [This message was edited by mtn-man on July 03, 2003 at 08:01 AM.] Would that be like the caches you did in Texas and DC? The whole point of this was not something that I wanted or planned on doing. It was a hypothetcial situation as to what Coast Cachers did with somewhat difference. If someone wantsd to place a cache in a different town, they are going to do it. Bottom line. And until there is a system to prevent or help prevent it, you will never know. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Czech, did you keep the "COPY" tag? That's for you too keep with your records. Other than that, I'm not sure if they keep a record of bugs they sent you in the mail. Contact Groundspeak and see if they do. If they can give you a list of the TB's you purchased then you can do a process of elimination. Why do you want to put a different tag on it, if it already has one? Did you drop the TB in a cache? If so, see who picked it up and if they have a record of the number or where they placed the bug. If you activated the bug then it should show up on your cache page and/or profile, if I'm correct. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Options are good. But I would recommend one style (can be either plastic or metal). That way they are immediately known what they are. As far as printing your own, then everyone would be doing it and it would be very saturated with bugs. I think the cost helps control it a little. People can always make their own hitchhikers and place their own way of tracking it. Many do it with the geocoins and tokens. Just make a message board of your own and make a topic for each one. Of course you won't know the actual mileage that the bug traveled like the GC travelbugs. But they an get an idea. And before people start saying they don't know how or can't afford a message board. There are places like EZboard that allows you to make one for free on their server. Plus many places that supply free webspace have guestbooks, which is another alternative. There were some good points brought up about the plastic bugs. Another one is what about bugs that sit in a cache in the north that gets extreme cold temperatures? Are they going to get brittle and break? Plus the plastic colors may fade if exposed to sunlight. (not sure why they would be exposed to sunlight, but I'm sure some are). Plus people who pick up travel bugs an throw in their car. Will the summer heat melt them or break them down any? I would say to let the purchaser attach the tags to the bugs in whichever means they want. Of course the chain supplied with the metal ones automatically give them something to attach it with, but nothing says they have to use it as I'm sure many don't. The instruction tag is good option. Perhaps that should be available for download to print out and the owner can attach in a way they want. Many already have such a thing. A standard one from Groundspeak would be nice. Or just single tags that could be purchased when the metal ones are ordered. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Why not require that a vacation cache be virtual only and get rid of the word vacation. It's obvious alarms set off when that word is spoken on here...lol Then make virtuals a seperate type of find than physical caches. Make another line on the profile pages as Virtual Caches - Found/Hidden (or better word of maybe placed). They would be similar to benchmarks, but people can take them as they may. Then you could take virtual caches out of the rule that they can't be placed within 528' from a physical. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Point well put Dinprophet The fact is, that it's a free world and sport. So people are going to do what they do. If it didn't happen, then we would all be driving Fords. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Mopar and keystone you bring up good points about the distances and the fact that if a virtual is made somewhere within the prescribed distance then it messes up the chance for a physical. Perhaps someone that wants to place a physical within that distance of a virtual that is already there can contact the owner of the virtual and ask if they mind if they archive their virtual so they can place a physical and make mention of the virtual in the cache page? There is no way for approvers to allow or disallow on that rule unless they know the exact area themselves. I would say virtuals and physicals are 2 different things. And that they should be looked at differently. Virtual is more or less saying hey look at this cool spot. Perhaps virtual finds should not be counted with physical finds. Make them another category, like benchmarks. I don't mind the 528' rule as far as physicals go. The only problem I see with the whole idea of people should only place caches in areas within a prescribed distance to their house will limit the possibilities of the sport growing as far as placing physical caches. A few years down the road, people just joining the sport will not be ableto experience placing a cache and maintaining it due to the oversaturation of caches placed. Perhaps a cap on cache placing per person should be instilled? But then those who are the veteran expert cache placers will not like that and not like being able to place another cache. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by solohiker:Why is woodsters making such a case for vacation caches? Is he just trying to promote his vacation website with his signature tag? He has not placed any caches!@!! Place a cache woodster and find out what is involved in maintaining a cache, before you climb on a soap box. I suggest this thread be killed. First of all if you read my post, I'm not defending vacation caches as you are interpreting them to be. My whole statement on this entire thread was that the topic of this thread should of not of been a vacation cache. I think there is a difference in a vacation cache and a cache in an area you frequent and know better than a lot of other cachers. You are correct, I have not placed any caches. I have not made any plans to do so and you will be the first to know when I do. My point on the whole matter was that Coastcachers was note merely dropping a cache and running. They put one in an area that they know very well. I'm in a similar situation(not cache wise). I moved over 1000 miles away from my hometown. I've only have heard of geocaching since I've been up here. I've looked at at caches online for my hometown. They seem to be lacking inspite of the size of the town (2nd largest in Georgia). You read the logs and you can tell that the people are not from the area. Matter of fact many that visit the caches are visitors in the area. My point was of a hypothetical nature. If I was there and placed a cache properly, and it was maintained properly, then what is the big deal? I'm not taking anything from anyone. That would be like telling people they could only place one cache, because you need to give others a chance. What about those 2 or 3 years down the road from today? If we all that attitude then there would not be any caches to place for anyone. My website is not a vacation website. It is an outdoors website. And just as many others post their URLs , I chose to do so. And don't start pointing fingers about numbers and who hasn't done what or who has. IV_Warrior: As many others have stated, even the veterans make errors on coordinates. It happens. If people don't find the intended object then the cache can be archived. If a person that knows what it is and posts the correct coordinates then it can help. It happens with physicals alot. Physical caches can be moved as well. I would think that a virtual should be something that is not moved. If something happens then it gets archived. Bloen Customs: your statement of "Hey, if it's your "home away from home" or hunting camp, or summer home, I say go for it. I'm not opposed to people placing in areas they frequent and are familiar with. " is exactly what we are talking about. Sidewinder: Was not what we were referring too. Coast Cachers: I'm sorry, but it seems a lot of people don't get the idea and remain to stay one sided in a box with many sides to it. I applaud you for your ability to remain straight forward with the whole thing. Myself, I've bitten my tongue enough on this and have done a lot of deleting while answering this message. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

I wouldn't post their names. Just post some examples.. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

They sure would be great to hear. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by Mopar:They have logged in since posting that find, as recently as yesterday. If it were my cache, at this point I would email them a copy of the log, and then delete it. Explain to them why you deleted it, and tell them they are more then welcome to relog it as a find. Ditto! Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Keystone, it's good to hear that type of stuff. Keep feepding us situations...they tend to be humorous... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

sounds like an idea. The only thing is that when you go and open a cache, you have no idea what is a signature item necessarily. I suggest marking htem as such if they aren't marked like a geocoin, token or card. A group around here leaves slinkys (Team Slinky), but I know that. Some people coming through may not realize that. I would suggest they print out some address labels that has their team name on it or something saying it's a signature item. You never know where the sport will end up. Someones collection of others signature items may be worth something one day. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

LOL Brian! Just Visiting is a lot better than Vacation for sure.... Anyone else think of a better term? Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

I would remove the posting..as you stated it looks bad on there, when there's no reason. I would go ahead and do it because there may be a lot of people wanting to cache this holiday weekend and might by pass it for that reason. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by FullOn:What is this irresistable urge to drop a cache everywhere you go? Is is the same thing as peeing on a tree to mark your territory? Leave caches around where you live and can maintain them. Don't put so many out that you can't possibly maintain them. What's so hard about that? I don't think the subject of this topic intended it to be like (dropping caches everywhere you go). What would be the requirement of the length of distance from your residence? One could easily place one 5 miles from their house in an area they never go to. They may know it's a good area for a cache, but never go there at all. Then there could be someone who works in another town 50 miles away or more and is in the area every workday. If they had a cache in both areas, which one do you think would get more attention? And as I stated before. People will cheat the system and make bogus accounts for the area if they want to put a cache in a certain area anyway that isn't local to them. Unless of course you implement a system like I described where they have to receive mail at an address. Then when getting approved on a cache, the cache has to be within a certain distance of that residence. The mail would have to signed and certain information put on it and returned to the GC approvers for verification. In order to get it going the person wanting to place the cache would have to send a SASE envelope with a copy of a form printed off the website. The approver would then in turn make notes or whatever they need to on it and place it in the SASE envelope. The person receives it and fills out necessary info and mails it back. Once the approver gets the form back, they place the person as approved for that location. Then later the approver checks with maps that it is a certain distance of their residence. Specifics could be worked on but it is an idea that places a little more strictness on those trying to cheat the system. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by IV_Warrior:You're pulling that out of you *$$ just to try and defend them, and you know it. There is no way of knowing that they know the area better than ANY of the locals, let alone MOST of them. And if they don't live in the area any more, and didn't have the time to FIND any caches, how likely is it that they took the time to check on local regulations related to geocaching? There are regs and permits and stuff coming up NEW all the time as the sport grows, and it's important that these be followed, so the hobby isn't BANNED entirely from areas. Vacationers, and yes even though the USED to live there they are vacationers now, coming in a dropping caches run the risk of undermining all the hard work of the local cachers to get solutions that work well for both geocachers and land managers. I fully support the ban on vacation caches, and for that matter, think mtn-man has a good idea with the test before cache submission...make it include questions on local regulations/permits. Nothing to see here, move along. Read what happened with them a little more in depth. They now live in California. They are from pennsylvania. I'm sure they know areas of where to place caches, than a lot of folks that live in the area. Never the less, perhaps they didn't check more into placing the cache before they did it. Read the example of what I stated. I've lived in Augusta, Georgia for over 20 of my 34 yrs. From the looks of the number of caches in that area and the online logs, I can come to the fact that most of the people that post there do not know a lot about the area. I just left there the 31st of December and moved over 1000 miles north to Massachusetts. I have never heard of Geocaching before. Even running an outdoors website for over a year, I hadn't heard of it until about 6 months ago. No matter if you are a local that has lived in an area your entire life or part of your life, you still have to check what the rules and permissions are before placing a cache. Just because your mail is not delivered to that location or local zipcode, does not mean that you can not check out the rules, regs, and permissions. The topic of dropping a cache, then trying to register it with the intent you aren't going to maintain it or have it set to be maintained is wrong and shouldn't be done. Just because someone does not find a cache in a local area does not mean that can't place one. As in some areas, there really aren't any or very many. But if I know of places to put a cache and the rules permit after research of course, then there's no reason. With that said, I must also state that a cache should not be placed and registered if they have no way of going to check on it or maintaining it. I stated before about using the message board to find people to take a cache for themselves that you want to place. Find someone willing to do that ahead of time. Place the cache and let them know about it. Let them confirm it and the coordinates. Let them register it. It's their cache. They are responsible for it. Or if you have someone (land manager, friend or relative) that maintain it for you with their contact info on it as Jeremy stated, then it can be under your name. Why would people do that? Why do people like to place caches in the first place? Why do people like to place caches but not go and search for them? Everyone has their own thoughts and goals. As stated before, the term VACATION CACHE should not be used in reference to this type of situation. A vacation cache is one purely on a "vacation" more than likely in an area that they have either: never been to before, don't have plans on necessarily returning, and somewhere they can not keepa cache maintained. i.e. if I decide to go Disneyworld and want to place a cache and drop one there. I have no reason to go back there. It's not an area I frequent. I know nothing about the area. As far as the exam thing. It's sounds good. But, people are going to cheat on it. Perhaps search for the answers here before placing a cache. Just as people can cheat and make their #'s go up. Having it have questions on local regulations is too much trouble. Every area has different regulations. Many land managers work differently. If I remember correctly a post on the message board from a park manager that said that the state or area left it up individually to each manager. So you would need 1000's of different tests with 1000's of different answers. Why not allow a vacation cache to be only a virtual? Someone stated that a virtual has to be a place that a physical one can't be placed at. If true, then let vacationers post one of a beautiful spot or special monument with some significance. If virtuals are pushed t othe side to make priority for physical caches, then so be it. But a virtual is something that doesn't have to be maintained. Think out of the box... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by welch: quote:Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:What about vacation caches as virtuals? Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors [url=http://www.woodsters.com Virtuals are getting harder to get approved. By gc.com guidelines they are not supposed to be placed where a physical could go, which your not suppose to place if you can't maintain. http://brillig.com/geocaching/http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/22008_1700.gif http://www.gpgeocaching.com/ I would think it would not be a virtual if you could place a physical cache there. Perhaps a statue or monument, or something that is something to see. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by team travel pig:poor coastcachers... man - you had no idea this would happen, did you? unfortunately you set up a popular soap box here... perhaps a local will adopt it soon, and all will be well again. still, it's interesting to me how some immediately assume the worst when anyone owns up to an error... give these peeps a break. ___________________________________ who's got the pig? Excatly pig. People read the title and misinterpret the real subject of the matter. I believe some do not even read all the posts. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by BloenCustoms:Why, again, is it important that every cool spot be filled with a cache? I don't understand the mindset that drives people to place at a distance. If you never knew about the location untill you you found it while travelling, you probably dont know enough about the spot to put a cache there. We've all seen compelling new terrain, and scenic vistas (pun intended) while travelling, but do we really need to "claim" them for ourselves. Give the locals a chance, and don't mistake caution, and patience for apathy or lack of imagination. Why can't a vacationer take the time to find a multi stage or puzzle cache? Most of the more challenging caches in my (limited) experience have been among the most scenic and rewarding. If the goal is to blast through the area finding 1/1's to jack up find counts, then puzzles might slow you down. But who wants a tourist to place another boring 1/1 in an area that deserves much more creativity and the attentive maintenance of a cacher who has an intimate knowledge of the place? http://angelfire.com/pro/bloen/images/eyes.GIF "The fertilizer has hit the ventilator" Bloen, read what we are ferring to. We are not talking about a place that they think is cool that they come upon. We are talking places that they know better than most of the locals. Places they have lived most of their life, but no longer. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Go to http://www.therangerdigest.com . This guy tells you how to make your own walking stick with a survival kit built in it. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

There was a travel bug that we picked up out of a cache called "Curious George - Rock Collector". It was a little curious george doll with a back pack on it. A great place for a log book. Also saw a travel bug on the website that was a log book with the TB tags on it. What about vacation caches as virtuals? Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by motoXman:Funny timing on this post, just yesterday I accidently stumbled upon an "adult oriented" geocache site in a search for "geocache". Don't worry, I'm not gonna post a link, I'm sure that would start some kind of war here. (and the site is pretty lame anyway) It seems they feel they have gotten around the issue of minors getting the coords off the net by making puzzles out of the caches...you have to fill in the blanks of the coords by getting the numbers from inside various bars/clubs/over 21 establishments and the caches must be in "remote" areas (not in parks etc..) Brings to mind another post..."what will geocaching be like in the future" hmmmmmmmm...... someday we'll look back on all this and plow into a parked car. I'm sure someone will make a website of some sort that requires proof of age, as far as the internet goes, to keep those underage out. The only problem I see and it has been mentioned is the fact that someone might stumble across the cache accidentally. But, I have a view of that differently. Control your kids. They can see or find that stuff anywhere. The parents of their friends may have such stuff and the kids may be sneaking around finding it at their house. Or look at the Catholic church and what is in the news lately. Not sure if it's on the news everywhere, but here in Mass it is. So many bishops accused of molesting, which in my eyes and I'm sure many others, is far worse than them seeing something adult oriented. I think another point is, if you don't let your kids get on the internet, because of fear of them coming across adult oriented things. Then you should be keeping them close under your arms everywhere else, because its out there too. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:How about this... instead of having to have found 20 caches to be able to hide a cache, how about a test of 20 questions regarding the guidelines for placing caches!?!?! An open book test? LOL I'm sure people will have trouble doing that, just as people will have trouble marking finds on cache pages for 20 caches that they didn't step a foot out the door to go after. And then on top of that as one stated, there are some that have only a few caches near them within a certain distance and that would be harsh to say you gotta go far out to find the cache and make it a certain many. After all, how does caching get started in a certain area? I think there is some confusion still going on here. Coastcachers called it a vacation cache and I don't think that is the proper term for this instance that they were referring to. They were not talking about putting a cache in a place that they nothing about and leaving it there. They are talking about putting one in a place that they know better than the place they currently live more than likely. They did make the mistake of plpacing it and not already have a form of it being properly maintained and they realized that now and admitted to it and are trying to fix that. There's no way anyone is going to avoid it. As some have stated, some of the best caches are those that were placed by someone who doesn't currently live in that area. Does it mean that their cache is not taken care of? No. I think each cache has to be taken for what they offer, where they are and not by how far away the person lives away. What about Truck drivers who cache? A lot of them drive the smae route countless times and sometimes as far as 2000 miles away. Does it mean that they can't maintain a cache that far away? Not necessarily. The next thing is that GC is going to start asking for your address upon sign up. Then they are going to pin you out on a map and place a cordon of a certain distance. Then you aren't going to get approved for placing caches that aren't in that area. This may not be a bad idea. GC can send a letter that has to be signed and sent back. The process may take a while to do it, but it will give some benefit of the doubt. To waive costs of postage, GC could require that the cache placer send a self addressed stanped envelope. Then GC places the card or letter in the envelope and mails it back. Then once the owner receives it and signs it, they have to return it. Once GC receives it back, they are an approved cache placer in a certain radius of that area. This will keep the cache placers legite somewhat and the approvers will take into consideration that they are within a certain distance. I imagine certain circumstances could be looked as special and applied accordingly. How you like them apples? Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

I think a person with a bunch of hides and no finds has a better potential of having better hides than a seasoned finder. They think solely on one thing like hiding it. Where as the rest think about finding and then hiding... I hope that came out right or at least the way i intended it to... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

But we prefer this thread Cracker...lol I think the point being is what website and where do people turn to for Geocaching? Who has set the medium? Now for a different view. There's no reason why others can't have their own GPS treasure hunts. They can freely start their own website and start a system to track them and peoples finds. One day there will be these places. There will be high stake gambling ones, adult ones, commercial ones (like Magellans?) and etc. It's bound to happen and one day it will. This(Geocaching.com) has only been around for what, 3 years? The funny thing is that I've never heard of it till about 6 months ago. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com